Have the White Sox ever had a better defense?

[caulfield12]

 

 

With Vizquel at 3B, Ramirez at SS, you have two very very good defenders on the LH side of the diamond, playing at nearly Gold Glove level together the last 6 weeks.

 

Beckham and Konerko are both above average, with Gordon only showing the potential to get better at 2B.

 

Then with Pierre, Rios and Andruw Jones, the best defensive outfield we've had.

 

The only obvious weakness is AJ, but he makes up for it with pitching-calling, strategy, "gamesmanship" and leadership qualities.

 

 

 

Of course, it won't last, Quentin will probably end up playing more in RF with Teahen taking Kotsay's DH role against RHP, but there's no reason not to give Jones more time in the OF as long as we keep winning and he remains dangerous offensively.

 

Essentially, we've become the Mariners of 2009, with a better bullpen, good speed/athleticism and 25% more offensively talent.

 

It's not a coincidence that Teahen going out of the line-up and Vizquel coming in has changed the complexion of this team...Omar has become something like a mixture of Ozuna and Uribe, injecting an atmosphere of defensive excellence that has permeated itself throughout the entire team.

 

That's why KW must be hesitating to mix with the chemistry, it didn't work in 2009...and this team has become known for it's pitching, defense and versatility. Plus we really need Viciedo and Hudson going forward in order to compete in 2012.

 

If it were possible, I would actually try to convert Quentin into a 1B, DH Viciedo and find an outfielder similar to Franklin Gutierrez.

 

 

[newportitis]

Who played SS for us from 85 to 97? After watching Alexi, I can't remember....

[Knackattack]

Why convert Q! when you could just DH him? Viciedo is younger and, until proven otherwise, MUCH sturdier than Q.

[caulfield12]

I think they really should study this issue closely.

 

There's a combination of players in Quentin, Viciedo and Teahen that could either play RF, 1B or DH.

 

Psychologically, we have the perception that Quentin needs to play everyday, and yet he's battled the most injuries and the less time he's out in the field, the lesser the chance that he's injured.

 

Viciedo is too young to DH until he proves he can't play either 1B or RF. My assumption is that Viciedo and Teahen would be fairly similar defensively, maybe a notch or two above Quentin (mostly because of their arms), but nothing great.

 

Going forward, having a real RFer and DHing either Viciedo or Quentin has to be the move. Flowers has to stay at catcher or be traded to do much good for us.

 

With Vizquel, you just don't know how long he can last...but you certainly can't bench him in favor of Teahen, and Ozzie would never do that at this point, after what Omar has meant to the team. The only place Teahen fits is taking Kotsay's DH at-bats, and playing RF/3B/1B occasionally.

 

 

[3GamesToLove]

Landis and Minnie in the outfield.

 

Nellie and Aparicio as the DP combination.

 

Sherm Lollar behind the plate.

 

Just saying.

[caulfield12]

Well, that's kind of the point I was trying to make....that you have to go back 50 years to find a comparable defense.

 

Vizquel and Andruw Jones are not in their primes, but they're not far off defensively and have a cupboardful of Golden Gloves between them...Alex Rios and Alexei Ramirez are playing at nearly a Gold Glove level this season (especially Alexei since the streak started on June 9th), Pierre tracks down everything he can get to (yes, I know his arm is an obvious weakness), Beckham is full of potential defensively and Konerko's above average.

 

In my lifetime, we haven't had a defense that comes close to the one we put out there the last couple of games.

[greg775]

I may change my mind tomorrow, but I could live with Jones playing right field and CQ DHing the rest of the way.

Jones is a better option than Kotsay in the lineup (I think).

[SoxFan1]

Wow, I really think we're short-changing Konerko calling him just "above-average." He doesn't have the greatest range, but he's phenomenal over at 1B.

[Vance Law]

I seem to recall a Joe Crede and a Juan Uribe on the left side. The 2005 defense was definitely up there.

[caulfield12]

Well, Iguchi made some great plays, but I guess you could call him solid, if not sometimes spectacular, still I'd take Beckham's overall defensive potential and youth/range over Tad.

 

Konerko's become an even better defender since that time, but he has always had his limitations in terms of range and athletic ability in terms of leaping in the air or being able to improvise and track down wide or high throws.

 

Pods was sort of a mess for much of his early Sox career (by his second coming, he'd actually improved quite a bit in LF), Rowand was very solid but certainly not in Rio's ballpark as a defender and Dye versus Jones in RF, there's not much of a comparison there, either.

 

 

The way Ramirez is playing, leading the world in TC and range factor and with Vizquel, who has the softest hands in the history of the game perhaps...you're going to be pretty hard-pressed to beat that.

Edited July 21, 2010 by caulfield12

[Wanne]

Wow, I really think we're short-changing Konerko calling him just "above-average." He doesn't have the greatest range, but he's phenomenal over at 1B.

 

Agreed! Paulie rarely mistakes over there and more than not makes some really spectacular plays. What an outstanding defensive job this team did tonight. My fav was Lexi's reaction to his play in the 9th. It's nice to see them having fun out there and relaxed.

[hogan873]

It's too bad there isn't such a position as a designated fielder. Jones is a perfect fit. One of the best outfielders...ever, but his bat has slumped.

 

Seriously though, you're right about the defense. Alexei has impressed the hell out of me of late.

[LittleHurt05]

I think I have a hard time saying best defense EVER when your bench coach who has no knees left can score from 3rd on a short fly ball to left field.

[GoSox05]

1931. Much better.

[mreye]

1931. Much better.

 

1931? Tex, is this true? You were there.

[chw42]

The 05 defense was better.

[LVSoxFan]

Yeah you have to give credit to the 2005 team. People forget what a cannon of an arm Uribe had--he made throws off-balance or deep into the grass that were just SICK (like Alexei's last night).

 

Lest we forget he made the final two outs in the World Series, in spectacular fashion.

 

But yeah, this team is looking awesome. Ramirez seems to be getting better by the day....

[chw42]

That 05 left side of the infield was unstoppable.

 

The outfield was great with Rowand in center, Pods in left, and a still alright Jermaine Dye in right.

 

Iguchi and Konerko were more than serviceable on the right side of the infield. Plus, back then, A.J. was actually able to throw some guys out.

[caulfield12]

The 05 defense was better.

 

 

Maybe they (2005 SOX) played better together as a team or unit, but just comparing Pierre/Rios/A. Jones with Pods/Rowand/Dye, it's not even a contest.

 

Ramirez (of the last 6 weeks) and Uribe are a wash (some would give the edge to Alexei because of his superior range almost equal arm), Vizquel and Crede are a wash, Beckham will be better than Iguchi (not yet at turning double plays and the pivot/foot movement) and Konerko's having his best all-around season, offensively and defensively.

 

I'll just put it this way....there's not one player from 2005 that is clearly better (defensively) at any position on the field compared to the 2010 team.

 

Even AJ has been more successful throwing out runners this year compared to years past....although Contreras, Floyd and Jenks were the reason for a number of the steals, to name 3.

 

 

 

 

[joeynach]

Put Tehean back at 3B and our infield defense sucks for sure.

[caulfield12]

That 05 left side of the infield was unstoppable.

 

The outfield was great with Rowand in center, Pods in left, and a still alright Jermaine Dye in right.

 

Iguchi and Konerko were more than serviceable on the right side of the infield. Plus, back then, A.J. was actually able to throw some guys out.

 

Pods was really bad (he improved his second time with us) and Rowand was simply overrated...because he dove all over the field and ran into fences, plays that Brian Anderson or Rios routinely make without breaking a sweat.

 

Dye was never a very good defender at any point with us, because his arm was no longer a weapon. He had the reputation of having a very strong arm, but it wasn't close to what he had from around 1996-02 (not unlike Sosa, who had a great but inaccurate arm when he first came to the Sox from the Rangers).

Edited July 21, 2010 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Wow, I really think we're short-changing Konerko calling him just "above-average." He doesn't have the greatest range, but he's phenomenal over at 1B.

 

Isn't it ironic how probably the worst 1B in all of baseball, in terms of defense, could easily end up being our 1B next season (Dunn)

[Quin]

Isn't it ironic how probably the worst 1B in all of baseball, in terms of defense, could easily end up being our 1B next season (Dunn)

 

I still think we resign Paulie this offseason.

[southsidepride15]

Isn't it ironic how probably the worst 1B in all of baseball, in terms of defense, could easily end up being our 1B next season (Dunn)

 

This makes me sick to think about. Paulie needs to stick around. When he goes it's gonna be a sad, sad day in my world.

[chw42]

Pods was really bad (he improved his second time with us) and Rowand was simply overrated...because he dove all over the field and ran into fences, plays that Brian Anderson or Rios routinely make without breaking a sweat.

 

Dye was never a very good defender at any point with us, because his arm was no longer a weapon. He had the reputation of having a very strong arm, but it wasn't close to what he had from around 1996-02 (not unlike Sosa, who had a great but inaccurate arm when he first came to the Sox from the Rangers).

 

Pods was not bad, not back then. Remember, he had his groin issues starting this year, but that was in like July. This was when he was able to steal 40 bases efficiently in the first half alone. It wasn't the same Scott Podsednik back then. He had a UZR around +9 that year. Rowand was nowhere near overrated back then, UZR had him at +17, which I think led the league that year. Dye wasn't horrendous back then, he started becoming horrible in 2006. That outfield, in total, had a UZR of +22, even with Jermaine Dye's -4 UZR.

Edited July 21, 2010 by chw42