Adam Dunn Trade rumor thread

[chw42]

Just from the top of the head, don't hold me to these names as I am going off of memory and throwing out possibilities.

 

-Ichiro Suzuki (already mentioned)

-Nick Markakis (already mentioned)

-Hunter Pence (already mentioned)

-J.D. Drew (at least in his younger, healthier days he was a stud)

-Ryan Sweeney (plays a great corner OF and a solid CF)

-Shin-Soo Choo (great arm, solid range)

-Justin Upton (Freak)

-Andre Ethier (Great arm, unsure about his range though. Probably better than Dye and Quentin though, but thats not saying much)

-Jayson Werth (Pretty sure he has good range, not sure about his arm though)

-Jay Bruce (Good range I think and solid arm)

-Rick Ainkiel (when healthy, great athlete)

-Carlos Gonzalez (not sure about arm, but I believe he has great range)

-Jeff Francouer (great arm, probably lacking in range)

-Brad Hawpe (not certain on this one, but IIRC, he has a great arm and pretty good range)

-Tyler Colvin (seems to be a very solid corner outfielder)

-Jason Heyward (stud)

 

And there are some CF's who could fit into this equation as well. If we got our hands on a STUD CF, we could move our very own very good CF in Alex Rios back to RF where he was likely one of the best in the league. Nate McLouth is mediocre in CF, but would likely be at least above average in RF.

 

You have to be kidding me with the bolded ones. If you think Hawpe can play CF, then Jermaine Dye can play CF too, how would you like that? Again arm doesn't mean s*** when you can't get to a baseball that isn't hit in a 5 foot vicinity of where you are standing.

 

Jeff Francouer has no range, Andre Ethier has no range, and Brad Hawpe is the worst outfielder in baseball when it comes to range. Ankiel also isn't the greatest CFer around. He has a great arm, but like I said, if no catch then the arm doesn't matter most of the time. Intimidation plays a part in base running, but catching the ball is far more important.

 

Outside of Ichiro, Sweeney, and maybe Justin Upton, none of the guys you listed would be good center fielders, they don't possess the range. They'd be at least mediocre, but nothing more.

Edited July 3, 2010 by chw42

[Jordan4life_2007]

You have to be kidding me with the bolded ones. If you think Hawpe can play CF, then Jermaine Dye can play CF too, how would you like that? Again arm doesn't mean s*** when you can't get to a baseball that isn't hit in a 5 foot vicinity of where you are standing.

 

Jeff Francouer has no range, Andre Ethier has no range, and Brad Hawpe is the worst outfielder in baseball when it comes to range. Ankiel also isn't the greatest CFer around. He has a great arm, but like I said, if no catch then the arm doesn't matter most of the time. Intimidation plays a part in base running, but catching the ball is far more important.

 

Outside of Ichiro, Sweeney, and maybe Justin Upton, none of the guys you listed would be good center fielders, they don't possess the range. They'd be at least mediocre, but nothing more.

 

Wait, he meant those guys can play CF? I thought we were talking RF? I know BearSox ain't that delusional.

[chw42]

Wait, he meant those guys can play CF? I thought we were talking RF? I know BearSox ain't that delusional.

 

He listed those guys as RFers with the ability to play CF.

[Vance Law]

More to the point, this is a list of players who by and large, we absolutely cannot get, or would have to give up our 3 best prospects. The couple names I see that we could potentially get with free agency coming up, Francoeur and Hawpe have a ton of downside. Namely, Hawpe is as bad as Dye in the field, and Francoeur does nothing well other than his strong arm in the outfield. His inability to draw a walk out Uribes Juan Uribe.

 

We'd absolutely love to have Jason Werth, if the Phillies don't manage to resign him. He will cost an arm and a leg if that happens and I bet we don't get him.

[BearSox]

He listed those guys as RFers with the ability to play CF.

I never said all those guys (although a few can) can play CF. I listed those guys as RF's with good range and arms.

 

Also, I said don't hold me to the list completely because I was going off of memory.

[Kyyle23]

I never said all those guys (although a few can) can play CF. I listed those guys as RF's with good range and arms.

 

Also, I said don't hold me to the list completely because I was going off of memory.

 

you said there are plenty of players with that skillset, he asked you for your list of said players, and that was the list you came up with even though you doubted a good portion of the players you put on the list.

 

Of course we would hold you to it, it was your point to prove and thats what you came up with.

[BearSox]

You're backtracking a little. You said a "ton" of range with a "cannon" for an arm. I assumed by that you meant great range and great arm. That just doesn't really exist at RF. Although your list is pretty good. By the way, Jay Bruce has a GREAT arm. Not solid. I watch a few Reds games here and there (and whenever they play the Cubs). And we already have a stud CF. But I know what you mean. Another stud CF would enable us to move Rios to RF and have a stud CF and RF.

Yeah, I over exaggerated a bit. I said it would be nice to have a RF with great range and a cannon arm, someone else stated that those players only play CF, and I stated there are plenty of them.

 

What I should have stated is that there are plenty of above average RF's with above average range and arms for their position, and who are a lot better than what we have had in RF the past couple seasons.

 

As for Bruce, thanks for clarifying. I thought he had a great arm, but wasn't sure, and didn't want to make too many assumptions.

 

As for Rios, without looking at the stats or anything, he seems to me to be a well above average defensive CF (stud when you take into account his offense this season) but truly a stud and one of, if not the, premier defensive RF. If we could get a CF who is even better defensively than Rios and then move Rios to RF, we'd have an OF that would cover a ton of ground, regardless of who we have in LF.

[Vance Law]

Thome with 2 more home runs today. OPS at .985. (long loud sigh)

[BearSox]

you said there are plenty of players with that skillset, he asked you for your list of said players, and that was the list you came up with even though you doubted a good portion of the players you put on the list.

 

Of course we would hold you to it, it was your point to prove and thats what you came up with.

He said most players with that skillset are all playing CF. However, I worded my response badly and I meant that there are plenty of players with good range and good arms in RF that don't play CF (regardless if they could play CF or not).

[BearSox]

You have to be kidding me with the bolded ones. If you think Hawpe can play CF, then Jermaine Dye can play CF too, how would you like that? Again arm doesn't mean s*** when you can't get to a baseball that isn't hit in a 5 foot vicinity of where you are standing.

 

Jeff Francouer has no range, Andre Ethier has no range, and Brad Hawpe is the worst outfielder in baseball when it comes to range. Ankiel also isn't the greatest CFer around. He has a great arm, but like I said, if no catch then the arm doesn't matter most of the time. Intimidation plays a part in base running, but catching the ball is far more important.

 

Outside of Ichiro, Sweeney, and maybe Justin Upton, none of the guys you listed would be good center fielders, they don't possess the range. They'd be at least mediocre, but nothing more.

We got our paths crossed here, and its mainly my fault for laziness and bad wording.

 

I came up with that list as RF's who have good range and good arms. Not as a list of corner outfielders who can play CF. I think the confusion happened when you said players with that skill set usually play CF, but I was just refering to RF's who have that skillset.

 

Nick Markakis seems to be a really good RF from what I've seen, with solid range. However, I doubt he would play a very good CF. For RF, his range is more than play-able. So, he has that skillset. However, his skillset does not play in CF.

 

I know I am rambling on, but you get what I'm saying?

[chw42]

We got our paths crossed here, and its mainly my fault for laziness and bad wording.

 

I came up with that list as RF's who have good range and good arms. Not as a list of corner outfielders who can play CF. I think the confusion happened when you said players with that skill set usually play CF, but I was just refering to RF's who have that skillset.

 

Nick Markakis seems to be a really good RF from what I've seen, with solid range. However, I doubt he would play a very good CF. For RF, his range is more than play-able. So, he has that skillset. However, his skillset does not play in CF.

 

I know I am rambling on, but you get what I'm saying?

 

Yeah, when you said what they possessed, I thought you meant arm and range, because that's what was brought up.

[WCSox]

He said most players with that skillset are all playing CF. However, I worded my response badly and I meant that there are plenty of players with good range and good arms in RF that don't play CF (regardless if they could play CF or not).

 

You said "a ton of range," which implies "great range." Guys like STL-era JD Drew and ATL/KC-era Dye don't fall into that category, IMO.

 

[fathom]

I fear that after nights like tonight, KW will be more willing to give in to the crazy demands of the Nationals. Also, in case you haven't noticed, Dunn has really struggled since we played them.

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm not even sure this lineup can be "fixed" with only one more bat. We might need two of them.

[BearSox]

You said "a ton of range," which implies "great range." Guys like STL-era JD Drew and ATL/KC-era Dye don't fall into that category, IMO.

JD Drew definitely fits into that category. Before injuries in his St. Louis days, he had a ton of range. He still is a very good RF. He doesn't have the same range he had when he first came up, but he makes up for that because he is actually a very smart OF and takes excellent routes and gets very good reads.

 

No one ever said Dye had a ton of range ever, but he certainly was a very good RF back when he did have some range. Hell, even when he was with us he still provided solid D until the final couple years when he lost whatever range he had left.

[BearSox]

I'm not even sure this lineup can be "fixed" with only one more bat. We might need two of them.

The question is, what helps this team more...

 

1 impact bat like Fielder or a lesser extent Dunn, or 2 mediocre-solid bats like LaRoche and someone else?

[iamshack]

I wonder if the Brewers would take Danks straight-up for Fielder.

[iamshack]

I've been scouring the rosters for hitters and there just isn't much out there.

 

It seems like with this being the "year of the pitcher," there are a lot more teams unwilling to give up bats.

 

Our options are going to be to give up a really good player to get a proven bat, give up two really good prospects, or to give up one good prospect for a mediocre bat.

 

Or else, of course, to stand pat and hope our own assets get it going.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I wonder if the Brewers would take Danks straight-up for Fielder.

 

Gallardo/Danks would immediately become the third best 1-2 combo in the NL behind Lincecum/Cain and Carpenter/Wainwright.

[caulfield12]

Of all those names listed, the only logical one (for the White Sox) is taking a huge roll of the dice on Upton's character and the coaching staff being able to control him.

 

It's not like Maddon is a difficult manager to play for, he's one of the best, better than Scioscia in my opinion because he doesn't micromanage and try to control every aspect of the organization, he spreads the credit around.

 

Rios, his major major major flaw defensively is on balls hit over his head....balls he has to turn his shoulder and just run to a blind spot and "find" the ball again...other than that, he's pretty close to flawless out there. It has happened to him at least 5-7 times this season already. Not errors, but plays that should be made IMO.

 

Sweeney just doesn't have the dominant range and speed/quickness for center, certainly he's a very good RFer though, same with Markakis.

[caulfield12]

Gallardo/Danks would immediately become the third best 1-2 combo in the NL behind Lincecum/Cain and Carpenter/Wainwright.

 

It all depends on how willing they are to fill in the DH spot and how Flowers and Viciedo hit (along with Beckham putting up a 750-850 OPS and Quentin at 850-950, those are givens, in terms of us having to get that production to be competitive).

 

In some ways, it's more logical to go for it all THIS YEAR rather than hoping on our prospects actually coming through and performing well at the big league level for the Sox.

 

OTOH, it's obvious especially with Jones something like 3 for 40-something and less and less likely to get the steady at-bats he'd need to dig himself out of this slump...that we don't have the resources or minor league talent to get two bats unless we pretty much want to go for broke and deal at least 2 of our top 3 prospects (not counting Mitchell/Sale).

 

I really think that the DBacks would at least ask for Flowers for LaRoche, and they don't need him with Montero, so that leaves them asking for Hudson or Viciedo in all likelihood, although they already acquired Brandon Allen and Chris Carter...not sure they'd take another 1B prospect from us.

Edited July 4, 2010 by caulfield12

[iamshack]

Gallardo/Danks would immediately become the third best 1-2 combo in the NL behind Lincecum/Cain and Carpenter/Wainwright.

You think they would consider it, considering Johnny has an extra year of service time left?

[hi8is]

You think they would consider it, considering Johnny has an extra year of service time left?

if i was the brewers - id say danks + hudson for fielder and some AA pitcher

[iamshack]

if i was the brewers - id say danks + hudson for fielder and some AA pitcher

Well, the reason you're even willing to consider that deal if you're the White Sox is because you have Hudson to replace Danks...

[Quin]

if i was the brewers - id say danks + hudson for fielder and some AA pitcher

 

I wouldn't do Danks + Hudson.

 

Maybe Floyd + Hudson, but definitely not Danks + a top prospect