I want Ozzie and KW gone.

[bigruss]

Point is...our #1 guy, the single most expensive player on our roster, has in fact gone down.

 

We can't be in that bad of shape if we can survive that.

Most expensive yes, #1? I dont think so.

[ptatc]

Or to alleviate injuries throughout the year. Shane Victorino, an all-star last year, goes on the DL. What do the Phillies do? Call up a consensus top 10 prospect, 5 tool talent in Dominic Brown to step in. I'd hate to see what our alternative would be say Rios were to go down. That's a terrifying thought.

 

Or how the Whits Sox team performance dropped when they lost their starting 3B.........oh wait a veteran stepped in and performed well right away.

 

Prospects are suspects until they've proven they can play at the MLB level.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Or how the Whits Sox team performance dropped when they lost their starting 3B.........oh wait a veteran stepped in and performed well right away.

 

Prospects are suspects until they've proven they can play at the MLB level.

 

Now I have been drinking. It's 2010, correct? It's not 1994 and we have Robin Ventura, right? You can't be serious.

[SoxAce]

Point is...our #1 guy, the single most expensive player on our roster, has in fact gone down.

 

We can't be in that bad of shape if we can survive that.

 

Exactly. And the sox are just fine with Daniel Hudson stepping in as well. Only problem is how much patience will we have to go through the growing pains in a pennant race.

[ptatc]

Now I have been drinking. It's 2010, correct? It's not 1994 and we have Robin Ventura, right? You can't be serious.

 

I don't believe Robin Ventura was playing for the Sox this year. Although that injury he sustained in spring training the one year was horrific.

 

I'm just pointing out that players can be replaced with veterans not highly-touted unproven prospects.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't believe Robin Ventura was playing for the Sox this year. Although that injury he sustained in spring training the one year was horrific.

 

I'm just pointing out that players can be replaced with veterans not highly-touted unproven prospects.

 

Your organization should be up for contraction if you can't find a suitable replacement for Mark Teahen.

[caulfield12]

Didn't we manage to beat the Twins when 3-4 of our key players went down in 2008?

 

Let's just see how well the Twins' do in a new ballpark down the stretch, we've never taken into consideration their home field advantage in this discussion with the Metrodome having had a huge effect.

 

And we keep leaving out the year 2000 like it never happened because KW wasn't officially the GM at that time...

 

If the Twins didn't already have 1987 and 1991, would they have taken their "record of success" this decade over ours? Because if memory serves me correctly, they advanced only once (out of the first round), and that was over another small market club in the A's.

 

There's one thing that I will agree with...in terms of the farm system, Gardenhire was asked what was responsible for the Twins changing their organizationtal attitude after struggling for nearly a decade, from 1993-2000...he said it was when all their players (Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Hunter, Jacque Jones) were promoted from AA together, and you saw the same thing in the late 80's with all of our talent coming up together and blossoming in 1993 and 1994.

 

Using the KW system, that minor league "bonding" never takes place in a way that can be used to effectively bolster the major league team with "waves and waves" of players who already have the winning fundamentals drilled into them by the system, with 3-4-5 arriving each and every season together.

 

That might be the single biggest reason our teams have been inconsistent...that "chemistry" issue is always hit and miss because KW does so much tinkering with the roster and most of our major leaugue players haven't come up through our system.

 

It can be overcome with "winning" players from other team backgrounds like Cabrera and Vizquel...but to really get on sustained run like the Twins did from 2002-2004/2006 is very difficult if you're not infusing the MLB roster with players internally.

 

STILL, the fact of the matter is that the Angels and Twins have been pretty gun-shy about dealing their prospects, and it has obviously cost them in the playoffs. I think the Angels are now learning their lessons, not sure if the same can be said about the Twins. And the Twins have the biggest concern of all, what to do about their hometown hero that they just gave $184 million to if he has to be a 3B/1B/DH in that huge ballpark? Going forward, that contract might end up helping the White Sox more than anything KW does this year or next combined.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Theyve got money, a new ballpark, and great attendance. They invest well in the draft and are able to go out and get impact players (Cabrera) to help their team. They need to work on the contracts given to their own players, like Bonderman, Inge, Robertson (when he was there, even now theyre paying him 9.5 mill to play for another team.). They have plenty of areas to work on too, but they do alot right, if they were in first would people still not be complaining about some of the contracts they give out?

 

So which five million-ish dollar player on the roster would you not want to have this year to pay for the drafting of players and international signings?

[ptatc]

Your organization should be up for contraction if you can't find a suitable replacement for Mark Teahen.

 

Whether it be by veterans or prospects.

[caulfield12]

Your organization should be up for contraction if you can't find a suitable replacement for Mark Teahen.

 

Last time I checked, we were on a 31-11 run with that "unsuitable" replacement.

 

Do the Red Sox have suitable injury replacements across the board? Check on their roster from the last month...

 

 

Yes, I get the point you're trying to make, but if we're going to compare our situation with the Phillies (brand new ballpark, 10-15 years of being horrible which finally led to better drafting and results, huge payroll, etc.), I give up.

 

The fact of the matter is we've been fighting that label of the worst of the new ballparks for 20 years now.

 

And attendance in Camden Yards, Rogers Centre, Jacobs Field...have you looked at attendance numbers recently?

 

In the 70's and most of the 80's, we were one of the worst franchises in baseball, despite all the colorful characters, uniforms and Bill Veeck. For the last 20 years, clearly we've been one of the 5-10 most successful. That's a huge improvement.

 

 

[sircaffey]

So which five million-ish dollar player on the roster would you not want to have this year to pay for the drafting of players and international signings?

Mark Teahen or Scott Linebrink. Both?

[caulfield12]

So which five million-ish dollar player on the roster would you not want to have this year to pay for the drafting of players and international signings?

 

That's too easy, Teahen and Linebrink.

 

But I don't think there's any GM who hasn't made a single contract mistake....the Tigers had about 7-8 in recent years. Or look at the Flubs.

 

In my recent memory, we've only had MacDougal, and you can debate Contreras/Konerko. Linebrink was a key player in 2008's ALCD, and the jury's still out on Pierre and Teahen.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Last time I checked, we were on a 31-11 run with that "unsuitable" replacement.

 

Do the Red Sox have suitable injury replacements across the board? Check on their roster from the last month...

 

 

Yes, I get the point you're trying to make, but if we're going to compare our situation with the Phillies (brand new ballpark, 10-15 years of being horrible which finally led to better drafting and results, huge payroll, etc.), I give up.

 

The fact of the matter is we've been fighting that label of the worst of the new ballparks for 20 years now.

 

And attendance in Camden Yards, Rogers Centre, Jacobs Field...have you looked at attendance numbers recently?

 

In the 70's and most of the 80's, we were one of the worst franchises in baseball, despite all the colorful characters, uniforms and Bill Veeck. For the last 20 years, clearly we've been one of the 5-10 most successful. That's a huge improvement.

 

I won't get into this whole post. Couple things: Mark Teahen, well, sucks. He's not a guy I would use as an example of a franchise being able to legitimately replace and not miss a beat. Second, I get so sick and tired of all the "Well, that team had been bad for so long. That's why they have good prospects" bulls***. Domonic Brown was a 20TH ROUND PICK. I repeat, 20TH ROUND PICK!!! This isn't the NBA where the draft is only two rounds. There's talent up and down every draft. You just have to be able to identify it. And we've failed miserably at that.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Jordan4life

[southsider2k5]

That's too easy, Teahen and Linebrink.

 

But I don't think there's any GM who hasn't made a single contract mistake....the Tigers had about 7-8 in recent years. Or look at the Flubs.

 

In my recent memory, we've only had MacDougal, and you can debate Contreras/Konerko. Linebrink was a key player in 2008's ALCD, and the jury's still out on Pierre and Teahen.

 

So who would you have broke camp with to replace them?

[southsider2k5]

Mark Teahen or Scott Linebrink. Both?

 

Same question. Who breaks camp with the Sox to replace them?

[MattZakrowski]

So who would you have broke camp with to replace them?

 

the players from the farm system you spent that money on.

[sircaffey]

the players from the farm system you spent that money on.

Or with the better system, perhaps go out and acquire someone with some actual talent other than settling for someone who all-around sucks.

[caulfield12]

Torres/Hudson/Threets/Santeliz/Nunez for the Linebrink's spot

 

I said before I would have kept Beckham at 3B and brought in Orlando Hudson (which would have created a hole at 2B with his injuries, in which case we'd be using Vizquel, Nix or Lillibridge there)

[southsider2k5]

the players from the farm system you spent that money on.

 

That's a cop out. The day you decide that you need to spend $5 million a year more on the farm stuff, is the day you lose that money. You don't get to reap the benefits from that money until years from now when those players start making it through the system.

 

Looking at the Sox team as it was in Spring 2010, if you were somehow able to find someone else to take on Linebrink without leaving us any money, and the same with Teahen, I want to hear who was the 3B on opening day and who was the extra pitcher.

[southsider2k5]

Torres/Hudson/Threets/Santeliz/Nunez for the Linebrink's spot

 

I said before I would have kept Beckham at 3B and brought in Orlando Hudson (which would have created a hole at 2B with his injuries, in which case we'd be using Vizquel, Nix or Lillibridge there)

 

Can't bring in more salary. You are spending that money on the draft.

[southsider2k5]

Or with the better system, perhaps go out and acquire someone with some actual talent other than settling for someone who all-around sucks.

 

You can't trade draft picks for a year after signing them.

[MattZakrowski]

That's a cop out. The day you decide that you need to spend $5 million a year more on the farm stuff, is the day you lose that money. You don't get to reap the benefits from that money until years from now when those players start making it through the system.

 

Looking at the Sox team as it was in Spring 2010, if you were somehow able to find someone else to take on Linebrink without leaving us any money, and the same with Teahen, I want to hear who was the 3B on opening day and who was the extra pitcher.

 

Considering how garbage Teahen is, Viciedo and/or Vizquel would get the job done. As for the guy in the Linebrink spot, considering how meaningless his appearances are I'd just use Torres.

[sircaffey]

You can't trade draft picks for a year after signing them.

Yes I know that. But KW wouldn't have to be so hesitant in making a deal with our few good prospects. Our system can sustain one impact trade and then it's pretty much wiped out. It'd be a lot easier to justify a trade and still feel good about your future if you had a few more impact prospects.

[southsider2k5]

Yes I know that. But KW wouldn't have to be so hesitant in making a deal with our few good prospects. Our system can sustain one impact trade and then it's pretty much wiped out. It'd be a lot easier to justify a trade and still feel good about your future if you had a few more impact prospects.

 

My point is that it is easy to say that we have to pay up for a better system. The reality is that if you decide to do that, it means the movement go away from resources that go to the current team, into resources that potentially don't pay off for years, if ever. There is a period of time where you suffer from the loss of those resources while the fruits of those changes have time to grow. At the end of the day, seeing how much people b****ed about the players we broke camp with, it would have been even worse if we had Dayan Viciedo on the roster hitting the way he did in Charlotte for the first month of the year. On the bullpen side of it, it is easy to say dump Linebrink. The reality is that if that were possible, he would have been dumped a long time ago. Saving that money for "scouting, drafting, and signings" would have meant no JJ Putz signing for sure, and it probably would have meant no Kotsay either, and someone like Brent Lillibridge on the roster instead.

[mr_genius]

Probably followed by people hating that there arent impact players in the minors, while clamoring to make big trades at the deadline by dealing top prospects.