Which Prospects Get Traded

[Quin]

Ok, with all the talks of trades, who does everyone think will get traded? Here's how I rank them.

 

Traded in Big Move Only: Daniel Hudson, Tyler Flowers

Traded in a Mid-Level Move/Second (or Third) Piece in Big Move: Brent Morel, David Holmberg, Miguel Gonzalez

Throw In in Big Deal: Carlos Torres, Kyle Bellamy, Jhonny Nunez, Brandon Short, Jon Gilmore, Eduardo Escobar, Brandon Hynick

 

Not Getting Traded: Dayan Viciedo (I think Kenny looks at him like he did/does Gordon), Jordan Danks (the bad K% and the fact that D1 hasn't signed on longterm), Jared Mitchell (injury), Trayce Thompson (injury) Josh Phegley (injury).

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok, with all the talks of trades, who does everyone think will get traded? Here's how I rank them.

 

Traded in Big Move Only: Daniel Hudson, Tyler Flowers

Traded in a Mid-Level Move/Second (or Third) Piece in Big Move: Brent Morel, David Holmberg, Miguel Gonzalez

Throw In in Big Deal: Carlos Torres, Kyle Bellamy, Jhonny Nunez, Brandon Short, Jon Gilmore, Eduardo Escobar, Brandon Hynick

 

Not Getting Traded: Dayan Viciedo (I think Kenny looks at him like he did/does Gordon), Jordan Danks (the bad K% and the fact that D1 hasn't signed on longterm), Jared Mitchell (injury), Trayce Thompson (injury) Josh Phegley (injury).

Brandon Hynick has zero value in trade.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I wouldnt trade Brandon Short as a throw-in. I'm interested in seeing how he might develop. I'd of course trade him, but if he was at "throw-in" level I'd try trading someone else first.

[Balta1701]

I wouldnt trade Brandon Short as a throw-in. I'm interested in seeing how he might develop. I'd of course trade him, but if he was at "throw-in" level I'd try trading someone else first.

The problem we have right now is...we have some guys who might develop into something useful and valuable as they get to higher levels...but most of those guys right now are basically throw-ins. The guys that we have that teams might want...we have places on the roster where we need them right now or at the worst within a year or two. The injuries in last year's draft class and the lack of investment in the draft have really killed this system.

 

If you're not willing to give up Hudson, Flowers, Viciedo, or Morel...basically everyone else is a throw-in at this point. And 2 of those guys are already in the bigs. And the 3rd...we really really need to have him in the hole next year in case AJ departs. And i have zero urge to give up Morel right n ow.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

The problem we have right now is...we have some guys who might develop into something useful and valuable as they get to higher levels...but most of those guys right now are basically throw-ins. The guys that we have that teams might want...we have places on the roster where we need them right now or at the worst within a year or two. The injuries in last year's draft class and the lack of investment in the draft have really killed this system.

 

If you're not willing to give up Hudson, Flowers, Viciedo, or Morel...basically everyone else is a throw-in at this point. And 2 of those guys are already in the bigs. And the 3rd...we really really need to have him in the hole next year in case AJ departs. And i have zero urge to give up Morel right n ow.

 

I understand that. But as such, any prospect deemed as a "throw-in" by another team doesnt carry as much value to them as they may to us in the future. I'm just saying unless a team overvalues Brandon Short, I would really prefer to see how he progresses in our system.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think Morel is the most likely to be dealt. He may be the centerpiece of a smaller deal or part of a package of a larger deal.

 

Hudson only goes in a deal for a starting pitcher. I see KW dealing him only if the starter being acquired is locked up through 2011.

 

If we're acquiring a true impact player, then Flowers will be part of the package IMO (along with Morel and/or Hudson plus others).

 

I think KW views Viceido as untouchable.

[spiderman]

Ok, with all the talks of trades, who does everyone think will get traded? Here's how I rank them.

 

Traded in Big Move Only: Daniel Hudson, Tyler Flowers

Traded in a Mid-Level Move/Second (or Third) Piece in Big Move: Brent Morel, David Holmberg, Miguel Gonzalez

Throw In in Big Deal: Carlos Torres, Kyle Bellamy, Jhonny Nunez, Brandon Short, Jon Gilmore, Eduardo Escobar, Brandon Hynick

 

Not Getting Traded: Dayan Viciedo (I think Kenny looks at him like he did/does Gordon), Jordan Danks (the bad K% and the fact that D1 hasn't signed on longterm), Jared Mitchell (injury), Trayce Thompson (injury) Josh Phegley (injury).

 

Wow. We have some bad prospects.

[Balta1701]

Wow. We have some bad prospects.

I think there's 2 things missing from our system. We have a handful of guys near the top who look like legitimate impact presences, or at least look like they've got a 50% chance or better of becoming them. Hudson, Viciedo, Flowers, Morel. We've got some talent buried at the lower levels as well, but that needs time to develop.

 

The 2 things we're missing are...1. the sort of in-between, talented, good number guys who have started to establish themselves but who are a while away that KW has been willing to trade before (i.e. Gio, DLS, Carter, Richard, etc.)., and 2., the 2009 draft class.

 

I still think the best bet here is to stand pat unless we get a steal by taking on salary. We don't have the bullets right now.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think there's 2 things missing from our system. We have a handful of guys near the top who look like legitimate impact presences, or at least look like they've got a 50% chance or better of becoming them. Hudson, Viciedo, Flowers, Morel. We've got some talent buried at the lower levels as well, but that needs time to develop.

 

The 2 things we're missing are...1. the sort of in-between, talented, good number guys who have started to establish themselves but who are a while away that KW has been willing to trade before (i.e. Gio, DLS, Carter, Richard, etc.)., and 2., the 2009 draft class.

 

I still think the best bet here is to stand pat unless we get a steal by taking on salary. We don't have the bullets right now.

The 2009 class was decimated by injury: Mitchell (first pick for us), Thompson (second), Phegley (supp)... add in Remenowsky as an NDFA who effectively had his first year in the system in 2009. That's 3 or 4 guys who were among our 30 best, including 3 top 10 guys, all injured.

 

[spiderman]

I think there's 2 things missing from our system. We have a handful of guys near the top who look like legitimate impact presences, or at least look like they've got a 50% chance or better of becoming them. Hudson, Viciedo, Flowers, Morel. We've got some talent buried at the lower levels as well, but that needs time to develop.

 

The 2 things we're missing are...1. the sort of in-between, talented, good number guys who have started to establish themselves but who are a while away that KW has been willing to trade before (i.e. Gio, DLS, Carter, Richard, etc.)., and 2., the 2009 draft class.

 

I still think the best bet here is to stand pat unless we get a steal by taking on salary. We don't have the bullets right now.

 

I'm not sure even our top ranked guys, outside of Beckman and probably Mitchell, at least, before his injury) stack up that well against other teams. Are our top guys - you mentioned Hudson, Vicideo, Flowers and Morel - mid level guys on other teams? How do Beckham and Mitchell stack up on other teams?

 

I think Williams is going to do something, and it may be pretty big (Dunn for example). I'm just not sure how he accomplishes a significant move with the minor league talent that he's willing to move (assuming Beckham if off the market). Kenny could do a number of things to improve the team - a DH, another starting pitcher, a left handed middle reliever - but it's now a matter of how much of an impact can he make with the talent he has to trade.

[GreatScott82]

Speaking of Mitchell, whats the latest on his injury? Will he be ready for ST 2011?

[Quin]

Speaking of Mitchell, whats the latest on his injury? Will he be ready for ST 2011?

 

He could be ready for the AFL.

[LittleHurt05]

He could be ready for the AFL.

 

I thought he quit football?

[Quin]

I thought he quit football?

 

Really can't tell if this is sarcasm.

So, I'll invisi-type it. The Arizona Fall League!

 

[SoxAce]

Really can't tell if this is sarcasm.

So, I'll invisi-type it. The Arizona Fall League!

 

It was.

[Quin]

It was.

 

I'm going to assume you were able to read my invisi-text?

[Balta1701]

I'm going to assume you were able to read my invisi-text?

Try the spoiler option, it makes it obvious that it was there.

[Quin]

Try the spoiler option, it makes it obvious that it was there.

 

But invisi-text makes you work for it!

[Balta1701]

But invisi-text makes you work for it!

No one would have looked for the invisitext without it. I sure didn't.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

LOL. Invis-text. I really enjoy this. I can talk some mad s*** on here!

[Vance Law]

I think KW views Viceido as untouchable.

 

I don't know that that's the case and I kind of hope it's not. His inability to draw a walk, and therefore to get on base, is pretty extreme. 8 walks in 265 plate appearances this year between Charlotte and Chicago (all walks coming in the minors, 1 intentional). He pretty much needs to hit around .300 to even be worthwhile, that's not easy. His upside seems likely to be like Crede 2006, but without the superb defense.

 

His defense definitely has not been as bad as we might have feared at third base considering Kenny decided to switch him to 1st base as a 20 year old (you generally don't do that if you feel like you can get utility from a player at a more demanding position). But you can't expect it to ever be a strong suit, and you've got to be concerned mobility wise about a 21 year old who's just 5'11'' and weighs 240.

 

If he can actually hit .300 in the majors with his power, that's definitely useful, but his OBP seemingly won't ever be better than league average. You can get that kind of production from a lot of corner infielders and it's not too difficult to find better for cheap on the free agent market (Huff, Laroche, Luke Scott). So I hope he's not untouchable.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Vance Law

[ScottyDo]

I don't know that that's the case and I kind of hope it's not. His inability to draw a walk, and therefore to get on base, is pretty extreme. 8 walks in 265 plate appearances this year between Charlotte and Chicago (all walks coming in the minors, 1 intentional). He pretty much needs to hit around .300 to even be worthwhile, that's not easy. His upside seems likely to be like Crede 2006, but without the superb defense.

His defense definitely has not been as bad as we might have feared at third base considering Kenny decided to switch him to 1st base as a 20 year old (you generally don't do that if you feel like you can get utility from a player at a more demanding position). But you can't expect it to ever be a strong suit, and you've got to be concerned mobility wise about a 21 year old who's just 5'11'' and weighs 240.

 

If he can actually hit .300 in the majors with his power, that's definitely useful, but his OBP seemingly won't ever be better than league average. You can get that kind of production from a lot of corner infielders and it's not too difficult to find better for cheap on the free agent market (Huff, Laroche, Luke Scott). So I hope he's not untouchable.

I don't know how you can say that, considering he's 21 years old. By the time he's 2006 Crede's age (28), he will have had 7 years in the majors. I agree that he projects as '06 Crede for the semi-near future (2012) but if he develops until the age of 28, I think his ceiling is much higher.

 

Also, if you've got pitch recognition, you can learn to walk. He seems to have pitch recognition based on his relatively low K-rate, but he hasn't tried to work counts yet. Give him a few years, I think he'll surprise you greatly.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I don't know how you can say that, considering he's 21 years old. By the time he's 2006 Crede's age (28), he will have had 7 years in the majors. I agree that he projects as '06 Crede for the semi-near future (2012) but if he develops until the age of 28, I think his ceiling is much higher.

 

Also, if you've got pitch recognition, you can learn to walk. He seems to have pitch recognition based on his relatively low K-rate, but he hasn't tried to work counts yet. Give him a few years, I think he'll surprise you greatly.

 

Exactly. He makes contact too. He has just 4 strikeouts in his first 40 major league at bats. That's a good sign. I also think there is something with Cuban players and looking to swing away when they have a good pitch. Alexei is the same way, but his pitch recognition isn't exactly stellar

[Balta1701]

Exactly. He makes contact too. He has just 4 strikeouts in his first 40 major league at bats. That's a good sign. I also think there is something with Cuban players and looking to swing away when they have a good pitch. Alexei is the same way, but his pitch recognition isn't exactly stellar

I think Alexei's "Pitch recognition" is probably actually quite good, otherwise he wouldn't be able to turn around the fastball like he can. I think his problem is that he sees breaking balls but he's just not good at slowing his body down to time them.

[witesoxfan]

I don't know that that's the case and I kind of hope it's not. His inability to draw a walk, and therefore to get on base, is pretty extreme. 8 walks in 265 plate appearances this year between Charlotte and Chicago (all walks coming in the minors, 1 intentional). He pretty much needs to hit around .300 to even be worthwhile, that's not easy. His upside seems likely to be like Crede 2006, but without the superb defense.

 

His defense definitely has not been as bad as we might have feared at third base considering Kenny decided to switch him to 1st base as a 20 year old (you generally don't do that if you feel like you can get utility from a player at a more demanding position). But you can't expect it to ever be a strong suit, and you've got to be concerned mobility wise about a 21 year old who's just 5'11'' and weighs 240.

 

If he can actually hit .300 in the majors with his power, that's definitely useful, but his OBP seemingly won't ever be better than league average. You can get that kind of production from a lot of corner infielders and it's not too difficult to find better for cheap on the free agent market (Huff, Laroche, Luke Scott). So I hope he's not untouchable.

 

As has been mentioned, he seems to have very good pitch recognition. He's also quite aggressive at the plate, as he's swinging at 60% of pitches thrown. FanGraphs says he's swung at 42.9% of pitches outside the zone (opposed to 28.6% for the average), but he's also swinging at 79.6% of pitches within the strike zone (opposed to 64.2% for the MLB average). With his bat speed, I think he can be a .300+ hitter in the majors with the power to come eventually. However, what is yet to be determined is what he will do with pitches thrown outside the strike zone. If he continues to beat pitchers when they challenge, him, they will start pitching around him a bit. If he can, in fact, lay off pitches outside the zone as time goes on, he will be a very dangerous hitter, even if he still remains his free swinging self.