hogan873 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) Here's how to salvage the day. Trade Jackson and pay some of his salary to the Cubs for Lilly and Lee! How bout it. Pass me a beer, Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) Yes, they are. Great stuff, yadda, yadda. Performance does not back it up. Edwin didn't go from Tampa to Detroit to Arizona to us because he's really good. Jackson's still young. When we got Javy, he was nearing his 30s. I'm in no way defending this deal, but I don't know if that's a great comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:39 PM) Thats why they are gonna trade for Adam Dunn and win the World Series! Then a rough year like 2007 will be much easier to handle next season. Ride the Wave out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) Somebody needs to pull up some old Javy threads. I can't believe people are supporting this abomination of a trade. You sir, are negative. And have been negative for some time now. Would you like a hug?.....I gave a cyber hug to T R U the other day and he has been a bowl of joy lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Guzman was traded to the rangers IMO to make room for morel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:46 PM) Guzman was traded to the rangers IMO to make room for morel. I doubt that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:45 PM) Jackson's still young. When we got Javy, he was nearing his 30s. I'm in no way defending this deal, but I don't know if that's a great comparison. Given that Javy had multiple years of success in the bigs, I agree that it's not a very good comparison. Somebody mentioned flipping Jackson to the Cubs for Lilly. I actually like that idea. Edited July 30, 2010 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:34 PM) The Jackson trade is what it is. Hudson obviously was unable to land us a better cheaper pitcher, so the Sox got what they could. Would I rather have Jackson for the rest of the season than Hudson? Yes So the trade isnt bad for the Sox no matter how you much doom and gloom people want to say. Of course Hudson wouldn't land us a better, cheaper starting pitcher. Who the f***, in their right mind, would do that? Whenever someone says, "it is what it is," I've come to expect some funny explanations afterward. Hawk uses it all the time when he just doesn't have the patience to explain what's happening in front of him. I just want to switch scenarios here -- if we had Jackson and traded him for a pitcher of Hudson's caliber (which, may be nothing more than a #3/#4), while saving 7.5+ million, everyone here would be ecstatic. It may not be a bad trade in the sense one pitcher drastically outperforms the other, but ultimately, how much have we improved? Now, is this improvement worth a net increase in payroll of 7.5 million come next season? Are we doing this deal to perhaps improve one victory? And no, I don't want to hear you or anyone use that as justification, with some line of bulls*** following it about 'one game being the difference!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:46 PM) Guzman was traded to the rangers IMO to make room for morel. Or he was traded because the Nats suck and Guzman is going to be a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) Really Lilly and Lee? That would be a brutal deal. As for Hudson and Jackson being equal, I guess that almost 1:1 bb:k ratio Hudson is rocking really impresses people? Hudson faced 71 batters, 28 of them reached base. Im sorry but if the Sox were going to the playoffs with Hudson/Garcia at the 4 spot they were in major trouble. Jackson may not be the best pitcher, but hes a serviceable 4 with (imo) more upside than Hudson. (edit) A better cheaper pitcher than Jackson. If we traded Jackson in a pennant race for Hudson, Id be furious. Edited July 30, 2010 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) Jackson's still young. When we got Javy, he was nearing his 30s. I'm in no way defending this deal, but I don't know if that's a great comparison. Javy also had put up a few years of much better production than Jackson has... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) In the other thread, Russ, name the other teams that have been as active as the White Sox have been over the past 6-7 years in getting big players that become available. This is some fantasy you seem to have that there are other teams out there constantly loaded with prospects and acquiring veteran all-stars every year simply with a wave of their magic wand. This is a very good point that gets glossed over all too often. People are always comlpaining about the Sox farm system and the teams bdget, but yet year in an year out they are able to aquire players they need. Whether it's Jackson, Peavy, Freddy, Thome, Rios, Griffey, Swisher, Quentin, or whomever else you want to throw in there. When Kenny wants someone he is able to get them. It may not always be the most conventional way, but it gets done. Yes, everybody would like a deeper farm system, but the system has been able to produce what it needs for the big league club, and when you have someone like Kenny who values his prospects in a very certain way, this system will probably always lack depth. To me it makes more sense than holding on to prospects for too long like Fields and Anderson, and Kenny rarely gets burned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 White Sox still discussing Dunn and Berkman but a scout told Mark Gonzalez Chisox chasing a reliever as well via Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) Or he was traded because the Nats suck and Guzman is going to be a free agent. and Kinsler pulled his groin muscle and that's an injury that can linger and linger, especially if they play a team in October that is in cold weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (IceCreamPants @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:45 PM) You sir, are negative. And have been negative for some time now. Would you like a hug?.....I gave a cyber hug to T R U the other day and he has been a bowl of joy lately. Wrong, you OFFERED me a cyber hug and I refused.. I would only accept a cyber hug from Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 From Bowden's Twitter: Bill Ladson reports that if Adam Dunn is traded that he thinks it will be to the Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 You're trying to make me walk outside and kill something, aren't you? Well if we trade Jackson in a Dunn deal, our rotation is really s*** now. Really bad. So we need to get a pitcher back along with a slugger. So I thought Lilly and Lee would be the key. I don't wanna see Torres on the mound the next two months. I guess the guy we are pitching tonight could be the savior, however. Maybe he's a bulldog like somebody said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:45 PM) Jackson's still young. When we got Javy, he was nearing his 30s. I'm in no way defending this deal, but I don't know if that's a great comparison. Javy's been the ultimate enigma since the second half of 2004 (he was 27 or 28 that year). It didn't just start when we got him. QUOTE (IceCreamPants @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:45 PM) You sir, are negative. And have been negative for some time now. Would you like a hug?.....I gave a cyber hug to T R U the other day and he has been a bowl of joy lately. My bad. Let me grab a bowl of ice cream with some colorful sprinkles and celebrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 07:48 PM) Of course Hudson wouldn't land us a better, cheaper starting pitcher. Who the f***, in their right mind, would do that? Whenever someone says, "it is what it is," I've come to expect some funny explanations afterward. Hawk uses it all the time when he just doesn't have the patience to explain what's happening in front of him. I just want to switch scenarios here -- if we had Jackson and traded him for a pitcher of Hudson's caliber (which, may be nothing more than a #3/#4), while saving 7.5+ million, everyone here would be ecstatic. It may not be a bad trade in the sense one pitcher drastically outperforms the other, but ultimately, how much have we improved? Now, is this improvement worth a net increase in payroll of 7.5 million come next season? Are we doing this deal to perhaps improve one victory? And no, I don't want to hear you or anyone use that as justification, with some line of bulls*** following it about 'one game being the difference!" But...one game could be the difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:49 PM) Wrong, you OFFERED me a cyber hug and I refused.. I would only accept a cyber hug from Greg He must have cyber hug raped you then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:50 PM) Well if we trade Jackson in a Dunn deal, our rotation is really s*** now. Really bad. So we need to get a pitcher back along with a slugger. So I thought Lilly and Lee would be the key. I don't wanna see Torres on the mound the next two months. I guess the guy we are pitching tonight could be the savior, however. Maybe he's a bulldog like somebody said. What is the point of acquiring Lee exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:48 PM) If we traded Jackson in a pennant race for Hudson, Id be furious. If we were in a pennant race and our 5th starter was a guy with a history of bad 2nd halves and an ERA over 5, and we traded him for a rookie and in the process saved ourselves $10 million+, I don't think I'd mind one bit. Reminds me of how sending Garcia to Philly for Gio and Floyd was structured, except that one was done after a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:49 PM) Wrong, you OFFERED me a cyber hug and I refused.. I would only accept a cyber hug from Greg lol We can go with that story but we all know greg is busy hugging DeWayne Wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) Given that Javy had multiple years of success in the bigs, I agree that it's not a very good comparison. Somebody mentioned flipping Jackson to the Cubs for Lilly. I actually like that idea. That didn't stop us from killing him towards the end of '08. Take away Jackson's first half of '09, and he's been very mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:50 PM) Well if we trade Jackson in a Dunn deal, our rotation is really s*** now. Really bad. So we need to get a pitcher back along with a slugger. So I thought Lilly and Lee would be the key. I don't wanna see Torres on the mound the next two months. I guess the guy we are pitching tonight could be the savior, however. Maybe he's a bulldog like somebody said. Ted Lilly's about the one pitcher we could add that would piss me off more than Jackson. Lee would be a legitimate upgrade, Lilly would, IMO, be the biggest possible downgrade we could make this season, because he'd be a howitzer in the Cell. (Someone said howitzer!) If you could give me Lee over Kotsay, ok, that's at least a legit upgrade...but my jaw will drop when Ozzie stops giving Kotsay at-bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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