White Sox Acquire Edwin Jackson

[witesoxfan]

I don't necessarily disagree on the bolded part Witesoxfan, especially if you mean pure physical ability at this stage of Garcias' career. I happen to think a big part of a players, particularly a pitchers, "talent"is between the ears. Over the years Garcia has shown as much smarts & mental toughness (cajones if you well) than anyone else that I can think of. Taking that into consideration, I personally believe that Garcia has as much "talent" as anyone on the team. Does Jackson? I don't know. I hope so, but we'll have to see.

 

I simply mean physical talent. Freddy Garcia is basically Paul Byrd right now, without the goofy looking face or windup.

 

And in regards to pitchers, Danks and Floyd are #1 and #2.

[pktmotion]

i don't follow the salary stuff as closely as others but what are the odds that the opening day rotation next year is buehrle, peavy, danks, floyd, and jackson?

 

for the purposes of this question, i will say that there are no hiccups in peavy's rehab and he's ready to roll when spring training starts next year.

 

 

Slim to none. If Jackson continues to do really well we could have a valuable offseason trade chip...Or we could retain Jackson and maybe trade another starter. That's an incredibly expensive rotation and I think one of the starters will get traded. The good news is all those guys have tremendous value and could be 1-3# on any team's rotation.

 

Floyd/Danks could bring in a huge hitter. (Votto/Hamilton/Ethier type)

 

Buehrle/Peavy could bring in a good crop of prospects. (more cash we eat the better the package)

 

Jackson(depending on how he ends his season) could bring in some fringe AAA talent. (Alex Gordon/Logan Morrison type).

 

 

One of the starters is going to get traded: exactly who? depends on a lot of things: Can Danks get extended? Can Jackson get extended? Can Sale handle a rotation spot? They will not have the rotation eat nearly half of the payroll.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Slim to none. If Jackson continues to do really well we could have a valuable offseason trade chip...Or we could retain Jackson and maybe trade another starter. That's an incredibly expensive rotation and I think one of the starters will get traded. The good news is all those guys have tremendous value and could be 1-3# on any team's rotation.

 

Floyd/Danks could bring in a huge hitter. (Votto/Hamilton/Ethier type)

 

Buehrle/Peavy could bring in a good crop of prospects. (more cash we eat the better the package)

 

Jackson(depending on how he ends his season) could bring in some fringe AAA talent. (Alex Gordon/Logan Morrison type).

 

 

One of the starters is going to get traded: exactly who? depends on a lot of things: Can Danks get extended? Can Jackson get extended? Can Sale handle a rotation spot? They will not have the rotation eat nearly half of the payroll.

 

Would you trade Danks for Votto straight up? I think I would, considering his contract (or lackthereof)

[caulfield12]

If Jackson pitches really well, why would you trade him for someone who's not even close to a sure prospect?

 

$8 million is not incredibly expensive for a pitcher, it was less than Javy was making...even at the time of that trade, we managed to get a decent looking haul from the Braves, although the jury's far from being out on some of the players we acquired.

 

If Jackson pitches like he's capable of pitching, then it's always possible he's traded next year at the deadline when the leverage is the highest...but you can't trade Floyd, Danks or Jackson until you know what you have in Peavy for next season.

 

The odds of Sale being able to make it as a starter to begin the year in April, 2011 are about 10%, obviously Torres/Harrell/Marquez aren't the solution and Garcia will be a bit too expensive and risky to keep.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If Jackson pitches really well, why would you trade him for someone who's not even close to a sure prospect?

 

$8 million is not incredibly expensive for a pitcher, it was less than Javy was making...even at the time of that trade, we managed to get a decent looking haul from the Braves, although the jury's far from being out on some of the players we acquired.

 

If Jackson pitches like he's capable of pitching, then it's always possible he's traded next year at the deadline when the leverage is the highest...but you can't trade Floyd, Danks or Jackson until you know what you have in Peavy for next season.

 

The odds of Sale being able to make it as a starter to begin the year in April, 2011 are about 10%, obviously Torres/Harrell/Marquez aren't the solution and Garcia will be a bit too expensive and risky to keep.

 

Well, when you take Konerko and AJ off the books, that's $18.25M off the books right there. Peavy will make only $1M more in 2011, than 2010, so that leaves $17M. Buehrle will make the same, Rios will make $2.3 more, so that leaves $15M. Pierre will make $1.5 LESS, so that's back up to $16.5M. Jenks is off the books, so that's $7.5 more. That gets us to $24M. Give Linebrink $.5M more, Teahen $1M more. That's $22.5M now. Danks + Putz + Quentin off the books gives us another $9.7M. So that's now $32.2M. Floyd will make $2.25 more, so down to about $30M. Add Thornton's option we will pick up, and that's down to $27M. Viciedo makes the same, but Kotsay is off the books. That leaves us with $28.5M. Vizquel + Pena give us $2.6M. Alexei makes the same, so we are at about $31M. Garcia off the books saves us $1M, but Castro's option that will be picked up nullifies that. Andruw Jones and Randy Williams off the books adds another $1M. So that brings us to $32M.

 

So with that $32M, add in Jackson's $8.35 M next year, and that leaves us with $23.65M of wiggle room to resign Danks, Quentin, and Putz, not to mention resign some of those bench players (Vizquel/Jones/Kotsay?) and relievers (Pena), and you are really cutting it close.

 

Now that's a very CRUDE way to add and subtract payroll, as there is much more to that (bonuses, minor league players contract, arbitration, raises, ect), but at the bare minimum of cost, we have around $23M to get ALL that done. So I really can't see us keeping Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and Jackson together. At least 1 of them is gone, with Freddy taking the 5th spot, or Chris Sale if he does well in Arizona Fall League + Spring Training.

[Balta1701]

Now that's a very CRUDE way to add and subtract payroll, as there is much more to that (bonuses, minor league players contract, arbitration, raises, ect), but at the bare minimum of cost, we have around $23M to get ALL that done. So I really can't see us keeping Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and Jackson together. At least 1 of them is gone, with Freddy taking the 5th spot, or Chris Sale if he does well in Arizona Fall League + Spring Training.

If we wind up with $20 million in spending room this offseason...that's actually a lot of money and it's a recovery from the situation we were in earlier this year.

 

With an injection of youth (Viciedo, Infante and Santos in the bullpen, the Stealth Elf locking up a bench/utility spot...and Lord only knows with Tyler Flowers at this point)...we're much farther from panic mode than we were earlier this year. There's room there to extend Konerko and AJ if we want, in addition to adding a bullpen arm or two.

[pktmotion]

Would you trade Danks for Votto straight up? I think I would, considering his contract (or lackthereof)

 

Depending on how the organization views Sale, RP or SP. And if they feel Buehrle could give you a couple more productive years, then yeah I would trade Danks.

 

I think you'd have to include a prospect as well. Danks Bros. for Votto would get it done. Remember, Votto still needs to get signed.

[pktmotion]

If Jackson pitches really well, why would you trade him for someone who's not even close to a sure prospect?

 

$8 million is not incredibly expensive for a pitcher, it was less than Javy was making...even at the time of that trade, we managed to get a decent looking haul from the Braves, although the jury's far from being out on some of the players we acquired.

 

If Jackson pitches like he's capable of pitching, then it's always possible he's traded next year at the deadline when the leverage is the highest...but you can't trade Floyd, Danks or Jackson until you know what you have in Peavy for next season.

 

The odds of Sale being able to make it as a starter to begin the year in April, 2011 are about 10%, obviously Torres/Harrell/Marquez aren't the solution and Garcia will be a bit too expensive and risky to keep.

 

If he pitches well, ironically, it hurts his value a bit more. Since his agent is Boras and it becomes increasingly difficult to sign him to an extension. And speaking of contracts he's only signed through for one more year, so any team trading for him would be getting a rental. EJ netting us an Alex Gordon type player is great for us and could pay dividends down the road. I feel the Sox always get more out of other teams "great potential" prospects.

[Jerksticks]

If we make the postseason with this team, I see our payroll growing some. We're in the process of injecting quite a bit of inexpensive, impact youth that we can afford an expensive, veteran rotation. Imagine if we played this well out of the gate we'd probly be up 7-10 games on the Twins right now, thanks entirely to the pitching staff.

 

I don't see why we can't have the big 5 next year and resign Konerko. AJ I have no clue what to do with.

 

Would you guys give Putz the money Jenks is set to make; or at least the amount it costs to resign him?

[BFirebird]

Now that's a very CRUDE way to add and subtract payroll, as there is much more to that (bonuses, minor league players contract, arbitration, raises, ect), but at the bare minimum of cost, we have around $23M to get ALL that done. So I really can't see us keeping Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and Jackson together. At least 1 of them is gone, with Freddy taking the 5th spot, or Chris Sale if he does well in Arizona Fall League + Spring Training.

 

If we wind up with $20 million in spending room this offseason...that's actually a lot of money and it's a recovery from the situation we were in earlier this year.

 

With an injection of youth (Viciedo, Infante and Santos in the bullpen, the Stealth Elf locking up a bench/utility spot...and Lord only knows with Tyler Flowers at this point)...we're much farther from panic mode than we were earlier this year. There's room there to extend Konerko and AJ if we want, in addition to adding a bullpen arm or two.

 

Interesting questions and inside looks at the numbers. KW will definitely have an interesting offseason that is for sure. At this point, I wouldn't mind bringing PK back at a discount but if we could have a lefty bat in his spot instead, the Sox may want that. Viciedo brings an interesting dynamic to the table as well because he almost seems ready. We have not seen him against righties and that may change our minds on that, but he definitely can hit ML lefties...no question.

 

To our resident Payroll expert Kalapse...do you see the Sox being able to keep this rotation as is AND somehow get a productive lefty bat? Do they have the finances for that?

[BigSqwert]

If we don't bring Paulie back I'd love to replace him with a Fielder or Dunn. I realize Fielder will be much tougher since it would be a trade and he's a Boras guy.

[pktmotion]

If we make the postseason with this team, I see our payroll growing some. We're in the process of injecting quite a bit of inexpensive, impact youth that we can afford an expensive, veteran rotation. Imagine if we played this well out of the gate we'd probly be up 7-10 games on the Twins right now, thanks entirely to the pitching staff.

 

I don't see why we can't have the big 5 next year and resign Konerko. AJ I have no clue what to do with.

 

Would you guys give Putz the money Jenks is set to make; or at least the amount it costs to resign him?

 

It's not a question on if we could afford the rotation, it's more a question of how the money could get used more effectively. Your 4-5 starters don't need to be lights out, since they see significantly less games. They just need to be serviceable and that doesn't cost $8M+. There'll be cheaper alternatives in FA and if they're comfortable they could fill out the rotation internally.

 

We could use the money saved to add another bat and we'd get a good return on the starter we end up trading.

Edited August 6, 2010 by pktmotion

[RockRaines]

Would you trade Danks for Votto straight up? I think I would, considering his contract (or lackthereof)

100% Votto is a legit triple crown threat and is an absolute beast.

[witesoxfan]

I'd trade Danks for Votto too, but I strongly doubt the Reds are going to be looking to deal Votto any time soon, and on top of that, I don't think that starting pitching is going to be one of their big areas of need coming up, considering they have Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Wood, and Chapman (and maybe Bailey too), and they have Arroyo and Harang's contracts coming off the books too, totaling $23.5 mill (though they do have to pay $2 mill buyouts to both of them). If anything, I think they'll probably try to lock up Votto long-term this offseason considering he's going to be arbitration eligible for the first time. You don't just up and trade a legitimate MVP candidate when you are this close to putting together a group of players that could win for quite a long time.

[Quin]

Interesting questions and inside looks at the numbers. KW will definitely have an interesting offseason that is for sure. At this point, I wouldn't mind bringing PK back at a discount but if we could have a lefty bat in his spot instead, the Sox may want that. Viciedo brings an interesting dynamic to the table as well because he almost seems ready. We have not seen him against righties and that may change our minds on that, but he definitely can hit ML lefties...no question.

 

To our resident Payroll expert Kalapse...do you see the Sox being able to keep this rotation as is AND somehow get a productive lefty bat? Do they have the finances for that?

 

He has 33 AB's, out of 67, against righties and is hitting .273 with a HR.

 

I'd also trade Danks for Votto, but it would probably take Danks + Viciedo.

 

I'd still do it.

[balfanman]

It's not a question on if we could afford the rotation, it's more a question of how the money could get used more effectively. Your 4-5 starters don't need to be lights out, since they see significantly less games. They just need to be serviceable and that doesn't cost $8M+. There'll be cheaper alternatives in FA and if they're comfortable they could fill out the rotation internally.

 

We could use the money saved to add another bat and we'd get a good return on the starter we end up trading.

 

I wouldn't call the difference of 1 or 2 starts significant.

[SoxAce]

I'd also trade Danks for Votto, but it would probably take Danks + Viciedo.

 

I'd still do it.

 

I'm usually not a fan of trading pitching for 1B (usually the easiest position to fill) but Votto is one of those different cases. I would do it as well thinking long and hard about it, but as wite said, the Reds probably wouldn't. They have a great future as far as pitchers already. I'd bet money though they would love to have Beckham much more-so than Danks.

[iamshack]

I've never understood the "Danks has to be traded" theory. Is it because he turned down the lowball offer by the Sox? Really?

 

Buehrle and his 14 million dollar salary come off the books after 2011. Danks will be in his last year of arbitration at the start of the 2012 season. I'll be somewhat shocked if Danks isn't locked up long term before the start of 2012.

I don't think it has anything to do with Danks, in particular. I think the market for young stud pitchers, especially lefthanders is so ridiculous that it requires you to have a lot of cheap pieces elsewhere on your roster if you want to keep a guy or a few guys like Danks around. Secondly, I think that most of the time these ginormous contracts for pitchers end up coming back to haunt you.

 

The Peavy contract makes this awfully difficult too.

 

My instinct would be to trade him after this season.

[chw42]

I don't think it has anything to do with Danks, in particular. I think the market for young stud pitchers, especially lefthanders is so ridiculous that it requires you to have a lot of cheap pieces elsewhere on your roster if you want to keep a guy or a few guys like Danks around. Secondly, I think that most of the time these ginormous contracts for pitchers end up coming back to haunt you.

 

The Peavy contract makes this awfully difficult too.

 

My instinct would be to trade him after this season.

 

If you can get a Nick Markakis-type player back for him, I say why not?

 

Sell high on Danks.

[iamshack]

If you can get a Nick Markakis-type player back for him, I say why not?

 

Sell high on Danks.

It'd be funny to trade him back to Texas this offseason, wouldn't it?

[southsider2k5]

It'd be funny to trade him back to Texas this offseason, wouldn't it?

 

There might not be a better place to get hitters from.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Kenny should be shot if he trades Danks.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Would you trade Danks for Votto straight up? I think I would, considering his contract (or lackthereof)

 

Bye, bye, Mr. Danks. There's about 3 or 4 players in the NL I'd take over Votto right now. He's THAT good.

[southsider2k5]

Kenny should be shot if he trades Danks.

 

No, he should be shot if he lets him walk away for nothing.

[nitetrain8601]

Honestly, it doesn't make sense to trade Danks in terms of the reasonings people here are bringing up. And I definitely would not trade him for just Nick Markakis. I would need a stud in return. Think Carlos Beltran right before he was traded to Houston.

 

Peavy and Buehrle will be due for new contracts when it's time to resign Danks. You can give one of them up or have them sign for lesser deals(which they should be willing to do) to make room for Danks. Peavy might get overpaid by someone, but that's on him.

 

Jackson

Danks

Floyd

 

that's a good 1-2-3. Now before we get too ahead, let's see how they perform the rest of the year and even next year. Unless you get a knockout deal or can use Danks in a huge deal that makes us significantly better, it makes no sense to start talks of trading him.