Cliff Lee Traded to Rangers

[Jordan4life_2007]

Wow so it looks like Jesus Montero-David Adams-Zach McAllister for Cliff Lee.

 

We could have gotten Lee for Flowers-Retherford-Torres. Unbelievable. I don't get surprised when the Yankees sign top guys in FA, but when they dupe teams into these trades; it's pretty evident how good their front office is.

 

Except we're in no position to sell of valuable assets (Flowers) for a 3 month rental.

[GreatScott82]

Almost all championship squads rely on someone special coming up from the minors to contribute. I think most people fail to realize how special of a pitcher Daniel Hudson truly is. I am not going to panic at all. KW needs to use his resources on a slugger.

[pktmotion]

Except we're in no position to sell of valuable assets (Flowers) for a 3 month rental.

 

True but if you were to tell me that's all it would take to acquire Lee, I'd call you crazy.

[NorthSideSox72]

Wow so it looks like Jesus Montero-David Adams-Zach McAllister for Cliff Lee.

 

We could have gotten Lee for Flowers-Retherford-Torres. Unbelievable. I don't get surprised when the Yankees sign top guys in FA, but when they dupe teams into these trades; it's pretty evident how good their front office is.

Flowers is not nearly as highly-regarded as Montero. Also, NYY can afford to take on the full salary without flinching.

 

[kev211]

This coupled with the NBA news from last night...f*** sports.

[GreatScott82]

True but if you were to tell me that's all it would take to acquire Lee, I'd call you crazy.

All arrows are pointed to Minny leading the Lee derby. Lets focus on Adam Dunn. I think the Nationals will eventually lower the cost the closer it gets to the 31st. They are playing negotiation hardball which is the smart thing to do. Obviously they are not getting Beckham or Q.

[BigSqwert]

All arrows are pointed to Minny leading the Lee derby. Lets focus on Adam Dunn. I think the Nationals will eventually lower the cost the closer it gets to the 31st. They are playing negotiation hardball which is the smart thing to do. Obviously they are not getting Beckham or Q.

 

Where are you seeing this? Everyone else is reporting that a deal with NY is just about finalized.

[GreatScott82]

Where are you seeing this? Everyone else is reporting that a deal with NY is just about finalized.

Good call. . I didn't do my daily trade rumor check today. Wow- what a boost for NY. Yikes what a powerhouse of a team.

[GreatScott82]

actually we should be happy the Twins didn't get him!

[fathom]

This coupled with the NBA news from last night...f*** sports.

 

How is this not GREAT news? It went from Twins leading for him to him going to the Yankees. Please don't tell me you thought the Sox would contend for his services?

[Rowand44]

How is this not GREAT news? It went from Twins leading for him to him going to the Yankees. Please don't tell me you thought the Sox would contend for his services?

If you believed the Sox could compete for the pennant, this certainly hurts those chances.

[Rowand44]

We could have gotten Lee for Flowers-Retherford-Torres.

No.

[SoxFan562004]

If you believed the Sox could compete for the pennant, this certainly hurts those chances.

White Sox have to win their division first, this helps that a lot because he's not going to Minny and he won't be there when the Sox play Seattle this year in Seattle.

 

Also, the Yankees pitchers are going to have a s*** ton of innings pitched when October rolls around and their pen outside mariano isn't very good, so the starters are going to have to pitch 7-8 a lot...

 

are they the favorites? sure, but as I said earlier, it's July 9th, I'm glad he's not going to Minn and worry about him in October if they get there

[Rowand44]

White Sox have to win their division first, this helps that a lot because he's not going to Minny and he won't be there when the Sox play Seattle this year in Seattle.

 

Also, the Yankees pitchers are going to have a s*** ton of innings pitched when October rolls around and their pen outside mariano isn't very good, so the starters are going to have to pitch 7-8 a lot...

 

are they the favorites? sure, but as I said earlier, it's July 9th, I'm glad he's not going to Minn and worry about him in October if they get there

I'm not going to say I would rather have been traded to the Twins because that would just be stupid, in the perfect world he obviously would have been traded to the NL. Thing is, if we're going to win this year, we're going to have to go through the Yankees at some point, I'm about 90 percent sure of that now. Before this deal, if we added another bat I actually think we would have had a decent shot to knock them off if we got to the playoffs(they'd still be favored but I'd give us at least a solid shot), now we'd really be in some trouble if that matchup were to happen.

 

And I'm obviously getting way ahead of myself but that's the way I'm looking at it right now.

[SoxFan562004]

I'm not going to say I would rather have been traded to the Twins because that would just be stupid, in the perfect world he obviously would have been traded to the NL. Thing is, if we're going to win this year, we're going to have to go through the Yankees at some point, I'm about 90 percent sure of that now. Before this deal, if we added another bat I actually think we would have had a decent shot to knock them off if we got to the playoffs(they'd still be favored but I'd give us at least a solid shot), now we'd really be in some trouble if that matchup were to happen.

 

And I'm obviously getting way ahead of myself but that's the way I'm looking at it right now.

Yeah, I understand, NYY are going to be tough no matter what, but you can also argue, without looking at Lee and CC's splits, if KW is looking for the regular season and the playoffs they can now justify a RH bat as well

[pktmotion]

No.

 

Wow, No, what a sound rebuttal.

 

Montero's line after 4 seasons: .309/.368/.486/.855

Flower's line after 5 seasons: .281/.392/.490/.882

 

Flowers also has ~20 more HR/ ~60 more RBIs. Flower's(.63) BB/K ratio is better than Montero's(.53). The only thing Montero has on Flowers is the bloated over-evaluation of AL-East minor league systems. But back to the comparisons.

 

2B David Adams 3 seasons: .281/.370/.439/.809

CJ Retherford 4 seasons: .283/.336/.464/.800

 

CJ has 3 times as many HR and twice as many RBIs than Adams.

 

 

RHP Zach McAllister: 37-27 3.14 ERA 1.204 WHIP

Carlos Torres: 35-32 3.49 ERA 1.317 WHIP

 

McAllister is better than Torres here. But keep in mind Torres has pitched fairly decent when he was called up to the Majors.

 

 

Very similar trade packages; only thing is NYY prospects are ridiculously overvalued.

 

[SoxPride56]

Wow, No, what a sound rebuttal.

 

Montero's line after 4 seasons: .309/.368/.486/.855

Flower's line after 5 seasons: .281/.392/.490/.882

 

Flowers also has ~20 more HR/ ~60 more RBIs. Flower's(.63) BB/K ratio is better than Montero's(.53). The only thing Montero has on Flowers is the bloated over-evaluation of AL-East minor league systems. But back to the comparisons.

 

2B David Adams 3 seasons: .281/.370/.439/.809

CJ Retherford 4 seasons: .283/.336/.464/.800

 

CJ has 3 times as many HR and twice as many RBIs than Adams.

 

 

RHP Zach McAllister: 37-27 3.14 ERA 1.204 WHIP

Carlos Torres: 35-32 3.49 ERA 1.317 WHIP

 

McAllister is better than Torres here. But keep in mind Torres has pitched fairly decent when he was called up to the Majors.

 

 

Very similar trade packages; only thing is NYY prospects are ridiculously overvalued.

 

 

No.

[pktmotion]

No.

 

 

haha

[Kalapse]

Wow, No, what a sound rebuttal.

 

Montero's line after 4 seasons: .309/.368/.486/.855

Flower's line after 5 seasons: .281/.392/.490/.882

 

Flowers also has ~20 more HR/ ~60 more RBIs. Flower's(.63) BB/K ratio is better than Montero's(.53). The only thing Montero has on Flowers is the bloated over-evaluation of AL-East minor league systems. But back to the comparisons.

 

2B David Adams 3 seasons: .281/.370/.439/.809

CJ Retherford 4 seasons: .283/.336/.464/.800

 

CJ has 3 times as many HR and twice as many RBIs than Adams.

 

 

RHP Zach McAllister: 37-27 3.14 ERA 1.204 WHIP

Carlos Torres: 35-32 3.49 ERA 1.317 WHIP

 

McAllister is better than Torres here. But keep in mind Torres has pitched fairly decent when he was called up to the Majors.

 

 

Very similar trade packages; only thing is NYY prospects are ridiculously overvalued.

You know Montero is nearly 4 years younger than Flowers, right? He also doesn't have Tyler's history of PED use.

 

Also, CJ Retherford (the 25 year old, tool-less undrafted free agent that's bombing at 2 levels) is really a non-prospect and Torres (27 years old) is basically a guy.

 

You can't just ignore tools and age and pretend that it's feasible to compare all stats in a vacuum.

[NorthSideSox72]

You have to compete for the division first and foremost, as others have said. What happens in the playoffs is always a crapshoot. Lee not going to MIN is great. NYY is less than ideal, NL would be better, but NYY is still worlds better than MIN.

 

[Rowand44]

Very similar trade packages; only thing is NYY prospects are ridiculously overvalued.

Well there you go, there's my rebuttal. Stats aren't even close to the end all when it comes to prospects. No matter how you look at it, Montero is considered one of the better prospects in all of baseball and while Flowers is considered a solid spect, he's no where close to the level that Montero is at. It's that simple really, Montero is an elite spect and Tyler isn't. Not to mention, CJ and Torres really aren't prospects at all.

[NorthSideSox72]

Wow, No, what a sound rebuttal.

 

Montero's line after 4 seasons: .309/.368/.486/.855

Flower's line after 5 seasons: .281/.392/.490/.882

 

Flowers also has ~20 more HR/ ~60 more RBIs. Flower's(.63) BB/K ratio is better than Montero's(.53). The only thing Montero has on Flowers is the bloated over-evaluation of AL-East minor league systems. But back to the comparisons.

 

2B David Adams 3 seasons: .281/.370/.439/.809

CJ Retherford 4 seasons: .283/.336/.464/.800

 

CJ has 3 times as many HR and twice as many RBIs than Adams.

 

 

RHP Zach McAllister: 37-27 3.14 ERA 1.204 WHIP

Carlos Torres: 35-32 3.49 ERA 1.317 WHIP

 

McAllister is better than Torres here. But keep in mind Torres has pitched fairly decent when he was called up to the Majors.

 

 

Very similar trade packages; only thing is NYY prospects are ridiculously overvalued.

Retherford is a man without a position, he's a sub-par defender everywhere on the field, and probably a utility man if he makes the majors. There are also some makeup questions about him, and his attitude.

 

Torres is just not nearly the prospect McAllister is, without even getting into the age discussion. Torres is a nice guy to have in the system, but nothing terribly special. Best case he's a back of the rotation starter for a weak team, more likely he's a long or middle reliever.

 

I just saw K's post, and yeah, Flowers is not only much older and slower to develop, but also I believe Montero is considered a defensive wizard, and I don't think Flowers is anything like that.

 

[Rowand44]

Retherford is a man without a position, he's a sub-par defender everywhere on the field, and probably a utility man if he makes the majors. There are also some makeup questions about him, and his attitude.

 

Torres is just not nearly the prospect McAllister is, without even getting into the age discussion. Torres is a nice guy to have in the system, but nothing terribly special. Best case he's a back of the rotation starter for a weak team, more likely he's a long or middle reliever.

 

I just saw K's post, and yeah, Flowers is not only much older and slower to develop, but also I believe Montero is considered a defensive wizard, and I don't think Flowers is anything like that.

He's not, he's just like Tyler when it comes to that.

[Kalapse]

Retherford is a man without a position, he's a sub-par defender everywhere on the field, and probably a utility man if he makes the majors. There are also some makeup questions about him, and his attitude.

 

Torres is just not nearly the prospect McAllister is, without even getting into the age discussion. Torres is a nice guy to have in the system, but nothing terribly special. Best case he's a back of the rotation starter for a weak team, more likely he's a long or middle reliever.

 

I just saw K's post, and yeah, Flowers is not only much older and slower to develop, but also I believe Montero is considered a defensive wizard, and I don't think Flowers is anything like that.

Montero might end up being a DH.

[dyuen]

Retherford is a man without a position, he's a sub-par defender everywhere on the field, and probably a utility man if he makes the majors. There are also some makeup questions about him, and his attitude.

 

Torres is just not nearly the prospect McAllister is, without even getting into the age discussion. Torres is a nice guy to have in the system, but nothing terribly special. Best case he's a back of the rotation starter for a weak team, more likely he's a long or middle reliever.

 

I just saw K's post, and yeah, Flowers is not only much older and slower to develop, but also I believe Montero is considered a defensive wizard, and I don't think Flowers is anything like that.

 

Montero is considered a poor defender and will likely move off C.

CJ is not a prospect at all