Have the White Sox ever had a better defense?

[VAfan]

I remember Joe Crede making 3 or 4 game saving plays when we clinched the Series 1-0 over the Astros. And then Uribe closed it out with the last two outs -- the amazing dive into the stands and the great charge and throw to end it. It's one thing to make some very fine plays in the middle of July in a game that isn't that close. It's another thing to make them in the World Series in a 1-0 thriller. When this unit gets there, I'll give them all the props in the world. But let's remember the 05 team got there with pitching and D too.

[Gregory Pratt]

Isn't Konerko second worst at first in UZR?

 

Anyway, I absolutely love watching Vizquel play defense, and Alexei's not bad either.

[chw42]

Isn't Konerko second worst at first in UZR?

 

Anyway, I absolutely love watching Vizquel play defense, and Alexei's not bad either.

 

His range at 1B is bad, that's a given.

[Balta1701]

Isn't Konerko second worst at first in UZR?

 

Anyway, I absolutely love watching Vizquel play defense, and Alexei's not bad either.

3rd worst in the AL, ahead of only Miguel Cabrera and Ty Wiggington. Glaus and Cantu are also worse. Prince Fielder and Mark Teixeira have very similar numbers.

[chw42]

I'm very sour about UZR at 1B. Plus/Minus is slightly better there.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I remember Joe Crede making 3 or 4 game saving plays when we clinched the Series 1-0 over the Astros. And then Uribe closed it out with the last two outs -- the amazing dive into the stands and the great charge and throw to end it. It's one thing to make some very fine plays in the middle of July in a game that isn't that close. It's another thing to make them in the World Series in a 1-0 thriller. When this unit gets there, I'll give them all the props in the world. But let's remember the 05 team got there with pitching and D too.

 

I've never seen a left side of any defense on any team EVER put on a more impressive defensive display than Crede and Uribe during the '05 World Series.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Jordan4life

[The Ginger Kid]

Landis and Minnie in the outfield.

 

Nellie and Aparicio as the DP combination.

 

Sherm Lollar behind the plate.

 

Just saying.

winner

[Jordan4life_2007]

According to UZR, DER (defensive efficiency ratio), and PADE (park adjusted defensive efficiency), the 2010 defense is not even comparable to the 2005 defense.

[caulfield12]

According to UZR, DER (defensive efficiency ratio), and PADE (park adjusted defensive efficiency), the 2010 defense is not even comparable to the 2005 defense.

 

I'm not talking about the COMPOSITE/ACCUMULATED seasonal stats.

 

I'm talking about the actual White Sox defensive line-up on the field the last couple of nights.

 

That means Omar Vizquel and not Teahen at 3B, the best version we've ever seen of Alexei Ramirez, a confident Gordon Beckham at 2B and Andruw Jones instead of Quentin in RF.

 

That's a very different team than April/May of 2010.

 

We've had two aberrational games (ones with Viciedo and even Vizquel struggling, although we did win the 5 error game) with a total of 9 errors combined, but I'm sure if you look at those other 35/37 games, you'll see a tremendous difference between the two defenses.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm not talking about the COMPOSITE/ACCUMULATED seasonal stats.

 

I'm talking about the actual White Sox defensive line-up on the field the last couple of nights.

 

That means Omar Vizquel and not Teahen at 3B, the best version we've ever seen of Alexei Ramirez, a confident Gordon Beckham at 2B and Andruw Jones instead of Quentin in RF.

 

That's a very different team than April/May of 2010.

 

We've had two aberrational games (ones with Viciedo and even Vizquel struggling, although we did win the 5 error game) with a total of 9 errors combined, but I'm sure if you look at those other 35/37 games, you'll see a tremendous difference between the two defenses.

 

So player for player? I could agree that it's better. But it certainly hasn't been anywhere close overall.

[chw42]

I'm not talking about the COMPOSITE/ACCUMULATED seasonal stats.

 

I'm talking about the actual White Sox defensive line-up on the field the last couple of nights.

 

That means Omar Vizquel and not Teahen at 3B, the best version we've ever seen of Alexei Ramirez, a confident Gordon Beckham at 2B and Andruw Jones instead of Quentin in RF.

 

That's a very different team than April/May of 2010.

 

We've had two aberrational games (ones with Viciedo and even Vizquel struggling, although we did win the 5 error game) with a total of 9 errors combined, but I'm sure if you look at those other 35/37 games, you'll see a tremendous difference between the two defenses.

 

Fine...

LF Pierre > Then Podsednik

CF Then Rowand > Rios (this is actually very true)

RF Then Dye > Jones + Quentin

3B Then Crede > Vizquel

SS Alexei > Then Uribe

2B Beckham > Then Iguchi

1B Then Konerko > Konerko

C Then A.J. > A.J.

[caulfield12]

THEN can we can respectively disagree on CF and RF.

 

And I think Konerko's better now than he was before, as well.

 

We just saw Andruw Jones save the game...a play Quentin or Dye never would have made.

Edited July 22, 2010 by caulfield12

[chw42]

THEN can we can respectively disagree on CF and RF.

 

And I think Konerko's better now than he was before, as well.

 

We just saw Andruw Jones save the game...a play Quentin or Dye never would have made.

 

The Andruw now is probably a little bit better than J.D. back in 05.

 

And as good as Rios is, he's not 2005 Aaron Rowand. I'm not basing this off some blinded love for Aaron either. UZR proves this. Plus/Minus proves this.

[GREEDY]

The Andruw now is probably a little bit better than J.D. back in 05.

 

 

Epic fail.

[chw42]

Epic fail.

 

lol...

 

Jones' UZR in right this year: -0.7 (UZR/.150 of -9)

Jones' Plus/Minus in right this year: +2 (more updated)

 

Dye's UZR in 2005: -4 (UZR/150 of -4.7)

Dye's Plus/Minus in 2005: +2.

 

Andruw's no longer the same guy who played some of the best defense the game has ever seen. He's still decent out there, but some of you are overrating him.

[jenksycat]

Fine...

LF Pierre > Then Podsednik

CF Then Rowand > Rios (this is actually very true)

RF Then Dye > Jones + Quentin

3B Then Crede > Vizquel

SS Alexei > Then Uribe

2B Beckham > Then Iguchi

1B Then Konerko > Konerko

C Then A.J. > A.J.

 

What are you basing Rowand > Rios on? How many diving plays were made?

[chw42]

What are you basing Rowand > Rios on? How many diving plays were made?

 

UZR and Plus/Minus, 05 Rowand owns Rios in both of those categories.

 

Seriously, people used to love Rowand when he was here. But oh, now that he's gone, I don't know, those diving catches sure seemed overrated...

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

UZR and Plus/Minus, 05 Rowand owns Rios in both of those categories.

 

Seriously, people used to love Rowand when he was here. But oh, now that he's gone, I don't know, those diving catches sure seemed overrated...

 

Stats be damned, Rios is a better CF than any season of Rowand. Just watching the games shows that.

 

I doubt Rios will misjudge fly balls over his head in the 9th inning vs. our top division rival like 05 Rowand did.

[jenksycat]

UZR and Plus/Minus, 05 Rowand owns Rios in both of those categories.

 

Seriously, people used to love Rowand when he was here. But oh, now that he's gone, I don't know, those diving catches sure seemed overrated...

 

Never said I didn't like him or he wasn't awesome, I just think Rios is better. Watching them both in the field, I'm taking Rios every time.

[Vote4Pedro]

Rios makes alot of balls that look like any other person in the outfield would be hard to get to just flat out easy....he has amazing range.....i agree his D is alot better than the 05' Rowand

[chw42]

Rios makes alot of balls that look like any other person in the outfield would be hard to get to just flat out easy....he has amazing range.....i agree his D is alot better than the 05' Rowand

 

Rowand had a range rating of +15 in 2005, 4th among all outfielders.

 

Rios has a 3.7 range rating this year.

Edited July 23, 2010 by chw42

[Jordan4life_2007]

You could argue who was a better CF in 2005 (I think that's all chw42 is doing). Nobody would question who's the better CF overall. That's obviously Rios.

[chw42]

You could argue who was a better CF in 2005 (I think that's all chw42 is doing). Nobody would question who's the better CF overall. That's obviously Rios.

 

I'm talking about production. Rowand, production-wise, had a better year in 05 than what Rios has done this year.

 

But from a talent and skill standpoint, I'd say Rios edges Rowand.

Edited July 24, 2010 by chw42

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm talking about production. Rowand, production-wise, had a better year in 05 than what Rios has done this year.

 

But from a talent and skill standpoint, I'd say Rios edges Rowand.

 

Yeah, I think that's where the misunderstanding lies. From a pure production standpoint, Marlon Byrd is killing Franklin Gutierrez. But obviously Franklin based on talent/skill dwarfs Byrd.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Jordan4life

[chw42]

Although I do think that Rowand's talent has been underestimated by some of the posters here. In his prime, Rowand was every bit as good as Torii Hunter was when he was in his prime. Rowand was easily one of the top center fielders in the game when he played here.