Ted Lilly traded to Dodgers

[southsider2k5]

Well, sinker ballers would possibly lose their effectiveness pitching in a huge ballpark.

 

Infields aren't different sized.

[daa84]

Well, sinker ballers would possibly lose their effectiveness pitching in a huge ballpark.

how so? the thought is that sinkerballers effectiveness is less correlated to the ballpark, thus they are better suited for small ballparks, but the reverse is certainly not necessarily true

[fathom]

Infields aren't different sized.

 

I wasn't saying every sinker baller would be that way. Some guys who have fly ball totals are also strike out pitchers (like Lilly). Sinker ballers that pitch to contact would struggle in Colorado in the past because there is so much room in the outfield.

[fathom]

how so? the thought is that sinkerballers effectiveness is less correlated to the ballpark, thus they are better suited for small ballparks, but the reverse is certainly not necessarily true

 

See my post to ss2k. Just speaking in general, not for every sinker ball pitcher. Someone like Buehrle would struggle at Target Field, I truly believe.

[chw42]

Sinker ballers have more of an advantage in smaller ballparks because they don't give up as many home runs. You take him to a park where home runs aren't aplenty and he loses that advantage.

[Chisoxfn]

If we are talking sinker-ballers, how about Fausto Carmona?

[daa84]

Sinker ballers have more of an advantage in smaller ballparks because they don't give up as many home runs. You take him to a park where home runs aren't aplenty and he loses that advantage.

correct, but that doesnt cause him to lose his effectiveness.....bigger parks give an advantage to the flyball pitchers we are comparing the sinkerballers to, but it doesnt cause them to "lose their effectiveness" as he said

[witesoxfan]

Ground balls, no matter the size of the infield, will find their way into holes. In smaller outfields, like USCF's, the odds of that ground ball remaining a single are high compared to bigger parks. I saw a ball first hand in that final game in Minnesota that I thought was surely a single that made its way to the wall at Target and it ended up being a double or triple.

 

Anyways, I'm still not a huge fan of dealing Hudson...young pitchers will struggle, and they will struggle to the extent that Hudson has. If you feel that Hudson is available if he struggles tomorrow, you are essentially staking the entirety of his value based on 6 starts (since I'll use the two he made last year too). I'm also not a huge fan of dealing for Lilly, even if it is playing keep away from the Twins. It's entirely possible that he'd refuse a trade to the Twins anyways.

[fathom]

correct, but that doesnt cause him to lose his effectiveness.....bigger parks give an advantage to the flyball pitchers we are comparing the sinkerballers to, but it doesnt cause them to "lose their effectiveness" as he said

 

Should have said lose their advantage, not their effectiveness

[bigruss]

Ground balls, no matter the size of the infield, will find their way into holes. In smaller outfields, like USCF's, the odds of that ground ball remaining a single are high compared to bigger parks. I saw a ball first hand in that final game in Minnesota that I thought was surely a single that made its way to the wall at Target and it ended up being a double or triple.

 

Anyways, I'm still not a huge fan of dealing Hudson...young pitchers will struggle, and they will struggle to the extent that Hudson has. If you feel that Hudson is available if he struggles tomorrow, you are essentially staking the entirety of his value based on 6 starts (since I'll use the two he made last year too). I'm also not a huge fan of dealing for Lilly, even if it is playing keep away from the Twins. It's entirely possible that he'd refuse a trade to the Twins anyways.

Hes struggled, but its not like he was getting crushed (atleast from the innings that I saw). He has shown that he has swing and miss stuff and thats always a good sign of bein able to stay at the ML level.

[balfanman]

ESPN's Park Factor data on Home runs.

Biggest effect on HR this year:

 

#1: U.S. Cellular Field.

#30: Target Field.

 

Not that I really want Ted Lilly, but if we could pitch him in Minnesota for even 1 game it might be worth it.

[soxfan3530]

Now that Oswalt is seemingly off the market, I would expect the Cardinals to make a pretty big push for Lilly the next few days, probably driving his price up to where none of us want anything to do with him.

[chw42]

Now that Oswalt is seemingly off the market, I would expect the Cardinals to make a pretty big push for Lilly the next few days, probably driving his price up to where none of us want anything to do with him.

 

Hendry would much rather trade to the Sox than to the Cardinals.

[Kyyle23]

yeah trading Lilly to the Cardinals would cause absolute mutiny by the Cubs fans. I would think Greinke to the White Sox would have a better shot(and I think the chances of that are miniscule to none)

[Frank_Thomas]

Ken_Rosenthal #WhiteSox exploring hitters other than Dunn, not all LH. Are "all over the place," source says. Also looking for mid-rotation starter. #MLB

18 minutes ago

 

Kinda goes with the Lilly thing being he is a mid rotation starter. The more that comes out the more it looks Kenny will try to aggressively upgrade the offense and rotation , hopefuly. Thank god there is only 3 days left the deadline drives me crazy.

[bighurt574]

Hendry would much rather trade to the Sox than to the Cardinals.

 

Assuming some level of rationality (maybe a mistake), isn't it better for the Cubs to trade Lilly to the Cardinals at this point? Lilly is only under contract for this year, when the Cubs are out of it anyway. They can grab a prospect or two from the Cardinals, potentially coming out ahead after this year. I don't see much downside to a trade within the division in that scenario.

Edited July 29, 2010 by bighurt574

[thedoctor]

Assuming some level of rationality (maybe a mistake), isn't it better for the Cubs to trade Lilly to the Cardinals at this point? Lilly is only under contract for this year, when the Cubs are out of it anyway. They can grab a prospect or two from the Cardinals, potentially coming out ahead after this year. I don't see much downside to a trade within the division in that scenario.

 

under that scenario it doesn't really matter where they trade him, sox or cardinals. but if you are factoring in the cub fanbase's desire to see a team fail the cardinals>>>>>>white sox.

[bighurt574]

under that scenario it doesn't really matter where they trade him, sox or cardinals. but if you are factoring in the cub fanbase's desire to see a team fail the cardinals>>>>>>white sox.

 

It could. If the Cubs land a prospect who makes it to the majors, that's a guy they're taking away from the Cards for several years.

 

I doubt many Cubs fans would get that worked up about a Lilly to the Cardinals trade.

[witesoxfan]

It could. If the Cubs land a prospect who makes it to the majors, that's a guy they're taking away from the Cards for several years.

 

I doubt many Cubs fans would get that worked up about a Lilly to the Cardinals trade.

 

If Ted Lilly helps them win a World Series, they'd be pissed as hell. Probably the same thing for the Sox.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/t...-type-a-status/

 

Fangraphs with an article about Lilly's Type A status, it was written a couple of weeks ago. Looks like he is a borderline Type A at this point. Say we do get him and he accepts, offering him arbitration and having him accept it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Chicago White Sox]

If Ted Lilly helps them win a World Series, they'd be pissed as hell. Probably the same thing for the Sox.

More importantly, a deep playoff run would provide the Cardinals with more revenue that could be used to improve their 2011 team. Unless the Cubs don't plan on competing in 2011, there's a potential downside to helping the Cardinals now.

[beck72]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/t...-type-a-status/

 

Fangraphs with an article about Lilly's Type A status, it was written a couple of weeks ago. Looks like he is a borderline Type A at this point. Say we do get him and he accepts, offering him arbitration and having him accept it wouldn't be the end of the world.

That would be a risk the sox shouldn't take. That would mean having a lot of cash in the rotation if he accepted. I'd rather the sox sign Danks to a nice deal than spend it on Lilly for 2011.

[Balta1701]

That would be a risk the sox shouldn't take. That would mean having a lot of cash in the rotation if he accepted. I'd rather the sox sign Danks to a nice deal than spend it on Lilly for 2011.

If the Sox do trade Hudson...there's pretty much no way around having a lot of cash in the rotation next year unless we want a serious downgrade. What are the odds we'll find anyone to competently fill the 5th starter role (let alone 6th starter) for $2 million as with this year?

[beck72]

If the Sox do trade Hudson...there's pretty much no way around having a lot of cash in the rotation next year unless we want a serious downgrade. What are the odds we'll find anyone to competently fill the 5th starter role (let alone 6th starter) for $2 million as with this year?

That's a big reason I don't think the sox will trade Hudson--unless the sox received a SP to fill his spot. Freddy worked out this year very, very well. But that way of filling the 5th spot with a rehabbing vet hasn't worked well for the sox. Hudson will likely give you stability in the 5th spot for 2011, and potentially more in later years. No other SP in the sox system is even close to being ready.

 

The sox have to add a few younger [ie cheaper], everyday starter type guys to the 25 man roster for 2011. This year it was Santos and Beckham. Next year should be Hudson, maybe Viciedo or Morel. Yet all three are "on the block". The sox can't trade everyone who's near MLB ready.

[Balta1701]

The sox have to add a few younger [ie cheaper], everyday starter type guys to the 25 man roster for 2011. This year it was Santos and Beckham. Next year should be Hudson, maybe Viciedo or Morel. Yet all three are "on the block". The sox can't trade everyone who's near MLB ready.

That's why I "Hope" the Sox don't pull the trigger on any of their top 4ish guys...but I'm the cautious one, and the aggressive one is in the GM's chair, and frankly he's done all right for himself.