I want Ozzie and KW gone.

[hawkjt]

Welcome to the board!

 

 

I agree. Rational discussion is always welcome. The fact that the Sox went from 1991 to 2009 without a top 15 pick due to finishing 1st or 2nd most years is a factor in our drafting issues.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I agree. Rational discussion is always welcome. The fact that the Sox went from 1991 to 2009 without a top 15 pick due to finishing 1st or 2nd most years is a factor in our drafting issues.

 

Huh?

[caulfield12]

Without a Top 10 pick, except for Beckham....Broadway and Borchard were fairly close, right?

 

We had some pretty bad teams in the late 90's as well, would have to look it up.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/draft/history/_/team/chw

 

Bobby Seay was #12 and went unsigned as a first rounder...Borchard was 12, Brian Anderson and Broadway were 15, the forgettable Scott Christman was 17.

Edited July 30, 2010 by caulfield12

[sircaffey]

We keep saying how brilliant the Rangers are these days, but they traded away Danks, Chris Young (pitcher), Adrian Gonzalez...they've also dealt Armando Galarraga, Francisco Cordero and Edison Volquez, although Josh Hamilton is looking like the better part of that deal for now.

 

KW hasn't made nearly that many mistakes with the most precious resource in the game, young pitching. The only starters you can argue that "got away" are Clayton Richard and Gio Gonzalez, and I bet 90% of the board would say trade for Peavy was the right move at the time, at that price...since you're pointing out Halladay, Lee and Oswalt as examples, certainly you agree with the acquisition of Peavy, yes?

There's a significant difference. The Rangers' system actually produces Major League talent from within. I'm not going to give KW credit for not letting anything significant get away when there wasn't anything to get away in the first place. I give KW credit for maximizing what little he has to work with down there, however.

[balfanman]

I can't believe that this thread went over 8 hours without a post!

 

My guess is that this is sort of a calm before the storm if KW doesn't bring a bat in by tomorrow at 3:05

[Jordan4life_2007]

I can't believe that this thread went over 8 hours without a post!

 

My guess is that this is sort of a calm before the storm if KW doesn't bring a bat in by tomorrow at 3:05

 

You will see J4L 'unleashed' if the offense isn't legitimately upgraded.

[balfanman]

You will see J4L 'unleashed' if the offense isn't legitimately upgraded.

 

I'll have the popcorn ready!

[southsider2k5]

You will see J4L 'unleashed' if the offense isn't legitimately upgraded.

 

He "got" Lance Berkman.

[fathom]

He "got" Lance Berkman.

 

Nope

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,7294813.column

[ThunderBolt]

You will see J4L 'unleashed' if the offense isn't legitimately upgraded.

Expect to see a nice rant from we as well.

[southsider2k5]

Nope

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,7294813.column

From the sounds of it, this isn't really true.

[Chicago White Sox]

From the sounds of it, this isn't really true.

What do you mean?

[southsider2k5]

What do you mean?

 

That's not what we are being told.

[caulfield12]

Does anyone in Chicago have any idea what's going on the in last 12 hours?

 

Cowley has suddenly disappeared from the map.

 

Also, there were rumors of Lilly and Theriot going West...nothing now?

 

I guess it might be one of those days where everything comes at the last second like a whirlwind, or there's just an eerie silence from no moves being made.

 

 

[SoxFan562004]

Expect to see a nice rant from we as well.

So you're going to go on a rant and spew venom at KW and the org about a subject where we will NEVER have the full info about? What if a significant bat without an NTC isn't moved? Maybe there really weren't any out at the deadline. What if teams only wanted Gordon, Q and Dayan off the White Sox roster?

 

To me it's a bit of an easy argument to trump Hudson as some super-prospect that KW got under value for since nobody knows how other teams truly viewed him, so there's no tangible evidence to block that argument, but people get to run with it and state it like it's fact.

 

It's like with the other moves, ie, Haren, Sox didn't get him, neither did the NYY or other teams who wanted him, so who knows how the D'Backs scouted the Angels players they got or what that process was like and what happened during the whole process, but KW didn't get him so that is that.

 

Do I want to see the Sox upgrade before mid afternoon today? Absolutely, if Kotsay is still on this roster Ozzie will unfortunately use him a lot over a promising young hitter in Dayan who honestly can't do any worse. However, what I won't is doubt that KW and the Sox org. tried their hardest with the resources they had, which a Yahoo! reporter on B & B said the Sox and NYY are really the only teams out there willing to take money on, to improve this team. Maybe you don't like Edwin Jackson and you point to spreadsheets that say it will cripple the franchise next year, but KW and JR made the move and I think they have a little better knowledge of the White Sox business than ANYBODY on this board or in the media. I have a strong feeling knew damn well when he got E Jax that there was a good chance he would be on this team this year, I don't think he got "played" or whatever some people want to label it.

 

One thing I will agree with is that this team needs an upgrade in their farm system, it seemingly is thin, and even if it continues to be just a breeding ground for KW trades it apparently needs to be stronger, but Mitchell getting hurt, and 1 or 2 other injuries/illness, from my understanding, made it thinner.

 

Obviously this is a fun board and I don't mean my own rant to rip on other people here, I enjoy reading most posters, even when I don't agree with them, just think that KW and the org get a lot of hate on here for things that we will never know even close to the full story about.

Edited July 31, 2010 by SoxFan562004

[caulfield12]

And, in all fairness, there were at least 3 other teams that Berkman crossed off his list and blocked a possible trade to yesterday, maybe 4.

 

Certainly, not JUST the White Sox.

 

This always ends up as "such and such player won't come to Chicago because of Ozzie Guillen" or "Guillen was listed among the least favorite managers to play for..." or whatever.

 

But nobody's calling Mike Scioscia a manic micro-manager when D.Lee refuses to go to the Angels. And the fact of the matter, why would we want a player who doesn't want to play for the White Sox? Fine, it's just like NCAA basketball or football scholarships, they can go elsewhere and we'll continue to take the player who New York casts aside like Jose Contreras and El Duque and beat them with heart, desire and the ever-present "chip on our shoulder/us against the world" mentality KW and Ozzie like to inculcate.

 

If anything, I think one of the challenges Minnesota has had to deal with this year is knowing how to be the favorite and not the underdog, overachieving team that stalks the big-city, big-budget bullies. When the shoe's on the other foot, it's not quite so easy to motivate the players, as Gardenhire has learned this season.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

And, in all fairness, there were at least 3 other teams that Berkman crossed off his list and blocked a possible trade to yesterday, maybe 4.

 

Certainly, not JUST the White Sox.

 

This always ends up as "such and such player won't come to Chicago because of Ozzie Guillen" or "Guillen was listed among the least favorite managers to play for..." or whatever.

 

But nobody's calling Mike Scioscia a manic micro-manager when D.Lee refuses to go to the Angels. And the fact of the matter, why would we want a player who doesn't want to play for the White Sox? Fine, it's just like NCAA basketball or football scholarships, they can go elsewhere and we'll continue to take the player who New York casts aside like Jose Contreras and El Duque and beat them with heart, desire and the ever-present "chip on our shoulder/us against the world" mentality KW and Ozzie like to inculcate.

 

If anything, I think one of the challenges Minnesota has had to deal with this year is knowing how to be the favorite and not the underdog, overachieving team that stalks the big-city, big-budget bullies. When the shoe's on the other foot, it's not quite so easy to motivate the players, as Gardenhire has learned this season.

Those are some excellent points.

[ThunderBolt]

So you're going to go on a rant and spew venom at KW and the org about a subject where we will NEVER have the full info about?

I don't care about Berkman, i care about KW putting himself in a position to be screwed out of Dan Hudson and David Holmberg, for a pitcher he doesn't want, because he thought, not knew, that the Nationals would want him Edwin Jackson in return for Adam Dunn.

[Kyyle23]

I don't care about Berkman, i care about KW putting himself in a position to be screwed out of Dan Hudson and David Holmberg, for a pitcher he doesn't want, because he thought, not knew, that the Nationals would want him Edwin Jackson in return for Adam Dunn.

 

you assume a lot

 

and you are a chicken little

[fathom]

Jackson is absolutely the type of pitcher that KW and Cooper likes.

[ThunderBolt]

you assume a lot

 

and you are a chicken little

I never said the sky has fallen, and I’m making an assumption based on a substantial amount of talk that's been flying around. I'm just frustrated, KyYie. For me, this is a culmination of the rotating DH thing. A concept that we both knew wasn't going to work, wherein management created a hole, which is proving very difficult to fill. And if we really did make a move, to set-up a lateral move without an agreement hashed out, I’m going to be furious. The Sox put themselves in a position of weakness coming into the season, that weakness appears to be getting exposed.

[Kyyle23]

I never said the sky has fallen, and I’m making an assumption based on a substantial amount of talk that's been flying around. I'm just frustrated, KyYie. For me, this is a culmination of the rotating DH thing. A concept that we both knew wasn't going to work, wherein management created a hole, which is proving very difficult to fill. And if we really did make a move, to set-up a lateral move without an agreement hashed out, I’m going to be furious. The Sox put themselves in a position of weakness coming into the season, that weakness appears to be getting exposed.

 

you dont have to actually say "the sky is falling" to be a chicken little. You should review your posts in this thread, thats all I am gonna say.

 

Your assumptions of the way things are playing out are a bit off, it isnt always as twitterverse says

[ThunderBolt]

you dont have to actually say "the sky is falling" to be a chicken little. You should review your posts in this thread, thats all I am gonna say.

 

Your assumptions of the way things are playing out are a bit off, it isnt always as twitterverse says

I imagine it would be hard for anyone to be Chicken Little when you're a fan of team that's 14 games above .500. I was critical from the outset of this season of the lackadaisical approach management took to correct the self-inflicted DH hole. I stand by my criticisms, just like I stand by my opinion of this Jackson ordeal, until I get information proving that I was wrong here. And when that happens I will readily admit I was wrong. You know me, by now, KyYie. I’m not afraid to admit I was wrong even if I’m damn stubborn in doing so. Just because I have, and will continue to have this specific criticism does not make me a doom-sayer, or a gloom-monger, it means only that I’m frustrated with one aspect of the puzzle not the whole.

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm actually not as upset as a lot of people seem to be about the Jackson/Hudson trade, even though I think it's pretty obvious Hudson is worth more, and Jackson could have been had for less. If a bat isn't acquired by the deadline today though, I'll be among the list in line to come in here and rip KW to shreds.

[caulfield12]

There will still be a lot of deals go through in the month of August.

 

I would hate to get desperate and overpay for Dunn today...we are in first place, after all, we're not chasing down a leader from 5-6-7 games back and having to jump over one other team.