Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:15 PM) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. And now he's been traded/dumped by 3 teams in less than 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Yankees to get Dunn? The Rays are convinced that the Yankees will acquire Dunn, Peter Gammons told WEEI.com. Gammons suspects that if the Nationals trade Dunn, the Yankees will acquire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) If somebody starts a thread, 'do you like this trade as it currently stands?' I would say, "No," for my answer. Wouldn't you all say the same? No sir, I don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. Yeah, in like 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) Wharris, Dont you know Brandon Allen was Ruth and Hudson was Cy Young. We gave away everything for nothing! DAMN THEM! (haha) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. 6 years is a long ass time in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) Yankees to get Dunn? The Rays are convinced that the Yankees will acquire Dunn, Peter Gammons told WEEI.com. Gammons suspects that if the Nationals trade Dunn, the Yankees will acquire him. And about 30 minutes ago another reporter said that if anyone lands Dunn it's the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 You can say whatever you want, but id rather the Sox try and win this year, then worry about the salary situation next year. Who the hell knows what will happen, if you have one of the hottest teams in baseball, you try and win with it. You dont pass on a player you think will improve your team because: "Well the other guy is cheaper and maybe 3 years from now hell be our 4th starter" Ill let next year play out when its next year. For all we know Jackson comes to the Sox, dominates and then they flip him for a deal 10x better than Hudson. It cant rain all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) No that presupposes that some how the White Sox could have used the money that Jackson will receive this year for a bat. The more likely scenario is that Hudson could not get the White Sox anything better than Jackson. And salary is relevant overall, but not in the context of this trade. Reinsdorf decided that they could afford Jackson. If salary was an issue they would have gotten money back or not done the trade. The Sox clearly feel they can afford this salary, therefore it is not relevant. Yes they do feel they can afford this salary. But the point is they cannot afford this salary and something else, whatever that something may or could have been. That goes for this year and next year because now they have $8M less to spend than they would have if the trade was not made. The Sox may believe that the $8M is best spent on Jackson. I disagree because I think we need a hitter more, both now and next season. The upgrade over Hudson in my mind is minimal, if at all. Whereas the upgrade over Kotsay/Jones would be huge whoever that $8M player was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) Wharris, Dont you know Brandon Allen was Ruth and Hudson was Cy Young. We gave away everything for nothing! DAMN THEM! (haha) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. Hyperbole serves no purpose but to aggravate others. Such a condescending way to discuss a topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:17 PM) And about 30 minutes ago another reporter said that if anyone lands Dunn it's the White Sox. I honestly don't listen to a word out of Gammons' mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 The upgrade over Hudson in my mind is minimal, if at all. Whereas the upgrade over Kotsay/Jones would be huge whoever that $8M player was. That's the bottom line for me on this deal as well. That's why I give the deal a "No." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linnwood Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 @JimBowdenXMFOX: Ed Price reporting that Rays Special Assignment Scout has been watching Adam Dunn all week....they have the package..yes they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) Wharris, Dont you know Brandon Allen was Ruth and Hudson was Cy Young. We gave away everything for nothing! DAMN THEM! (haha) Anyways for all the love Hudson is getting, people seem to forget that Jackson was basically untouchable in the Dodger farm system and was considered one of the top future pitchers in all of baseball not to long ago. talk about irrelevant. I doubt the Dodgers regret losing him at all. I suppose you are going to tell us next that he beat Randy Johnson in his first start so he must be better than him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Since I'm too lazy to go figure it out, my bigger question is this: How in gods name did Edwin Jackson scale up to a 8.5mil payday in 2011 after seeing what he has done career-wise?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 At the end of the season I think we all would be in favor of a trade for Jackson back to them for Hudson. That's my gut feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:20 PM) talk about irrelevant. I doubt the Dodgers regret losing him at all. I suppose you are going to tell us next that he beat Randy Johnson in his first start so he must be better than him too. Well doc, right now he probably is better than Randy Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksox13 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I don't think that Hudson is going to be any type of special pitcher moving forward. Probably a high end #4 starter, slightly over .500. My issue is that Jackson isn't a special pitcher either, but is going to cost the Sox 15 times more than Hudson would've to get you around the same production. If there isn't a move to swing Jackson in a deal for a big time hitter, this was a big mistake by Williams. We'll know within 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Kalapse, When 90% of the posters are condescending towards me, I cant help myself. If people want to imply that I dont understand f***ing salary, the most simple thing in baseball, then Im going to give it back in spades. If people want to believe that Hudson is better than Jackson, thats one thing. But to suggest that some how the Sox dont understand the potential consequences of adding more pitching salary to a team in need of hitting, is just mind boggling. At least give the Sox management some credit, that maybe they know a little bit what they are doing. Thats all I ask from posters, juts give them a shred of credit. You dont have to agree, but KW has been responsible for more success than any other GM in my life. He at least deserves some deference in his decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) Very true Hawksox, but if we move Jackson for a hitter, we also need a good starter ... badly! Badger makes some good points IMO as always. Edited July 30, 2010 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:17 PM) You can say whatever you want, but id rather the Sox try and win this year, then worry about the salary situation next year. Who the hell knows what will happen, if you have one of the hottest teams in baseball, you try and win with it. You dont pass on a player you think will improve your team because: "Well the other guy is cheaper and maybe 3 years from now hell be our 4th starter" Ill let next year play out when its next year. For all we know Jackson comes to the Sox, dominates and then they flip him for a deal 10x better than Hudson. It cant rain all the time. I'm in general agreement with your theory. I'd like to say the hell with it this year and sort the other things out next year too. This veteran market right now leaves a ton of flexibility to piece things together on fairly short notice, so I am with you there. But that certainly doesn't make the $8 million go away! That doesn't mean it is irrelevant and does not exist! You trade for players in a marketplace, and you pay a price or sell at a price that is set by the market. So the fact that Jackson makes what he does and Hudson makes what he does certainly affects their value as tradable commodities. It just seems as though 1) this was a risk by Kenny to just go grab one piece that the Nats wanted and he is daring them to hold on to Dunn and assuming he can live with it either way; or 2) they really love Jackson enough that they are very certain that they can make him produce significantly better than Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:20 PM) Since I'm too lazy to go figure it out, my bigger question is this: How in gods name did Edwin Jackson scale up to a 8.5mil payday in 2011 after seeing what he has done career-wise?? He put up a .279 BABIP last year, .249 in the first half of the season, and as such, combined with Comerica being a difficult hitter's park, he went 7-4 with a 2.52 ERA in the first half of 2009. Sure it's an extreme statistical anomaly, but when a guy who throws 96 does that, he gets his arbitration years bought out pretty readily no matter how much he stinks in the 2nd half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) I don't know who said that, but that is irrelevant. It's about as irrelevant as when you said you would laugh when Hudson never becomes anything good. That really doesn't matter at all. Hudson can become a stud or he can become Josh Fogg, who the hell knows at this point? But what we do know is that he was our top prospect, or maybe no. 2 behind Viciedo, and it was dumb to trade him for a pitcher who is older, a lot more expensive, and as big of a question mark as Hudson is. It doesn't make any f***ing sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 04:23 PM) 2) they really love Jackson enough that they are very certain that they can make him produce significantly better than Hudson. The only way I buy this deal is if Cooper's been saying the same thing about Jackson that he was saying about Thornton and 10 minutes in the bullpen turns him into a vastly better pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) If somebody starts a thread, 'do you like this trade as it currently stands?' I would say, "No," for my answer. Wouldn't you all say the same? I'd say YES. We didn't sell high on D2 and now look what's happened; he's a borderline non-prospect this year. Hudson wasn't counted on as a top prospect until mid-summer last year. I like selling high because to me it seems like we got EJax for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 You trade for players in a marketplace, and you pay a price or sell at a price that is set by the market. So the fact that Jackson makes what he does and Hudson makes what he does certainly affects their value as tradable commodities. It just seems as though 1) this was a risk by Kenny to just go grab one piece that the Nats wanted and he is daring them to hold on to Dunn and assuming he can live with it either way; or 2) they really love Jackson enough that they are very certain that they can make him produce significantly better than Hudson. And it should be clear that on todays market, Jackson at 8mil was worth more than Hudson. KW isnt going out and doing other teams favors. This was all he could get for Hudson. Id rather have Jackson out there every 5 days than Hudson this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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