Putz for Closer

[greg775]

How about this: support him when he's good, criticize him when he's bad

 

Is bad giving up a single and falling behind hitters and still getting the save?

Some people freak out in that exact scenario.

I'm over it. I'm aware some people just hate fat Bobby. The guy has had a very good season as a closer and many say he hasn't so we disagree.

I've seen the venom. Many Internet Sox fans hate fat Bobby. Fine. I like fat Bobby.

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think people "freak out" over Bobby giving up baserunners and getting saves. I just think they realize that a guy with a WHIP in the mid 1's as closer is a dangerous propsition that could go horribly wrong at some point soon. Also, are some of the fat Bobby supporters fat themselves and taking the fat criticism personally? I honestly wonder that sometimes reading these posts, people just love bringing up his weight. I personally don't care about his weight, I don't think it affects his pitching.

Edited July 21, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[greg775]

We've got two other guys in Putz and Thornton who can be nasty, so I am not against closer by committee.

I don't know why that's such a dirty word in baseball.

Bobby doesn't have to close every save situation, but tradition dictates he must.

[lostfan]

Some of you guys are arguing stuff defending Bobby against that was never even being said about him, reflexively I guess. And greg is being greg. All I originally said was you can't say Bobby's had "one bad outing" like April and May just didn't happen. I said nothing about Bobby being fat, or needing to be replaced (the OP did and then backed off of it), or needing to be traded, or being a terrible closer, or whatever other projections people want to make. I even said words to the effect that Bobby hit a certain point where he's been awesome and while I didn't come right out and say it, I'm willing to accept this outing as an isolated incident because I think his pitching is night and day. Still, he's probably had more stretches of being bad than stretches of being great this year, you can gloss over this or obfuscate it as much as you want but you can't change the fact that it's true, or at least close to true (since I didn't go qualifying that statement with stats).

 

Oh and when your numbers are as bad as Bobby's were earlier in the year and you still only blow one save there is a word for that: "Luck."

[fathom]

I don't think people "freak out" over Bobby giving up baserunners and getting saves. I just think they realize that a guy with a WHIP in the mid 1's as closer is a dangerous propsition that could go horribly wrong at some point soon.

 

 

This is the most perfect post of the season.

[chw42]

If I hadn't watched Bobby's horrible location, lack of control, and his overall reluctance to throw his curveball this season, I'd actually think he was unlucky. His FIP and xFIP are in the high 2s and he's almost accumulated a whole win above replacement as a reliever. But I have watched him, so I can't say he's really that unlucky.

Edited July 21, 2010 by chw42

[Milkman delivers]

That's great and all, and your detailed analysis was interesting, but that doesnt change the fact that for the most part this season, he has not looked all that impressive or intimidating. And if you or anyone can say that you are perfectly comfortable with him protecting a 1 run lead down the stretch or in the playoffs, you either are lieing, are unaware of what true shut down closers look like, or don't care. That's not a knock on Jenks, it's just a statement of how he has looked this year.

 

Beautiful.

[ScottyDo]

The closer role is a stupid one. We're better off with Jenks being relegated to one inning and using our 3 terminators (Putz, Thornton, Santos) in a mobile fashion (assuming there has to be a "closer" at all).

 

Greg is spot-on with the closer-by-committee idea, especially with our lethal bullpen.

[Ranger]

Seriously, he's been lights out while Bobby can't do anything with a lead over 1.

 

I also don't care about his SV% because when you have two all-star set up men, you better have a SV% of 120%.

 

How do setup men affect save percentage? You either pitch in a save situation or you don't. Jenks has no control over whether they get the ball to him in the 9th with a 3 run lead or less and it wouldn't affect the percentage of times he's successful.

 

Not gonna happen. There's not an organization in sports that exhibits more blind loyalty than ours. I've been saying for the last two years that Jerry Krause, the worst GM of the modern era, would still be the Bulls' GM if he hadn't quit.

 

Totally disagree with this on a baseball level. How many teams do you honestly think would've handled Jenks differently? Most teams give a closer of his track record a number of opportunities. I would argue that there isn't a single organization that would've pulled the plug on him yet if they were given the exact same personnel.

[Jordan4life_2007]

How do setup men affect save percentage? You either pitch in a save situation or you don't. Jenks has no control over whether they get the ball to him in the 9th with a 3 run lead or less and it wouldn't affect the percentage of times he's successful.

 

 

 

Totally disagree with this on a baseball level. How many teams do you honestly think would've handled Jenks differently? Most teams give a closer of his track record a number of opportunities. I would argue that there isn't a single organization that would've pulled the plug on him yet if they were given the exact same personnel.

 

Meh. I was pretty damn emotional after that game. I've come to accept that for as long as Jenks is here he'll be the closer. But I won't shed a single tear when he's gone after this year. Thank you for 2005-2007. But he makes too much money for a non-elite closer.

[Balta1701]

Totally disagree with this on a baseball level. How many teams do you honestly think would've handled Jenks differently? Most teams give a closer of his track record a number of opportunities. I would argue that there isn't a single organization that would've pulled the plug on him yet if they were given the exact same personnel.

Well, Ranger, the best comparison we probably have is someone like Lidge or Hoffman, both of whom have long records of closing, big contracts, and have struggled this year. Hoffmann is no longer closing for the Brewers, although I will grant he's been worse than Jenks.

 

Lidge is on and off for the Phils as closer. They've tried DLing him, giving him breaks, moving others in, etc. But there is one big difference..the Phils don't have an obvious replacement in their middle relief. The Sox do. If the Phils had anyone that they had a shred of confidence in, Lidge would have lost his job long ago.

 

The Brewers don't exactly have an obvious option either, but they stopped having Hoffmann close anyway.

[caulfield12]

How do setup men affect save percentage? You either pitch in a save situation or you don't. Jenks has no control over whether they get the ball to him in the 9th with a 3 run lead or less and it wouldn't affect the percentage of times he's successful.

 

 

 

Totally disagree with this on a baseball level. How many teams do you honestly think would've handled Jenks differently? Most teams give a closer of his track record a number of opportunities. I would argue that there isn't a single organization that would've pulled the plug on him yet if they were given the exact same personnel.

 

We yanked Shingo early in 2005 when he was clearly struggling...

 

But I am sure the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, etc., wouldn't give him as much leeway. #1, they have the freedom to "bench" him and go out and acquire another pitcher, and #2, money is not as much of a core issue with his contract as it is with Jenks now on the White Sox.

 

If they had relievers like Thornton, Putz and Santos, they would probably try one of them (especially Putz) before going out in the trade market.

 

Let's face it, Bobby was a pretty great "steal" and value the first 3-4 years of his time here, and now he's simply not much of an asset at all. I don't know if one team in baseball would take him off our hands and give us anything close to a Top 5-6 prospect in their organization. Not without us subsidizing his contract, which will never happen. There's also the theory that an NL team would take the gamble, but I'm sure their scouts are aware of the same issues we all are as White Sox fans.

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Alright, friends of Jenks, defend the man now. Just blew a game without any trouble against one of the worst offensive teams in recent memory, and the only out was given to him.

 

Time to make JJ or Thornton the closer. I don't care who, as long as it's not Jenks.

Edited July 22, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Quin]

Bobby to mid-relief now.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Quinarvy

[fathom]

Jenks has been the Twins most valuable player since the ASB.

[jenksycat]

bah, dammit Robert. Well time for Putz for a few and pray he finds it again like he did in June.

[Real]

No question now, he has to be the closer. Jenks can't be relied on, especially lately, this is a f***ing pennant race, you can't do the wait and see approach here, it doesn't f***ing apply

[whitesoxfan101]

Let's just hope these 2 games aren't looked back upon in early October after a close defeat in the race. As far as I'm concerned, Bobby can't be allowed to close another game this season. We have two good options in JJ and Matt, go with them.

Edited July 22, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Jordan4life_2007]

No point in even complaining anymore. Ozzie's gonna roll Jenks' jellyroll ass out there at the very next save chance. Bobby is simply a bad pitcher.

[jenksycat]

Let's just hope these 2 games aren't looked back upon in early October after a close defeat in the race.

 

ehh you can do that for a s*** load of games at the end of the season for every team

[BigSqwert]

Where's greg.

[Quin]

Where's greg.

 

He bolted from the chat the second Bobby came in.

 

Maybe he is Bobby.

 

[lord chas]

jenks is freakin worthless

[soxfan3530]

picking up Putz in my fantasy league now.....

[whitesoxfan101]

ehh you can do that for a s*** load of games at the end of the season for every team

 

True, you usually don't get two in 4 days like this though. But to your point, if we rid ourselves of the Jenks problem in the closers role, HOPEFULLY we can minimize the giveaway games. As of now, we don't have anymore of those than other teams. But if Jenks is left in as closer, that will change. Because as I said after Sunday's games, the numbers say he's due to blow several in a short period of time.

Edited July 22, 2010 by whitesoxfan101