ptatc Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (clown baby @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:09 PM) Does anybody else really like the idea of keeping Morel long term? He's been praised for his defense, and that would be great to have an elite infield of Morel, Alexei, and Beckham. That would be spectacular. I've been a fan since he was drafted. The good defense with solid bat also fits into Ozzie's mentality so I would prefer they keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) Well, unless we take on all of his salary or something, I don't see what we could really offer Houston. Holmberg/Gilmore/Escobar? QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) Yup, same here. He has a wOBA of .356 right now, which would be like a 15 wRAA upgrade over Kotsay. There is a 2.7 difference in their WAR's right now, Berkman at 1.9 on the season after a horrid start, and Kotsay at -0.8... EDIT: Also tease tease tease http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19854580203 Edited July 29, 2010 by Knackattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:08 PM) I really disagree on that...because it strikes me that Morel is one of those guys who isn't hugely valuable in a trade (because he doesn't have superstar upside) but could be really useful to us (by being a reliable average bat with a good glove and cheap). I actually think it's quite the opposite. Morel's value right now is probably as high as it ever will be, and I think scouts are now leaning towards more safe players instead of the toolsy players. A team that is in rebuilding mode could highly value Morel for the same reasons why you said he provides value to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:13 PM) Well, unless we take on all of his salary or something, I don't see what we could really offer Houston. Holmberg/Gilmore/Escobar? There is a 2.7 difference in their WAR's right now, Berkman at 1.9 on the season after a horrid start, and Kotsay at -0.8... I would imagine with Flowers having a far better 2 months in the minors he still has some value, I think Astros are in salary dump, so I would expect them to take very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 02:16 PM) I would imagine with Flowers having a far better 2 months in the minors he still has some value, I think Astros are in salary dump, so I would expect them to take very little. I'm guessing that the org would want to hang on to Flowers right now, especially with AJ's struggles this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 05:13 PM) His OPS+ this year is 117, Kotsay's is 74... with that simple number you would be getting a 43% better batter... it would be a world of difference. Assuming that Kotsay actually lost his at bats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 We've shifted our focus from Dunn to Berkman according to my Phillies source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Berkman has a no trade clause. Would he WANT to play here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) We've shifted our focus from Dunn to Berkman according to my Phillies source. A tactic to scare Rizzo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) Assuming that Kotsay actually lost his at bats. Berkman is bigger, still switch hitty, plays 1st much better than Kotsay and has a better beard. I'm sure Ozzie would love him. Berkman has a no trade clause. Would he WANT to play here? 1st place team, great pitching and he just saw his buddy Oswalt leave, not a whole lot left for him in Houston. Edited July 29, 2010 by Knackattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:16 PM) I'm guessing that the org would want to hang on to Flowers right now, especially with AJ's struggles this year. I haven't looked at AJs BABIP for this year vs. career, but aside from that, I don't think KW would let that stand in the way if he thought Berkman could be a significant difference maker and Flowers was the deal breaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 05:18 PM) Berkman has a no trade clause. Would he WANT to play here? He basically asked the 'Stros to trade him earlier this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) Assuming that Kotsay actually lost his at bats. Even Ozzie knows that Berkman >>>>>>>> Kotsay. Plus, Berkman does everything Kotsay does, but better. Lance Berkman's actually pretty good over at 1B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 05:19 PM) I haven't looked at AJs BABIP for this year vs. career, but aside from that, I don't think KW would let that stand in the way if he thought Berkman could be a significant difference maker and Flowers was the deal breaker Especially considering the disappointing year Flowers has had, I don't see a big rush to holding onto him at all costs, like I think we ought to do with Huddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:19 PM) He basically asked the 'Stros to trade him earlier this season. But does he want to play here? I heard he'd only accept a trade to the Rangers earlier in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) Berkman has a no trade clause. Would he WANT to play here? If not we would rename the thread "Lance Berkman = Douche" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) We've shifted our focus from Dunn to Berkman according to my Phillies source. Your phillies source apparently has access to the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 05:19 PM) Even Ozzie knows that Berkman >>>>>>>> Kotsay. Plus, Berkman does everything Kotsay does, but better. Lance Berkman's actually pretty good over at 1B. Unless he takes Kotsay's roster spot, that'll cut down Kotsay's at bats but he'll still get plenty, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) Assuming that Kotsay actually lost his at bats. I know it's Ozzie, so I'm not doubting it could happen, but if it did, KW and Jerry would have to release Kotsay at that point, because Ozzie would be making a tragically bad decision and one he shouldn't have the option to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Looking at the splits, Berkman would be a good platoon player with Jones. Pretty much everything we want out of Kotsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:20 PM) Unless he takes Kotsay's roster spot, that'll cut down Kotsay's at bats but he'll still get plenty, somehow. Why wouldn't KW just DFA Kotsay after a Berkman pickup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (clown baby @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:09 PM) Does anybody else really like the idea of keeping Morel long term? He's been praised for his defense, and that would be great to have an elite infield of Morel, Alexei, and Beckham. That would be spectacular. I like Morel, and while it would be nice to keep him, he's just not that good of a prospect to be the sticking point between us making a major move and not. My gut feeling from the little of seen from Morel and all the stuff I have heard about him, he will likely be useful in the MLB. However, I see him as a guy who sticks around in the majors because of his glove, and his bat always holding him back. Really similar to Joe Crede to be honest (without the massive fan boy love, at least not yet). As for Beckham, his defense at 2B has left a lot to be desired. And while it is only his first year at 2B and he could improve a lot in the future, I'm not going to chalk him up as a stud defensive 2B until I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Not sure that Morel makes sense for the Houston with Wallace and Johnson manning the CI positions unless they see him as a fit at 2B. Houston needs pitching so maybe a package of Santeliz and Holmberg for Berkman and $2M to pay his buy-out at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:23 PM) Not sure that Morel makes sense for the Houston with Wallace and Johnson manning the CI positions unless they see him as a fit at 2B. Houston needs pitching so maybe a package of Santeliz and Holmberg for Berkman and $2M to pay his buy-out at the end of the season. We're not getting any money in a deal for Berkman if that's all we're going to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) Why wouldn't KW just DFA Kotsay after a Berkman pickup? That would make no sense at all, Kotsay would finally be in a role that he is best suited for, LH pinch hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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