Hudson's command is just terrible

[Balta1701]

He has really good stuff. Nothing he throws goes straight. To me, it looks like he is afraid to get hit, so he is trying to nibble the corners with the perfect pitch. Because of this he is pitching from behind a lot.

Which is exactly what we see from 95% of the rookie pitchers that enter the league.

[Chisoxfn]

any scout from a team interested in him really shouldn't be scared away from his performance, his stuff still looks good. He's a young prospect and any of the teams who want him for the long term would likely still base their assessment of him off their minor league scouting and that when he actually shows some control he can be effective in MLB

Bingo. When I watch Hudson I see good life on his fastball, a solid slider, and a pretty solid looking chaneup.

 

Quite frankly, I see a lot to like and I would be perfectly content battling for the division with the current roster. Would I like an upgrade at DH, absolutely, but if it is going to cost Hudson or Beckham count me out. I would be ok giving up Viciedo for the right pieces and am less concerned about guys like Flowers.

 

The big question to me is what would it cost for a Luke Scott type of bat. If it costs Morel, do the Sox consider that deal?

[SoxFan562004]

Bingo. When I watch Hudson I see good life on his fastball, a solid slider, and a pretty solid looking chaneup.

 

Quite frankly, I see a lot to like and I would be perfectly content battling for the division with the current roster. Would I like an upgrade at DH, absolutely, but if it is going to cost Hudson or Beckham count me out. I would be ok giving up Viciedo for the right pieces and am less concerned about guys like Flowers.

 

The big question to me is what would it cost for a Luke Scott type of bat. If it costs Morel, do the Sox consider that deal?

knowing KW's track record, I think he wouldn't blink to trade Morel.

 

I'm kind of with you about Hudson, I see a lot of potential for him to be a good MLB starter, so unless it's like a Fielder deal with an extension (pipe dream) I would be hesitant to move him.

 

The reason I am anxious for KW to make a sizable move this season is with the pen and Gavin/Danks/MB I want to see what this team can do in the playoffs with an upgrade at DH. Honestly, if he stands pat Dayan needs to DH everyday IMO.

[Balta1701]

Honestly, if he stands pat Dayan needs to DH everyday IMO.

I'm starting to think the only way this happens is if Teahen comes back and KW decides to force the issue by replacing Kotsay on the roster with him.

[scenario]

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/5...o=7%2F26%2F2010

 

Pitch f/x looks fine to me. Not throwing strikes really isn't the problem. He had a lot of 0-2 counts yesterday, just wasn't able to finish the hitters off. He needs better pitch selection and he needs to throw the change-up more. Having a good slider would greatly help as well.

 

Interesting. I get the impression from the data (if I'm reading it right) that he should have thrown fewer changeups and more sliders.

 

Back to somebody's earlier comment about Clayton Richard... CR had similar issues in his first several starts. Could only get 1-2 pitches across the plate with consistency... MLB hitters wouldn't bite on his offspeed stuff... got behind in counts... had to throw the fastball. Got slapped around.

 

But what Hudson has going in his favor... much better late movement on his pitches. That usually translates into good results if a guy can find the plate consistently. And Hudson's history suggests he will eventually.

 

It's just hard to watch most young pitchers struggle in the transition to the majors.

 

[dyuen]

It is not "completely ridiculous" to expect Hudson to step up and challenge hitters once in a while. If you don't think his performance today didn't hurt his trade value, that my friend is ridiculous.

That didn't hurt his trade value at all. Sure he struggled with his location bigtime yesterday. Maybe he was afraid to challenge hitters, maybe he was nervous, maybe he just couldn't throw strikes. Rookies struggle with location all the time. Heck there were a number of games this year that Peavy had horrible command.

 

From what I see Hudson has good stuff. Let's give him some time before we decide what he is ultimately going to be. That may take a year or so. Whether thats with us or not remains to be seen.

[elrockinMT]

Youth and inxperience is the issue. Hudson has two poor starts and one pretty good one vrs the Mariners. We do need to see better from him for sure if that #5 pitching spot is used much

Edited July 26, 2010 by elrockinMT

[Knackattack]

I think it is really funny how people say Hudson has no command, no balls and will only be a "nice #4 starter" and then follow it up with no statistical evidence.

[Kyyle23]

I think it is really funny how people say Hudson has no command, no balls and will only be a "nice #4 starter" and then follow it up with no statistical evidence.

 

the eye test trumps all

[Chisoxfn]

the eye test trumps all

It really does, but I see the stuff of a #2 to #3 starter in the AL. Whether he makes it or not, who knows. He has really nice velocity, good movement, and 3 quality pitches. I think he's got the ability and he appears to be a pretty smart, level headed guy.

 

I'll take my chances with Huddy.

[fathom]

It really does, but I see the stuff of a #2 to #3 starter in the AL. Whether he makes it or not, who knows. He has really nice velocity, good movement, and 3 quality pitches. I think he's got the ability and he appears to be a pretty smart, level headed guy.

 

I'll take my chances with Huddy.

 

Have you honestly seen a good slider from him though? I sure haven't. As I keep repeating, he has a plus change-up though that will really benefit him.

[NorthSideSox72]

Have you honestly seen a good slider from him though? I sure haven't. As I keep repeating, he has a plus change-up though that will really benefit him.

Seems odd, when I've watched Hudson this year, both times he seemed to START the game with good slider and angled tilt on the FB... but as the game goes on, they both flatten out. Just my perception though, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Have you honestly seen a good slider from him though? I sure haven't. As I keep repeating, he has a plus change-up though that will really benefit him.

I've seen some nice sliders from him. The Mariners game was pretty. But you are right, his change-up is a real nice pitch too. The key is, he has some good stuff that he will have to work on refining but he's already made a s***-ton of progress since being drafted by the organization and I fully believe him to be very coachable, with good stuff, and with that I am confident that he will be a big piece for us over the next 5 years.

[Kyyle23]

Hudson was nibbling yesterday, and then he fell apart a bit in the 2nd when that dribbler got past beckham. I like his stuff, he has a ton of movement on his fast ball and when he has confidence in his pitches that changeup will be a wipeout pitch. I havent seen him use his slider too much yet, and I agree it has looked pretty flat so far

[Chisoxfn]

Hudson was nibbling yesterday, and then he fell apart a bit in the 2nd when that dribbler got past beckham. I like his stuff, he has a ton of movement on his fast ball and when he has confidence in his pitches that changeup will be a wipeout pitch. I havent seen him use his slider too much yet, and I agree it has looked pretty flat so far

Yesterday, I thought he pitched better than the numbers indicated, but I didn't think he pitched good, either.

[Kyyle23]

Yesterday, I thought he pitched better than the numbers indicated, but I didn't think he pitched good, either.

 

he was just hot and cold all day. One batter he would dominate, the next would dominate him. As has been stated multiple times in this thread, such is the way of rookie pitchers, you just have to deal with it

[Balta1701]

Seems odd, when I've watched Hudson this year, both times he seemed to START the game with good slider and angled tilt on the FB... but as the game goes on, they both flatten out. Just my perception though, maybe I'm wrong.

I really think AJ didn't want to call for the slider yesterday, especially if anyone was on base, because he didn't think he could block it.

[southsider2k5]

Seems odd, when I've watched Hudson this year, both times he seemed to START the game with good slider and angled tilt on the FB... but as the game goes on, they both flatten out. Just my perception though, maybe I'm wrong.

 

He gets into jams and starts trying to make the perfect pitches. He has overthrown a lot of pitches, which causes your breaking stuff to flatten out, and when he has tried to be perfect, he has missed the zone a lot. It is a confidence thing at this point. Someone needs to get through to him to trust his stuff, just like they did with Garland, Danks, Floyd, etc.

[The Ginger Kid]

"Afraid of the bat"

 

that's genius.

[SoxAce]

I really think AJ didn't want to call for the slider yesterday, especially if anyone was on base, because he didn't think he could block it.

 

I told that to fathom in the game thread yesterday. Reminds me of Bobby's curve "disappearing."

[joeynach]

Hudson definatly has trouble with both command and control. Anyone who watched him pitch against the A's can tell you that. He has control trouble especially in more crucial and pressure situations, or at least he did against the A's. He threw a lot of pitches way out of zone or bounced them up there, that his control issue. He also has no control of the movement of his pitches. The run on his fastball, which is moves and locates to, he seemingly cant control. You saw him throw a bunch of two seam fastballs that ran right into RH hitters swing plane for base hits. He has good stuff there is no doubt, but he cant keep pitching his fastball belt high with inward run to righties waiting for middle in pitches, that wont work. All that being said hes still young and raw, he needs to develop and polish his abilities. The place to do so is in AAA or on an MLB roster not in a pennant race. Unfortunately that's not a luxury we have. For right now we either needs to live with Hudson's erraticness in his starts, or find some sort of replacement and send him back to AAA.

[Balta1701]

or find some sort of replacement and send him back to AAA.

You're not finding a replacement unless you trade him. Not one that wouldn't have the same problems, at least.

[joeynach]

You're not finding a replacement unless you trade him. Not one that wouldn't have the same problems, at least.

 

Carlos Torres can throw strikes....he just has lousy stuff.

[fathom]

Carlos Torres can throw strikes....he just has lousy stuff.

 

His control was awful at times last year with the Sox, and he recently walked 6 in a game in the minors.

[Jack Parkman]

I am actually not impressed by Hudson's stuff, and I'm not surprised he got hammered in 2 out of 3 starts. He was getting it up there to 94-95 in his first two starts, but yesterday was sitting at 90-92. If yesterday's fastball velocity is what he brings most of the time, then by all means trade him before he lowers his value. He has no breaking ball. I think that AJ doesn't call for it often because he knows it's going to get hammered if it's not just a "show me" pitch. His change is good but the "slider" has barely any movement and tilt to it at all. I think that the swings and misses he gets off it are because it is a little slower than his fastball and opposing hitters don't time it correctly.....yet. Hitters should know when his curve is coming because his arm angle changes from low 3/4 to high 3/4, which I'm sure that advance scouts have picked up on by now. From what I've seen of Hudson's stuff I think he could be a good set up guy in the future with the mid 90s fastball that moves and his change up, but I don't think that he is going to have any sustained success starting in the majors. Props to Keith Law for scouting this guy better than most others, Because I see what he saw-a pitcher with a plus change and a fringe-average breaking ball. I now trust his scouting a little more and I'd like a bit more info on why he doesn't like Sale. I know Law is perceived to have something against the Sox, but he seemed spot on on this guy.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Elgin Slim