witesoxfan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) Law was hired in 2002 by Ricciardi, so that was after all of the Wells/Sirotka stuff. I think it has more to do with him just having a disagreement with the Sox organizational philosophy in general. Law preaches that teams should build from within, making well calculated risks during the draft and bringing in players via international free agency and only when a team is close to competing should they go out and spend money in free agency or trade players away. Williams, instead, uses his minor league players to bring in major leaguers and has rarely used the Sox minor league system to directly impact the White Sox. Law, I would imagine, was pretty pissed off that the Sox won in 2008 considering the year before they looked like a franchise that was doomed to fail for 3-5 years. That is, he would be pissed off if he cared. I'm not sure he did. I looked around the web last night, and it seems as though there are several teams that believe that Law "hates" them, the Nationals being one. Edited July 13, 2010 by witesoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/12/mlb-pow...te-sox-on-rise/ FanHouse has ranked us #1...bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 10:37 AM) Law was hired in 2002 by Ricciardi, so that was after all of the Wells/Sirotka stuff. I think it has more to do with him just having a disagreement with the Sox organizational philosophy in general. Law preaches that teams should build from within, making well calculated risks during the draft and bringing in players via international free agency and only when a team is close to competing should they go out and spend money in free agency or trade players away. Williams, instead, uses his minor league players to bring in major leaguers and has rarely used the Sox minor league system to directly impact the White Sox. Law, I would imagine, was pretty pissed off that the Sox won in 2008 considering the year before they looked like a franchise that was doomed to fail for 3-5 years. That is, he would be pissed off if he cared. I'm not sure he did. I looked around the web last night, and it seems as though there are several teams that believe that Law "hates" them, the Nationals being one. So shouldn't Law hate the Yankees too? The Tigers? The Cubs? And it's not like Kenny hasn't acquired good prospects before (Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Alexei). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 10:59 AM) So shouldn't Law hate the Yankees too? The Tigers? The Cubs? And it's not like Kenny hasn't acquired good prospects before (Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Alexei). I don't think so. All 3 of those teams do make international free agent signings, and they draft players who aren't "safe" picks and go for home runs with most of them. Beyond that, all 3 of those teams use their minor league system at the major league level at a far better clip than the Sox do. I obviously can't say for sure why Law hates the Sox, but most of the info I got on his philosophy came from an interview he did prior to the 2008 season. It's a pretty decent read and lets you into Law's line of thinking, atleast a little bit. He's actually a pretty smart guy. http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2008/03/31...iter-keith-law/ (it's also awesome because at the end of the article, he is asked if Gavin Floyd will win 10-15 games during the season, and Law says no. Turns out Law was correct, because Floyd won 17) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Looks like Mr. Law dropped the ball on this one. Gavin Floyd – Will he win 10-15 games for the White Sox this season? No. Saw him this spring – the plus-plus curveball he had as an amateur appears to be gone. Fastball is very true, and he’s in the league’s most HR-friendly ballpark. Get a good chiropractor, Gavin. Gavin's 08 wasn't very good, but he's developed into a top flight pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 12:14 PM) Gavin's 08 wasn't very good Zwuh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 11:15 AM) Zwuh? I'm talking about this from a peripheral standpoint. Yes, he had a good ERA and all, but he was very lucky that year. Ever since then, it's been the exact opposite. Ace-like peripherals, bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 11:09 AM) I don't think so. All 3 of those teams do make international free agent signings, and they draft players who aren't "safe" picks and go for home runs with most of them. Beyond that, all 3 of those teams use their minor league system at the major league level at a far better clip than the Sox do. I obviously can't say for sure why Law hates the Sox, but most of the info I got on his philosophy came from an interview he did prior to the 2008 season. It's a pretty decent read and lets you into Law's line of thinking, atleast a little bit. He's actually a pretty smart guy. http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2008/03/31...iter-keith-law/ (it's also awesome because at the end of the article, he is asked if Gavin Floyd will win 10-15 games during the season, and Law says no. Turns out Law was correct, because Floyd won 17) So, I know the Sox' international scouting and development are terrible, but if we're talking Int'l free agent signings, the Sox have had some success at the top. Alexei, Viciedo and Iguchi come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I don't think so. All 3 of those teams do make international free agent signings, and they draft players who aren't "safe" picks and go for home runs with most of them. Beyond that, all 3 of those teams use their minor league system at the major league level at a far better clip than the Sox do. I obviously can't say for sure why Law hates the Sox, but most of the info I got on his philosophy came from an interview he did prior to the 2008 season. It's a pretty decent read and lets you into Law's line of thinking, atleast a little bit. He's actually a pretty smart guy. I don't doubt that he's a smart guy, but there's a boatload of wrongness in that article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 11:46 AM) So, I know the Sox' international scouting and development are terrible, but if we're talking Int'l free agent signings, the Sox have had some success at the top. Alexei, Viciedo and Iguchi come to mind. Law would be referencing a guy like Viciedo more than he would Alexei or Iguchi due to his youth and potential due to youth and potential. Alexei was a virtually finished product and just needed some refining defensively, and Iguchi was a completely finished product, and both were or are average players offensively. He is talking about spending money in Latin America on amateurs rather than bringing in players who are or are almost major league ready, and that is an area the Sox really struggled in over the past decade. Silverio was the biggest name signed and was given like $600k, and there was some fraudulent activities that went along with that, and they haven't done a whole hell of a lot otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 11:51 AM) I don't doubt that he's a smart guy, but there's a boatload of wrongness in that article. Naturally there is, and I think if he were to build a franchise, he would do it in a very conservative manner, whereas Williams goes about his business very aggressively and takes risks at times when he maybe shouldn't. Nothing has backfired too badly on Williams so far in regards to the risks he's taken, with Peavy maybe being the biggest one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Law comes from the school of Billy Beane, so you can bet that he will do it in the most conservative manner possible. He's the perfect GM of a small market club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 12:11 PM) Law comes from the school of Billy Beane, so you can bet that he will do it in the most conservative manner possible. He's the perfect GM of a small market club. Running a baseball organization like that constantly keeps you healthy and full of prospects and talent, but, in the past few years, it hasn't seemed to turn into any on field success, let alone any consistency with the major league product. The Twins are probably the best conservatively run franchise, but even they've gone out and made some trades and locked people up to long term deals that they would not have done in the past. You obviously can't be aggressive and stupid at the same time, or you get sent to the hell that the Houston Astros franchise is heading towards. But you have to take risks at some point, and you can't half-ass it, or you end up like the A's did after trading for Holliday last year or even Seattle with Lee this year (even if they did get a pretty damn good return on him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmithxc Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 11:37 AM) Law was hired in 2002 by Ricciardi, so that was after all of the Wells/Sirotka stuff. I think it has more to do with him just having a disagreement with the Sox organizational philosophy in general. Law preaches that teams should build from within, making well calculated risks during the draft and bringing in players via international free agency and only when a team is close to competing should they go out and spend money in free agency or trade players away. Williams, instead, uses his minor league players to bring in major leaguers and has rarely used the Sox minor league system to directly impact the White Sox. Law, I would imagine, was pretty pissed off that the Sox won in 2008 considering the year before they looked like a franchise that was doomed to fail for 3-5 years. That is, he would be pissed off if he cared. I'm not sure he did. I looked around the web last night, and it seems as though there are several teams that believe that Law "hates" them, the Nationals being one. Agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Doesn't Law also hate the Cardinals, and don't they run a similar philosophy? Also, for what its worth, if we built a decent farm, I'd love to see what Kenny could do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 12:22 PM) Doesn't Law also hate the Cardinals, and don't they run a similar philosophy? Ya I remember him not being too found of the Cardinals either. But hey.. LaRussa has White Sox ties. I guess he hates seeing teams who have won a world series (and another appearance from St. Louis) with that strategy. Edited July 13, 2010 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 01:22 PM) Doesn't Law also hate the Cardinals, and don't they run a similar philosophy? Also, for what its worth, if we built a decent farm, I'd love to see what Kenny could do with it. Kenny inherited the best farm system in baseball back in 2001. With it, he got Todd Ritchie, David Wells, Billy Koch, Bartolo Colon, Carl Everett, Roberto Alomar, Freddy Garcia, and Carl Everett again. There might be some more, but he didn't use it in the best of ways. Outside of Colon, Freddy, and the first year of Jurassic Carl, it was pretty much complete fail. The good thing is that none of the guys he traded turned out to be anything of importance. Really does tell you how hype of a farm system can turn into absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 01:24 PM) Kenny inherited the best farm system in baseball back in 2001. With it, he got Todd Ritchie, David Wells, Billy Koch, Bartolo Colon, Carl Everett, Roberto Alomar, Freddy Garcia, and Carl Everett again. There might be some more, but he didn't use it in the best of ways. Outside of Colon, Freddy, and the first year of Jurassic Carl, it was pretty much complete fail. The good thing is that none of the guys he traded turned out to be anything of importance. Really does tell you how hype of a farm system can turn into absolutely nothing. Pretty much all of those guys ended up being injury busts. Think of guys like Barcelo and Rauch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Dear BigSqwert, We have received your record request from directv.com. Please see the details of your request below: The Club on Channel 213 MLBNHD on 7/18/10 at 8:00 PM CDT You have set to record the entire season of this program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Only 5 more days! I got to find myself a stream of MLB Network... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmithxc Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 02:24 PM) Kenny inherited the best farm system in baseball back in 2001. With it, he got Todd Ritchie, David Wells, Billy Koch, Bartolo Colon, Carl Everett, Roberto Alomar, Freddy Garcia, and Carl Everett again. There might be some more, but he didn't use it in the best of ways. Outside of Colon, Freddy, and the first year of Jurassic Carl, it was pretty much complete fail. The good thing is that none of the guys he traded turned out to be anything of importance. Really does tell you how hype of a farm system can turn into absolutely nothing. Like you said, he didn't really give anything up for any of those guys. The worst trade was probably the Todd Ritchie one since Ritchie was incredibly bad and Josh Fogg and Kip Wells were at least serviceable (Wells had a couple of nice years at least). Whether through luck, skill, or some combination, Kenny has generally done a tremendous job of not giving up players that developed into guys we wish we hadn't given up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 QUOTE (asmithxc @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 06:41 PM) Like you said, he didn't really give anything up for any of those guys. The worst trade was probably the Todd Ritchie one since Ritchie was incredibly bad and Josh Fogg and Kip Wells were at least serviceable (Wells had a couple of nice years at least). Whether through luck, skill, or some combination, Kenny has generally done a tremendous job of not giving up players that developed into guys we wish we hadn't given up. It has been said pretty clearly that the Ritchie thing was done pretty much by Schuler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 QUOTE (asmithxc @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 06:41 PM) Like you said, he didn't really give anything up for any of those guys. The worst trade was probably the Todd Ritchie one since Ritchie was incredibly bad and Josh Fogg and Kip Wells were at least serviceable (Wells had a couple of nice years at least). Whether through luck, skill, or some combination, Kenny has generally done a tremendous job of not giving up players that developed into guys we wish we hadn't given up. And Fogg was the giant killer for the Rockies during that ridiculous stretch they had in 2007. If I recall correctly, he was constantly being matched up with a bunch of aces and continually came out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 08:39 PM) It has been said pretty clearly that the Ritchie thing was done pretty much by Schuler. It's been said thousands on times on this site alone. I think it's pretty fair to say that it will never actually sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 13, 2010 -> 09:28 PM) And Fogg was the giant killer for the Rockies during that ridiculous stretch they had in 2007. If I recall correctly, he was constantly being matched up with a bunch of aces and continually came out on top. It also helped that the Rockies offense was absolutely ridiculous during that stretch, Matt Holliday ended the year hitting .340 with 137 RBIs. Fogg didnt have to be perfect, just keep it under 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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