Peavy Done for Year; Marquez Up

[southsider2k5]

As I said to shack, I don't care it was a Sox pitcher on the mound, I would have thought that any particular pitcher had just blown their elbow out with the way he reacted.

 

He grabbed underneath his arm.

[Special K]

He grabbed underneath his arm.

 

 

Kerry Wood missed nearly two months for a similar injury w/ the Indians. Glad it's not the arm, but still not a dream scenario. Hopefully he simply tweaked the muscle and it isn't strained too much.

[greg775]

This could be like last year. Can we stay in the race til Peavy comes back?

Last year we acquired him and team sucked balls and was out of it when Jake came back.

You've got to figure he'll be out at least 6 weeks.

Cmon. He had the fluid, now this. He's out a while.

Hudson ... we NEED you to pitch well. Sweaty Freddy has been a great No. 5 but we don't need two No. 5s.

We need Peavy-type excellence.

[ScottyDo]

This could be like last year. Can we stay in the race til Peavy comes back?

Last year we acquired him and team sucked balls and was out of it when Jake came back.

You've got to figure he'll be out at least 6 weeks.

Cmon. He had the fluid, now this. He's out a while.

Hudson ... we NEED you to pitch well. Sweaty Freddy has been a great No. 5 but we don't need two No. 5s.

We need Peavy-type excellence.

For SO many reasons. This is our chance to get him to prop up his trade value enough to make him the centerpiece for a trade if JFP is back by the trade deadline. Otherwise, we need him to perform for more traditional reasons.

[justBLAZE]

Peavy said he actually felt discomfort in his last start in KC, it was treated but clearly did not work.

 

He sounded very upset, Guillen thinks he is going to DL.

 

"I know I don't feel very good at all. That's all I can tell you" "It's something up under my underarm. It goes down into my lat is where I have some swelling."

 

MRI tomorrow.

 

(Mgonzales, CST_Sox)

[The Ginger Kid]

I hope it doesn't end his season. if there's a bright side, that shoulder will heal too. Maybe we get him back in time to make a run in late August/September.

[caulfield12]

So we have a wide variety of diagnoses, anywhere from missing 1-2 starts, obviously the DL, to out for one month (I think Gonzales was the Giants' beat reporter back when Bill Swift was pitching, that's how that 4 week timeframe came up)...all the way to 6-8 weeks or the rest of the season.

 

I would just guess we're looking at early to mid August before he returns....so Hudson will have to start at least 4-5-6 times.

 

If he got totally shellacked, they would have to go with Torres, possibly Marquez but PROBABLY pick up someone like Dontrelle Willis and give him one last chance at turning things around.

 

I don't want KW to overpay for a 5th starter type just to be the "bridge" back to Peavy coming back into the rotation.

[greg775]

Missing Peavy is going to be a huge loss.

Our only hope is Hudson is lights out. Is Hudson capable of excellence right off the bat?

I know nothing about how he's doing.

What can we expect??? Tell us somebody.

[Quin]

This is good news.

[caulfield12]

Any of the numerous muscles and tendons that contribute to the movement and coordinated stability of these joints can become strained in a shoulder injury. The main muscles associated with the shoulder include the trapezius, latissimus dorsi, pectoralis major, deltoid, rotator cuff (SITS muscles), serratus anterior, and the biceps and triceps muscles. Manual testing can often quickly identify which of these muscles are weakened and painful upon contraction after an injury.

 

Shoulder Injury Mechanics

 

While shoulder injuries can be quite individual and complex, several common patterns have been identified:4

 

■an arm forced into external rotation and abduction (anterior dislocation and/or labrum tear);

■a blow to the anterior shoulder (can cause ligamentous tears resulting in dislocation);

■a fall onto top of shoulder (may cause a ligamentous tear resulting in AC joint separation);

■a fall on an outstretched arm (can result in AC separation, posterior dislocation, labrum or rotator cuff tear);

■sudden traction to the arm (momentary subluxation or brachial plexus traction injury); or

■sudden pain during activity or lifting (consider rupture of muscle/tendon or labrum tear).

 

Rehabilitation of Shoulder Sprains

Significant damage to one or more of the connective tissues of the shoulder can result in joint instability and chronic dislocations. Treatment of grade 3 or moderate-to-severe grade 2 sprains generally includes some external support (sling or taping) and restricted activities. Once the ligaments have undergone sufficient early repair, controlled passive motion can help to prevent the formation of adhesions (scarring in areas of movement). Resistance exercises are introduced to stimulate a stronger repair and to assist in remodeling. Isometric is progressed to isotonic forms of resistance, based on the patient's tolerance for joint motion. For athletes, regaining full stability may require advanced forms of exercise in the functional phase of rehabilitation, such as proprioceptive training and plyometrics. These maneuvers help to re-coordinate the sensory receptors and motor controls at the spinal cord (nonthinking) levels.5

 

Rehabilitation of Shoulder Strains

 

Injured muscles and tendons of the shoulder girdle may need a brief period of support and restricted activity, but controlled restrengthening should be initiated early. Elastic tubing is a safe and effective method of providing progressive resistance exercises.6 A very easy and effective program starts with a consistent isotonic exercise routine using surgical tubing equipment to perform external rotation. This is initially performed within a limited, pain-free range of motion, building to full range as pain subsides. Eventually, additional shoulder exercises should be performed as indicated, including internal rotation; flexion; extension; abduction; and adduction. This inexpensive rehabilitative program should initially be practiced under supervision to ensure proper performance.

 

Once good exercise mechanics and control are demonstrated, a self-directed program of home exercises is appropriate. As with sprain injuries, shoulder strains in athletes may require more specific, sports-performance exercises, such as eccentrics and plyometrics. Specific sports skills (such as throwing) may also need to be retrained.

 

[caulfield12]

Fister takes no-hitter into 7th, M's top Orioles Apr 20, 2010

Orioles OF Felix Pie will miss three months after doctors determined he has a torn left latissimus dorsi muscle. No surgery is required, just rest and rehab. (MSNBC -- Sports)

 

That was April 20th, he came back on July 6th, so worst case scenario (an actual TEAR, and not strain/sprain) would be 2 or 2 1/2 months.

 

Other pitchers/players with similar issues recently include Brad Penny, Kerry Wood and Gabe Kapler.

 

Sept. 20th

"Brett Myers boarded an airplane to South Florida last night, ready to rejoin the Phillies today and hoping to pitch by early next week. But a timetable set by the team was more conservative.An MRI in Philadelphia yesterday showed that Myers had suffered a Grade 1 strain of his right latissimus dorsi (back) muscle, a team spokesman said last night. The righthander is scheduled to throw a bullpen session on Tuesday, and the Phillies hope - but did not guarantee - that he will return by the end of the regular season.Reached by telephone yesterday afternoon, Myers told The Inquirer that he was optimistic about appearing in a game early next week."I think I could be ready by the homestand,""

Edited July 7, 2010 by caulfield12

[Lemon_44]

I guess Kenny could just take Oswalt's contract off Houston's hands along with Berkman's. Actually, even before this injury, i think KW would have interest in Oswalt if he could get Houston to eat some of the contract. The reports of trying to acquire Halladay in the spring tells me Kenny will pay for excellent starting pitching, to a point and that's why Houston would have to take on some of the contract. I know Freddy has been surprisingly good but that shouldn't preclude you from acquiring a guy like Oswalt. Plus, aren't Oswalt and Peavy buds?

[caulfield12]

Berkman and Oswalt??? You just added another $33 million in salary for 2010 and 2011 when we couldn't even afford Damon at $7 million.

 

Wow...wow...and wow. If Peavy going down has proven anything, it's the value of having young/affordable pitchers in the system available.

Not only would we take on unsustainable budget numbers for 2011, it would cost us Danks or Floyd, Santos, Viciedo and Flowers. And there's simply no guarantee those guys would enjoy great success in the AL, adjusting on the fly to a new league isn't the easiest thing to do.

 

 

 

Lance Berkman- 1B

 

- Rest of Season Salary: $7.25M

 

- Rest of Season Projection: .384 wOBA, 15.5 wRAA (~1.5 offensive WAR)

 

- Contract Status: $15M club option for 2011, $2M buyout.

 

- Notes: Berkman wants to be traded, but he has a no-trade clause and has stated that he won't accept a trade unless the receiving team picks up his option for 2011. Berkman will probably back off of those demands once he realizes no one wants to trade for him at that cost, but when you include his buyout for next year, that's close to a $10M cost for the White Sox to pick him up.

 

 

ROY OSWALT

Rest of Season Salary: $7.5M

 

- Rest of Season Projection: 3.54 FIP, 117 IP

 

- Contract Status: Owed $16M in 2011; $16M club option for 2012, $2 million buyout.

 

- Notes: He's still a great pitcher, although his numbers have slipped slightly due to aging. The Astros should want to unload him if possible and get some prospects in return, but that contract knocks the Rays (White Sox) out of the bidding. Paying a pitcher $16M next season? No thank you.

Edited July 7, 2010 by caulfield12

[Lemon_44]

I'd also say no to Berkman if he insists that option be picked up. For Oswalt, if the Sox could get Houston to pick up 4 mill, or so, I would have no problem with him making 12 mill from the Sox next year. This year seems to be shaping up as one of the worst trade markets i can remember. Players are either not available(Fielder), have too large a contract(Berkman), or have free agency looming(Dunn) and are just rentals. Plus, other than Fielder, none have really been playing at a high enough level to merit the asking price. We need those damn Padres to go on about a 15 game losing streak so AG becomes available.

[caulfield12]

I think it's more likely we'd be looking at a pitcher like Shaun Marcum, Jeremy Guthrie, Dontrelle Willis...hitters like Garrett Atkins, Wigginton, Miguel Tejada, etc.

 

Just don't see any way the White Sox can take on one of those contracts, let alone both. Berkman would be the much more likely, and logical, one of the two high-priced veterans.

 

 

•Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (Twitter link) hears that the White Sox aren't currently "heavily involved" in trade talk, but concedes that with Chicago, that could change at any moment

 

•According to AOL Fanhouse's Price, the Astros are looking for teams interested in Roy Oswalt to take on Oswalt's entire salary and give up three major-league-ready players. There have been indications lately that the Astros would be willing to pay part of their ace's salary in order to get better prospects, so it's hard to believe the team will stick to the demands described by Price.

[caulfield12]

I'd also say no to Berkman if he insists that option be picked up. For Oswalt, if the Sox could get Houston to pick up 4 mill, or so, I would have no problem with him making 12 mill from the Sox next year. This year seems to be shaping up as one of the worst trade markets i can remember. Players are either not available(Fielder), have too large a contract(Berkman), or have free agency looming(Dunn) and are just rentals. Plus, other than Fielder, none have really been playing at a high enough level to merit the asking price. We need those damn Padres to go on about a 15 game losing streak so AG becomes available.

 

BJ Upton would have been one of those "buy low" deals that KW loves to make for talented players, but no way now...because he needs Hudson in the major league rotation.

 

The only way to get Upton would be to trade Floyd/Santos....I don't think we can get away with packaging the likes of Flowers, Viciedo and Santos, although that's a possibility I suppose.

 

Flowers, Viciedo and Santos undoubtedly wouldn't be enough to get Cliff Lee, either.

[NorthSideSox72]

When I saw the injury, he went clearly for under his arm, and I remember thinking... please just be a strained lat. Thankfully, it appears that's the case. A strain to a large muscle is faster and more complete to heal than something in a joint, or with connective tissues. My fear was it could be his shoulder.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Also... I assume we'll see Torres or Hudson called up for pen duty until the ASB, Peavy to DL, then Hudson taking Peavy's slot after the break until he's back.

 

[Texsox]

Looking at the bright side, while average starting pitching is hard to find mid season, it is probably better to have a pitcher out for a few starts than several of our position players.

[Y2HH]

Looking at the bright side, while average starting pitching is hard to find mid season, it is probably better to have a pitcher out for a few starts than several of our position players.

 

If that winds up being the case.

[hawksox13]

Here's the way I'm trying to look at this: I'm assuming Jake is going to miss at least nine starts, which is about 6.5 weeks of being injured/unable to pitch. I'll also assume that the Sox would have won six of those nine starts based on how well Jake has been pitching lately. It'll come down to how many of those nine starts the Sox can win with Hudson on the mound.

 

With the way they've been playing I think there's a chance they can still win six out of those nine starts. It'll be interesting to see the Sox record in Hudson's starts while Peavy is out. But I'm with the group that thinks this will cost the Sox less games than if Rios or Konerko were to go down for the same six or seven week period. Time will tell, but with the way this team is playing right now I think they can withstand this injury. Now if it turns out to be season ending....well that's a different story. I'll hold my breath until the MRI results come back today.

[Lemon_44]

I'm not up on the farm system,like some, but is Hudosn our only legit tradeable pitching propsect? Are there any guys on the lower levels that could bring interest like that guy we traded in the Swisher trade? DeLo Santos i think was his name. Almost every trade scenario discussed has Hudson in it. You would think there has to be some other prospects that are a couple years away that have high ceilings.

[ptatc]

Fister takes no-hitter into 7th, M's top Orioles Apr 20, 2010

Orioles OF Felix Pie will miss three months after doctors determined he has a torn left latissimus dorsi muscle. No surgery is required, just rest and rehab. (MSNBC -- Sports)

 

That was April 20th, he came back on July 6th, so worst case scenario (an actual TEAR, and not strain/sprain) would be 2 or 2 1/2 months.

 

Other pitchers/players with similar issues recently include Brad Penny, Kerry Wood and Gabe Kapler.

 

Sept. 20th

"Brett Myers boarded an airplane to South Florida last night, ready to rejoin the Phillies today and hoping to pitch by early next week. But a timetable set by the team was more conservative.An MRI in Philadelphia yesterday showed that Myers had suffered a Grade 1 strain of his right latissimus dorsi (back) muscle, a team spokesman said last night. The righthander is scheduled to throw a bullpen session on Tuesday, and the Phillies hope - but did not guarantee - that he will return by the end of the regular season.Reached by telephone yesterday afternoon, Myers told The Inquirer that he was optimistic about appearing in a game early next week."I think I could be ready by the homestand,""

 

The way he reacted, it was obviously a muscle strain of some kind. It's rare that you tear something significantly with one pitch. It's usually a slow degeneration.

 

He has more than a Grade one strain, probably a two based on the reaction. The lat is a muscle that is on the back but has about a 7 inch long tendon that wraps around the bottom of the shoulder and attaches in the same groove that the biceps tendon passes through on the anterior portion of the shoulder. The function of the lats during the pitching motion is acceleration of the internal rotation toward the plate and to stabilize the anterior movement of the humeral head. This is nowhere near as bad as if he injured the deceleration muscles such as the rotator cuff muscles. One worry is that with the previous "fluid build up" is there an underlying instability in the glenohumeral joint that is affecting all of these different tissues. It's hard to tell by symptoms and I'm sure the medical staff is monitoring it.

 

He will probably need 1-2 weeks of healing then a buildup of strength, so he is probably looking at 3-4 weeks.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not up on the farm system,like some, but is Hudosn our only legit tradeable pitching propsect? Are there any guys on the lower levels that could bring interest like that guy we traded in the Swisher trade? DeLo Santos i think was his name. Almost every trade scenario discussed has Hudson in it. You would think there has to be some other prospects that are a couple years away that have high ceilings.

Hudson is the only pitcher in the Sox system that would be considered a high value prospect. There are some other names that might intrigue teams as part of a larger deal, or in exchange for some other low level prospect, but no one else that really stands out.

 

DLS was indeed sent to OAK in the Swisher deal.

 

There are a handful of potentially intriguing relievers in the minors, at the lower levels, but they aren't big value in and of themselves (Infante, Jones, etc.). As for starting pitching, the only guy in the upper levels (AA, AAA) who seemed to be high on the prospect radar was maybe Charlie Shirek, but his peripherals (K rate particularly) took a bad turn lately, and now he's injured. Carlos Torres might be a back end starter on some teams, he might have a little value, but not much. He's more likely a long/middle reliever in the majors.

 

 

 

[ptatc]

Any of the numerous muscles and tendons that contribute to the movement and coordinated stability of these joints can become strained in a shoulder injury. The main muscles associated with the shoulder include the trapezius, latissimus dorsi, pectoralis major, deltoid, rotator cuff (SITS muscles), serratus anterior, and the biceps and triceps muscles. Manual testing can often quickly identify which of these muscles are weakened and painful upon contraction after an injury.

 

Shoulder Injury Mechanics

 

While shoulder injuries can be quite individual and complex, several common patterns have been identified:4

 

■an arm forced into external rotation and abduction (anterior dislocation and/or labrum tear);

■a blow to the anterior shoulder (can cause ligamentous tears resulting in dislocation);

■a fall onto top of shoulder (may cause a ligamentous tear resulting in AC joint separation);

■a fall on an outstretched arm (can result in AC separation, posterior dislocation, labrum or rotator cuff tear);

■sudden traction to the arm (momentary subluxation or brachial plexus traction injury); or

■sudden pain during activity or lifting (consider rupture of muscle/tendon or labrum tear).

 

Rehabilitation of Shoulder Sprains

Significant damage to one or more of the connective tissues of the shoulder can result in joint instability and chronic dislocations. Treatment of grade 3 or moderate-to-severe grade 2 sprains generally includes some external support (sling or taping) and restricted activities. Once the ligaments have undergone sufficient early repair, controlled passive motion can help to prevent the formation of adhesions (scarring in areas of movement). Resistance exercises are introduced to stimulate a stronger repair and to assist in remodeling. Isometric is progressed to isotonic forms of resistance, based on the patient's tolerance for joint motion. For athletes, regaining full stability may require advanced forms of exercise in the functional phase of rehabilitation, such as proprioceptive training and plyometrics. These maneuvers help to re-coordinate the sensory receptors and motor controls at the spinal cord (nonthinking) levels.5

 

Rehabilitation of Shoulder Strains

 

Injured muscles and tendons of the shoulder girdle may need a brief period of support and restricted activity, but controlled restrengthening should be initiated early. Elastic tubing is a safe and effective method of providing progressive resistance exercises.6 A very easy and effective program starts with a consistent isotonic exercise routine using surgical tubing equipment to perform external rotation. This is initially performed within a limited, pain-free range of motion, building to full range as pain subsides. Eventually, additional shoulder exercises should be performed as indicated, including internal rotation; flexion; extension; abduction; and adduction. This inexpensive rehabilitative program should initially be practiced under supervision to ensure proper performance.

 

Once good exercise mechanics and control are demonstrated, a self-directed program of home exercises is appropriate. As with sprain injuries, shoulder strains in athletes may require more specific, sports-performance exercises, such as eccentrics and plyometrics. Specific sports skills (such as throwing) may also need to be retrained.

 

He had a strain not a sprain. The difference is that when looking at different tissues a sprain involves ligaments or passive tissue whereas a strain involves muscles or active tissue.

 

they are graded the same. usually on a 1 to 3 but some physicians use a 1 to 5 scale.

 

A grade 1 is a involves minor soreness and edema with no lose of motion and activity level. This is typically " advanced soreness"

 

A grade 2 involves a tear of up to 50% of the fibers with moderate pain and edema with up to 50% lose of painfree motion and activity must be limited.

 

A grade 3 is a near rupture of the tissue involved with significant pain and edema and an inability to do most any activity.

 

Rehab of the active vs. passive tissue is totally different and pretty well described in your paragraphs above.