Jenks will Close again

[scenario]

Let's get down to the real issue...

 

What the hell is Jenks doing throwing weak *** offspeed **** to Ramon Santiago and Ryan Rayburn?

 

We're not talking Miguel Cabrera here... what deception was required?

 

Neither one of those guys is capable of getting around on his fastball!

 

Blow them away 1-2-3. Over.

 

Anything else is a freaking waste of time... and improves their chances of getting on base.

 

Bottom line: it was a pitch selection problem. I think if that is addressed, most of Jenks' "problems" go away.

Edited August 6, 2010 by scenario

[bmags]

Let's get down to the real issue...

 

What the hell is Jenks doing throwing weak *** offspeed **** to Ramon Santiago and Ryan Rayburn?

 

We're not talking Miguel Cabrera here... what deception was required?

 

Neither one of those guys is capable of getting around on his fastball!

 

Blow them away 1-2-3. Over.

 

Anything else is a freaking waste of time... and improves their chances of getting on base.

 

Bottom line: it was a pitch selection problem. I think if that is addressed, most of Jenks' "problems" go away.

 

This CONTINUES to be the problem.

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

This CONTINUES to be the problem.

 

Something you'd think (hope) Coop would mention in passing...

 

I'd be significantly more upset if he walked one or two and then got base hit to death, which seems to be Bobby's method of choice for blowing saves. It was an lol pitch that he got beat on, and maybe Mark the Machine's antics softened my feelings about this afternoon, but those two out(lack of)ings against the Twinks and A's drew much stronger feelings out of me.

 

Everyone knew Jenks' reduced role after those two blown saves was going to be short lived. It should have lasted longer, and hopefully it will this time.

[Lemon_44]

Well said!

 

We all know what we see...it just takes guts to admit what we see is not good. Jenks is not the closer that strikes fear like Goose Gossage, Joe Nathan and numerous others past and present.

 

There's something wrong with the guy, that's obvious but I'm sure OG will stick with him cause that's what OG does. OG is a players manager so he'll coddle Jenks and try to get something out of him.

 

At what point do these blown save come back to haunt you???

 

Minnesota will be in it to the end, so we need a reliable closer!

The same Joe Nathan that blew 6 saves in 2008 and 5 saves in 2009. .

[BearingPro]

...and another thing...

 

Jenks should just shut his mouth after he blows a save like today. He sounds like a complete doofus when he explains himself.

 

Just say, "I suck", and be on your way, Bobby!

[caulfield12]

One reason Jenks would be dangerous with runners on base is that he would automatically let them steal 2nd and 3rd.

 

Which means he's have to get strikeouts instead of allowing contact, and not allow a wild pitch or a sacrifice fly. What do you think his percentage of inherited runners allowed to score would be? 75%?

 

Fine, if you want him to start the 6th, 7th and 8th, but it would be a bad idea to bring him into innings other relievers began or with the starter fading at the end of game, like Edwin Jackson's walk yesterday. Those runs automatically score.

Edited August 6, 2010 by caulfield12

[Jordan4life_2007]

The same Joe Nathan that blew 6 saves in 2008 and 5 saves in 2009. .

 

You've done it now. Wait until Kalapse gets a peep at this.

[chw42]

The same Joe Nathan that blew 6 saves in 2008 and 5 saves in 2009. .

 

And how many of those were 3 run lead blown saves...?

[Paint it Black]

Ozzie doesn't have anybody playing over their heads. Outstanding starting pitching, a 3-week tear by CQ and a favorable schedule is how we got back in this. No manager that consistently runs Mark Kotsay out there as his everyday DH deserves credit. Would I be sticking by Ozzie if somebody other than Jenks blew the save? You obviously didn't see the thread I created a couple weeks ago. I've long soured on Ozzie Guillen. 2005 was exactly that. 2005. He's just not that good a manager.

 

 

 

3 blown saves in like 3 weeks? Yes. Sabotaging the season. What more do you guys need? Another blown save tomorrow or next week? We've got a f***ing 1 game lead and we have a closer that can't be trusted with a 2-3 run lead, let along a 1 run lead.

 

Someone has forgotten about the 1-2-3 outings Jenks has had since that awful Twins loss. Also, apparently it's Ozzie's fault that the White Sox finally got to play the weak part of their schedule. Doesn't Ozzie get credit for believing in this team the whole year, when people like you were proclaiming the team dead and vowed to not watch another pitch this season? Ozzie manages the pen almost as good as any manager in baseball. That's not just my opinion either, but that of many scouts and people actually in baseball.

[lostfan]

Every pitcher has 1-2-3 innings from time to time. Even Linebrink. That in itself isn't praise, see Bobby's WHIP etc.

[greg775]

Someone has forgotten about the 1-2-3 outings Jenks has had since that awful Twins loss. Also, apparently it's Ozzie's fault that the White Sox finally got to play the weak part of their schedule. Doesn't Ozzie get credit for believing in this team the whole year, when people like you were proclaiming the team dead and vowed to not watch another pitch this season? Ozzie manages the pen almost as good as any manager in baseball. That's not just my opinion either, but that of many scouts and people actually in baseball.

 

If this was twitter, I'd make this a retweet. Go Sox!

[Paint it Black]

Every pitcher has 1-2-3 innings from time to time. Even Linebrink. That in itself isn't praise, see Bobby's WHIP etc.

I have said that Jenks has not been very good this year. But there has been a lot of over exaggeration in this thread concerning how bad Jenks has been. I just think that if you want to nitpick the awful outings, then you must also recognize the good ones. What is done in the middle is where one should be judged.

[Balta1701]

Let's get down to the real issue...

 

What the hell is Jenks doing throwing weak *** offspeed **** to Ramon Santiago and Ryan Rayburn?

 

We're not talking Miguel Cabrera here... what deception was required?

 

Neither one of those guys is capable of getting around on his fastball!

 

Blow them away 1-2-3. Over.

 

Anything else is a freaking waste of time... and improves their chances of getting on base.

 

Bottom line: it was a pitch selection problem. I think if that is addressed, most of Jenks' "problems" go away.

There was a long stretch of time where I think most everyone would have agreed that Bobby's best pitch, his out pitch...was that curveball.

[BigSqwert]

I have said that Jenks has not been very good this year. But there has been a lot of over exaggeration in this thread concerning how bad Jenks has been. I just think that if you want to nitpick the awful outings, then you must also recognize the good ones. What is done in the middle is where one should be judged.

His season has been a complete fail. The numbers speak for themselves. If you want him to come into the game in a playoff game or crucial situation then more power to you. I've seen enough.

[Lemon_44]

His season has been a complete fail. The numbers speak for themselves. If you want him to come into the game in a playoff game or crucial situation then more power to you. I've seen enough.

Of the top 15 players in saves, the least amount of blown saves is 2(Soria, Soriano, Fleiz, Rivera). Jenks has 3,so it's not like has hasn't been doing his job at a pretty good rate. Capps, the supposed savior for Minny, has 5 already.

[Balta1701]

Of the top 15 players in saves, the least amount of blown saves is 2(Soria, Soriano, Fleiz, Rivera). Jenks has 3,so it's not like has hasn't been doing his job at a pretty good rate. Capps, the supposed savior for Minny, has 5 already.

Again...the game against Minnesota where Jenks came in, gave up 2 runs, and loaded the bases without retiring anyone does not count as a blown save for Jenks because he was pulled before giving up the lead. He took the loss in that game by putting the winning run on base, it was 100% his fault...but Santos took the Blown Save.

 

This point should do nothing more than illustrate the futility of quoting "blown saves". Bobby single-handedly blew the game with an epic meltdown, but he did not take the blown save.

[BigSqwert]

Of the top 15 players in saves, the least amount of blown saves is 2(Soria, Soriano, Fleiz, Rivera). Jenks has 3,so it's not like has hasn't been doing his job at a pretty good rate. Capps, the supposed savior for Minny, has 5 already.

There are a lot more telling stats besides blown saves that tell the full picture.

[hogan873]

There are a lot more telling stats besides blown saves that tell the full picture.

A truer statement may not have uttered in this thread. Bobby has had some great outings, but so has Linebrink, Threets, and even Williams. The big difference there is that Bobby's job is to close games. It's a high pressure situation, and the closer has to be sharp every time out. Every closer in the game will blow saves. Bobby isn't sharp...a lot. A team should have a lot of confidence in their closer, and aside from Ozzie's misleading statements, I think he's the only one who has confidence in him.

 

Bobby has a big ERA (and I don't care what Steve Stone says, it DOES matter) and his WHIP is quite chunky, too. Those numbers do not belong to a great or even good closer.

[Greg Hibbard]

There was a long stretch of time where I think most everyone would have agreed that Bobby's best pitch, his out pitch...was that curveball.

 

And the people crying foul over Bobby hanging a curve were begging him to throw one the past two weeks. Well, he f***ing threw one....

 

 

[Greg Hibbard]

A truer statement may not have uttered in this thread. Bobby has had some great outings, but so has Linebrink, Threets, and even Williams. The big difference there is that Bobby's job is to close games. It's a high pressure situation, and the closer has to be sharp every time out. Every closer in the game will blow saves. Bobby isn't sharp...a lot. A team should have a lot of confidence in their closer, and aside from Ozzie's misleading statements, I think he's the only one who has confidence in him.

 

Bobby has a big ERA (and I don't care what Steve Stone says, it DOES matter) and his WHIP is quite chunky, too. Those numbers do not belong to a great or even good closer.

 

Every closer in baseball is not sharp every time out. If Bobby had two bad outings, we'd overlook it. Three, half the board jumps ship. Four, everyone is overboard.

 

I'm not saying I disagree with removing him, but the margin of error here is nada at this point.

[hogan873]

Every closer in baseball is not sharp every time out. If Bobby had two bad outings, we'd overlook it. Three, half the board jumps ship. Four, everyone is overboard.

 

I'm not saying I disagree with removing him, but the margin of error here is nada at this point.

You're right, and I alluded to that saying that every closer will blow saves. I suppose I should have worded it differently. The closer is expected to be one of the sharpest pitchers on your staff because of the nature of their task. One inning (usually) not giving up hits, walks, or runs. Hits and walks happen...no one will get around that, but it's the runs that are the most important.

 

Bobby's biggest issue is his pattern of failures. He has two or three miserable outings, he gets "dropped" from the closer role, he pitches well and gets his job back, closes a couple games well, and then blows it again. That is what is so frustrating.

[Balta1701]

You're right, and I alluded to that saying that every closer will blow saves. I suppose I should have worded it differently. The closer is expected to be one of the sharpest pitchers on your staff because of the nature of their task. One inning (usually) not giving up hits, walks, or runs. Hits and walks happen...no one will get around that, but it's the runs that are the most important.

One thing I think about when I'm trying to figure out if a closer is effective is whether the opposing manager is scared of that closer.

 

If you're facing the Twins with Nathan, or the Yankees, you game plan for an 8 inning game. If you're down 1 run in the 7th, you stop playing for the win and you play for the tie. Konerko gets on base, you don't leave him there and hope Q hits the ball out, you take Konerko out for a pinch runner and try to get that game tied up.

 

Against the White Sox, no one's game-planning for the closer, they're game planning to try to beat the setup men.

[Milkman delivers]

And the people crying foul over Bobby hanging a curve were begging him to throw one the past two weeks. Well, he f***ing threw one....

 

Do you think people wanted him to throw a hanging curve?

[LittleHurt05]

It all started last season on Saturday (July or August) vs. Detroit when the Sox were still in the race, despite losing a doubleheader the day before. Jenks had Granderson 0-2 with 2 outs, and he threw him a weak fastball just above the belt on the inside corner, instead of dropping the nasty curve out of the zone. 2009 ended that day and for the most part Jenks has sucked as well.

[SoxFan562004]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...ar=2010&t=p

 

Sorry if these have been posted, I scanned back about 3 pages and didn't seem them, they're about 2/3 down the link, Bobby's Day/Night splits...

 

Day:

 

Games: 19, with 16.2 innings; ERA of 9.18; WHIP of 1.92; OPS against of .882; tOPS against of 146 with a sOPS against of 141 and 9 saves

 

Night:

 

Games: 25, with 23.2 innings; ERA of 2.28; WHIP of 1.14; OPS against of .572; tOPS against of 60 with a sOPS against of 57 and 14 saves.

 

I don't see the blown save stats on the table, but I could just be missing it, but I know yesterdays and the Sunday Twins game were day games.

 

So he is an effective closer during the night and terrible during the days, these stats are so vastly different it is a little amazing.