Man defends property against 'illegal' thieves....

[juddling]

story

 

WHEAT RIDGE, Colo. - Admitted thieves are going free, while an elderly Wheat Ridge man is facing the possibility of spending the rest of his life behind bars, all, he says, for trying to defend his property and his life.

 

82-year-old Robert Wallace said in February that he looked out his window and saw two men hooking his flatbed trailer up to their pickup. He yelled at them to stop, but they sped away, stealing his trailer. He told police he fired two shots at the pickup.

 

Minutes later, police say 32-year-old Damacio Torres dropped 28-year-old Alvaro Cardona off at a hospital emergency room with a gunshot wound to the face.

 

Torres did not stay to talk with police, but they caught up with him later. According to court documents, he admitted he and Cardona stole the trailer.

 

Wallace did not want to talk on camera, but when we asked him if the two men threatened him he said, "They almost ran me over."

 

The Jefferson County DA's office said that neither Torres nor Cardona have been charged with anything at this point, even though Torres confessed to the crime. However, the homeowner, Wallace is facing twelve felony counts, including four counts of attempted first degree murder. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life behind bars.

 

Sources say Torres and Cardona are believed to be in the country illegally and both have an arrest record. Cardona's record includes public fighting and numerous traffic offenses like driving without a license or insurance. Torres's record includes agricultural trespassing as well as a 2005 arrest for aggravated motor vehicle theft for which he was given a plea bargain to a lesser crime. Sources say Torres is also under investigation for being part of a major auto theft ring.

 

Wallace is out on bond and due back in court in September to enter his plea.

 

Neighbors say the thieves should be the ones facing charges and Wallace should be given an award for protecting the neighborhood.

 

 

Now before the usual arguements come out of 'well..he didn't need to shoot if he wasn't directly threatened' or 'his life wasn't in danger' i have to ask at what point do we just let the thieves take what they want??? What if i were to catch a thief stealing my car, he sees me?? should he be able to ward off a shotgun shot with a wave and a smile???? If you are out stealing cars i think the presumed risk of being shot is pretty much understoon whether you are an illegal or not.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

There's no reason to shoot at them while they're fleeing. It's a legally, and imo morally, indefensible act.

 

I have to ask at what point do we value property, value things enough that we're willing to kill someone over them.

[NorthSideSox72]

Doesn't seem like Murder 1 to me, that's excessive, but I'd agree that he should be charged criminally to some degree for the shooting. IT was completely over the top and unreasonable.

 

Of course, the dudes who stole the trailer also need to be charged for larceny and evasion, and that doesn't seem to have happened yet here.

 

[Texsox]

I guess allowing people to shoot illegals and not legals would solve a problem for some folks. I'd prefer to treat each human life the same. Imagine hoards of hunters gunning down illegals. It would be heaven to some groups. I'll stop with the Kaperbole™

 

The problem with allowing him to try to kill these guys is there are legit reasons for someone to be taking his trailer. The guys may have been taking a repo. Then we have the property owner saying I thought they were stealing it. Allowing anyone with a gun to be judge and executioner for property crimes is something we probably do not want. What if he was saying to his neighbor, sorry that bullet went through your window and killed your son, but dammit, they were taking my trailer, you understand?"

 

I can't believe the thieves are not charged yet. Even to use the worse reason to charge them, the politics.

[NorthSideSox72]

I guess allowing people to shoot illegals and not legals would solve a problem for some folks. I'd prefer to treat each human life the same. Imagine hoards of hunters gunning down illegals. It would be heaven to some groups. I'll stop with the Kaperbole™

 

The problem with allowing him to try to kill these guys is there are legit reasons for someone to be taking his trailer. The guys may have been taking a repo. Then we have the property owner saying I thought they were stealing it. Allowing anyone with a gun to be judge and executioner for property crimes is something we probably do not want. What if he was saying to his neighbor, sorry that bullet went through your window and killed your son, but dammit, they were taking my trailer, you understand?"

 

I can't believe the thieves are not charged yet. Even to use the worse reason to charge them, the politics.

The fact that they might be illegal aliens is irrelevant to the shooting aspect of this, since there is no way the shooter could have known that one way or the other. These need to be looked at as seperate things. What the shooter did went well beyond reason and probably into the criminal (though I'd contend not Murder 1). What the thieves did was criminal as well. Further, the thieves were also in the country illegally.

 

[Y2HH]

I wish he hadn't missed and killed them both.

 

That said, what's going on here doesn't add up.

 

He fired 2 shots at 2 guys, yet is facing 4 charges of attempted murder? Bad math here, or bad reporting, either way, it's not adding up to me.

 

He said they tried to run him over, something they didn't dispute, but again what facts are facts and what is hearsay who knows at this point.

 

They confessed to their attempted theft the trailer, so this counts out any sort of repossession excuse, yet they were never charged.

 

The fact that they are here illegally does matter, because it means they shouldn't have been here to steal his property, and if they weren't here illegally stealing his property, this incident never occurs.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Y2HH

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Illegal or legal immigrants has no bearing on this whatsoever. They were on his property illegally trying to steal his possession. That alone is not just cause for the use or attempted use of lethal force. However, if they did indeed try to run this man over I have no problem with him shooting at them.

[Balta1701]

I wish he hadn't missed and killed them both.

You know...we used to get really angry when we saw posts like this.

[CrimsonWeltall]

He fired 2 shots at 2 guys, yet is facing 4 charges of attempted murder? Bad math here, or bad reporting, either way, it's not adding up to me.

 

It's a prosecutor having fun. Each shot could have killed either guy. 2x2 = 4.

[Y2HH]

You know...we used to get really angry when we saw posts like this.

 

Why, because of someones opinion on the matter is different than your own? Damn that American flag which grants such liberty!

[Soxy]

Why, because of someones opinion on the matter is different than your own? Damn that American flag which grants such liberty!

I believe it may be more about wishing death on a fellow human being which, I think some would agree, seems to fly in the face of human decency.

[Y2HH]

I believe it may be more about wishing death on a fellow human being which, I think some would agree, seems to fly in the face of human decency.

 

First, that's not a "fellow human being", at least, it isn't to me, so it's a good thing I have the free right to feel the way I do. We are talking about criminal pieces of trash, which I don't consider to be a fellow of, or on the same level of. Note that these thieves have criminal pasts/records, so again, not on the same level as a law abiding good citizen, not to me, not ever.

 

I'm all for human decency, to those whom deserve human decency.

 

These are animals, so fellows they are not.

[StrangeSox]

Keep dehumanizing and legitimizing killing!

 

You're begging to be godwin'd.

Edited July 9, 2010 by StrangeSox

[Soxy]

First, that's not a "fellow human being", at least, it isn't to me, so it's a good thing I have the free right to feel the way I do. We are talking about criminal pieces of trash, which I don't consider to be a fellow of, or on the same level of. Note that these thieves have criminal pasts/records, so again, not on the same level as a law abiding good citizen, not to me, not ever.

 

I'm all for human decency, to those whom deserve human decency.

 

These are animals, so fellows they are not.

So committing an illegal act makes you subhuman?

 

Which ones in particular deny us our humanity? Speeding? Embezzlement? Illegally entering a country? Theft? Battery? Assault?

 

What crime makes us dispensable?

[StrangeSox]

Just a hunch:

 

This isn't as much of a story if it's two white guys.

[Y2HH]

So committing an illegal act makes you subhuman?

 

Which ones in particular deny us our humanity? Speeding? Embezzlement? Illegally entering a country? Theft? Battery? Assault?

 

What crime makes us dispensable?

 

I don't care to drag this out with you, so I won't bother.

 

There is a difference between having a brain and not having a brain, and using common sense therein. So do yourself a favor and figure out which of those crimes makes you a piece of s***, and which of them doesn't. That's your answer. And the answer CAN and WILL be different for different people, and that's ok, too.

 

It's ok to think and feel differently than others...it really is.

[Soxy]

I don't care to drag this out with you, so I won't bother.

 

There is a difference between having a brain and not having a brain, and using common sense therein. So do yourself a favor and figure out which of those crimes makes you a piece of s***, and which of them doesn't. That's your answer. And the answer CAN and WILL be different for different people, and that's ok, too.

 

It's ok to think and feel differently than others...it really is.

Oh, goodness, you are rich.

[Y2HH]

Oh, goodness, you are rich.

 

I'm doing well, but I wouldn't call myself rich.

 

Thank you, though, your concern warms my heart.

 

And do yourself a favor, while your at it, educate yourself on the difference between misdemeanors/petty crimes and felonies. Because, believe it or not, there IS a big difference.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

Now, I don't mean to come off as a condescending prick...but all of these things you speak of, who decides what is illegal and not, what crimes are serious and what are not will differ greatly from person to person, depending on background, culture, where they're from, where their parents are from, the things that they've experienced in their lives, etc.

 

Pretending everyone should act just like you or think just like you is ridiculous. Pretending the way you think is the only "right" way is also ridiculous, and this also pertains to me, and my own opinions toward others. But in my view, it's ok for different people to think differently about such matters, as to some of us, these matters are of great concern, and to others, such things are so out of sight/out of mind, they don't really matter, but we just like to comment on them anyway. Some people will choose to see the best in people, even if there are people in this world that have no "best".

[BigSqwert]

Now, I don't mean to come off as a condescending prick...but all of these things you speak of, who decides what is illegal and not, what crimes are serious and what are not will differ greatly from person to person, depending on background, culture, where they're from, where their parents are from, the things that they've experienced in their lives, etc.

 

Pretending everyone should act just like you or think just like you is ridiculous. Pretending the way you think is the only "right" way is also ridiculous, and this also pertains to me, and my own opinions toward others. But in my view, it's ok for different people to think differently about such matters, as to some of us, these matters are of great concern, and to others, such things are so out of sight/out of mind, they don't really matter, but we just like to comment on them anyway. Some people will choose to see the best in people, even if there are people in this world that have no "best".

I thought killing people was universally frowned upon regardless of background, culture, where they're from, where their parents are from, the things that they've experienced in their lives, etc.

[Texsox]

Now, I don't mean to come off as a condescending prick..

 

The greats do without even trying. Congrats. Your superiority of being white comes through so well.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

The greats do without even trying. Congrats. Your superiority of being white comes through so well.

 

Wow...

[NorthSideSox72]

Illegal or legal immigrants has no bearing on this whatsoever. They were on his property illegally trying to steal his possession. That alone is not just cause for the use or attempted use of lethal force. However, if they did indeed try to run this man over I have no problem with him shooting at them.

The story says he saw them from his window, yelled at them, and fired as they fled. Then later he's quoted as saying they tried to run him over. Seems there are some inconsistencies in his story, so I tend to be skeptical of his claim that they tried to run him over. Needs further investigation. And I doubt the cops would have asked for all those charges if their investigation led them to believe he really was being threatened.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Now, I don't mean to come off as a condescending prick...but all of these things you speak of, who decides what is illegal and not, what crimes are serious and what are not will differ greatly from person to person, depending on background, culture, where they're from, where their parents are from, the things that they've experienced in their lives, etc.

 

Pretending everyone should act just like you or think just like you is ridiculous. Pretending the way you think is the only "right" way is also ridiculous, and this also pertains to me, and my own opinions toward others. But in my view, it's ok for different people to think differently about such matters, as to some of us, these matters are of great concern, and to others, such things are so out of sight/out of mind, they don't really matter, but we just like to comment on them anyway. Some people will choose to see the best in people, even if there are people in this world that have no "best".

Thinking differently is fine, expressing it is fine. But in this forum, under these rules, as we have stated generally AND to you directly before, it is NOT OK to threaten or wish for violence or death on others. You crossed that line. I'd leave this alone now if I were you, and stop playing the victim card, trying to make it out like others are suppressing your freedoms. This isn't the street, this is a privately owned website that has given you privilege to post as long as you follow certain rules. Please try to do that.

 

[StrangeSox]

Being stupid, committing a non-lethal, non-violent crime (and being brown!) means you've given up your right to life, I guess.