greg775 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Wouldn't you all agree if for some reason Viciedo played in 3/4s of the games the rest of the way, we actually HAVE added something to the team? The problem is everybody figures, probably rightly so, he will be sent down or not play much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:07 PM) Extending Jackson? Where's that "Shooting myself" smiley? Judging by his history, I have no problem giving Don Cooper a shot at who he wants to fix. With his arm, Jackson is always tradable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:08 PM) Hopefully Viciedo can become Kendry Morales/1B because, I don't think he sticks at 3B. He's not going to play 3B. The Sox already moved him to 1B. Paulie is lighting it up so 3B or DH and for some reason they refuse to DH him, are his only options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) Extending Jackson? Where's that "Shooting myself" smiley? The Sox are going to try and get Danks or someone else to sign a deal to keep control of pitchers. Extending Jackson might not be a bad thing. But than again, I tend to like Edwin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 03:42 PM) Always nice when someone uses win loss record for a pitcher to try and make a point. If he knows how to pitch well in a pennant race then why was he so god damn awful in the 2nd half of last season? He went 7-4 in 17 appearances between the beginning of July and October. His last two outings were vs. the White Sox, who obviously had his number for one reason or another. Take out those two starts against the team he now pitches for and he was as consistent as the rest of his season. In those 17 appearances, he only went less than 5 innings once, less than 6 innings only 4 times. He's a proven innings eater. He keeps his teams in the ball game long enough to get to the bullpen, and with a bullpen like the Sox, that's just fine for a 5th starter. His stats vs. the White Sox throughout his career are substantially worse than almost every other team in baseball. If you're talking about how "damn awful" he was against the Sox at the end of last season, then I'd say that's a pretty small sample size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:08 PM) I'm not apologizing for Kenny. I don't think you'll ever find me saying that not signing Thome was a good idea. But I'm also not going to act like a spoiled 5 year old and cry about something that we have absolutely no hope of ever changing. You guys are crucifying our FO for not making a move that no other GM in baseball made either. You have been insisting for the past week that IF we had other the tools available to us that all these other organizations with good farm systems have, we would be able to make a move like this no problem. And yet, none of those GMs made this move either. I'm not trying to be a KW apologist, I am trying to be reasonable and use common sense. How would you defend all of the at bats Mark Kotsay gets that Dayan Viciedo should be getting? That's a current issue that is being handled poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 05:10 PM) The Sox are going to try and get Danks or someone else to sign a deal to keep control of pitchers. Extending Jackson might not be a bad thing. But than again, I tend to like Edwin. If Coop can work a miracle, sure, maybe there's a ridiculous savings bit there because we extend him early. Then again, I think he's a fringe #5 starter right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) That plan worked like a charm this year. I still think this team has a shot. Jackson has the ability to be a pretty good pitcher and I feel we have a strong defense and strong bullpen. If the bats are hot at the right time this team could win it all. But I like Danks/Floyd/Jackson more than some. And we all know I am Floyds biggest fan. I think Floyd is one of the best starters in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:09 PM) Judging by his history, I have no problem giving Don Cooper a shot at who he wants to fix. With his arm, Jackson is always tradable. Even if Coop can "fix" Jackson, I have no interest in keeping him at the cost of Danks or Floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 09:10 PM) The Sox are going to try and get Danks or someone else to sign a deal to keep control of pitchers. Extending Jackson might not be a bad thing. But than again, I tend to like Edwin. Boras would never let Jackson sign an extension if he pitches well for the Sox. He'll test free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 05:09 PM) With his arm, Jackson is always tradable. If he's got an ERA above 5.5 next summer and he's getting paid $8.5 million for the full season, no one's going to want him. They'll want him for less than the Tribe got for Westbrook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Is Morel really ready to play everyday offensively? Agreed that KW will do the same thing he did in the past with our pitching staff and challenge them to sign extensions...both with Jackson and Danks. If Danks can get him a hitter and young starter with upside, then he might have no choice because the contract numbers for him are going to make Dunn's pale in comparison. OTOH, if he waits for Mitchell to be in ready in 2012 (that's really really pushing it developmentally), that might be the year we're best positioned overall from an offensive/pitching and payroll standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 05:11 PM) I still think this team has a shot. Jackson has the ability to be a pretty good pitcher and I feel we have a strong defense and strong bullpen. If the bats are hot at the right time this team could win it all. But I like Danks/Floyd/Jackson more than some. And we all know I am Floyds biggest fan. I think Floyd is one of the best starters in all of baseball. This team certainly has a shot, but let's not pretend that "we'll add another big bat at the deadline!" is a decent strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:11 PM) I still think this team has a shot. Jackson has the ability to be a pretty good pitcher and I feel we have a strong defense and strong bullpen. If the bats are hot at the right time this team could win it all. But I like Danks/Floyd/Jackson more than some. And we all know I am Floyds biggest fan. I think Floyd is one of the best starters in all of baseball. I've been right there with you for a long time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I don't know, in the winter, teams with money might actually want a guy like Jackson. As long as he's not hurt, there should be a market for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Maybe they are bringing Dayan along slowly so that he can be a big contributor down the stretch? There is more than 1 strategy on how to handle a young player, and not everyone believes you should just throw them in the fire and hope for the best. Ruining Kotsay's confidence isnt a big deal, ruining Dayan's could end his career. So do I want Dayan to play more? Absolutely. Am I going to make a huge deal out of it while the Sox are in 1st place? Absolutely not. Its not how you get there, its how you finish. If Dayan is raking down the stretch, who cares how he got there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) If Coop can work a miracle, sure, maybe there's a ridiculous savings bit there because we extend him early. Then again, I think he's a fringe #5 starter right now. How is he a fringe 5th starter? 2008 he was rock solid in Tampa and in 09 he was freaking real good in Detroit. Neither of those years was he anything remotely close to a 5th starter. His numbers aren't great this year, but Arizona is just a s***ty place to pitch (ball gets little movement and everything jumps out of that place; it is much harder to pitch at than the cell, imo). Jackson has proven he can pitch in spurts and I believe a lot in Cooper. Jackson at 26 still has some upside, imo, and Coop will be the best pitching coach he's ever worked with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 05:13 PM) Is Morel really ready to play everyday offensively? No. But he could be by the middle of next year if he keeps this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:06 PM) Mitchell is probably a year away as well. That seems incredibly optimistic. He was one of the more raw college players in the draft and now he's missed an entire year of baseball. Even if he is able to play winterball this year you'd have to think he'd start in High A next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (TomPickle @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 05:14 PM) That seems incredibly optimistic. He was one of the more raw college players in the draft and now he's missed an entire year of baseball. Even if he is able to play winterball this year you'd have to think he'd start in High A next season. Mitchell being ready next year would require the kind of jump that Hudson made last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:13 PM) This team certainly has a shot, but let's not pretend that "we'll add another big bat at the deadline!" is a decent strategy. Trying to do big things in the AL with a mediocre offense is really hard. Not impossible (see: 2005), but VERY difficult. It would have been hard enough as it is, and now that Edwin Jackson is in Jake Peavy's former rotation spot, it'll be that much harder. And with a manager who gives Dayan Viciedo at bats to Mark Kotsay, it makes the offense that much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:12 PM) Even if Coop can "fix" Jackson, I have no interest in keeping him at the cost of Danks or Floyd. Its not about wanting to pick Danks over Jackson. It is about recognizing that you have a good chance of Danks walking away for nothing, and having a couple of years of control of Danks could bring you a huge haul from somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 10:13 PM) Maybe they are bringing Dayan along slowly so that he can be a big contributor down the stretch? There is more than 1 strategy on how to handle a young player, and not everyone believes you should just throw them in the fire and hope for the best. Ruining Kotsay's confidence isnt a big deal, ruining Dayan's could end his career. So do I want Dayan to play more? Absolutely. Am I going to make a huge deal out of it while the Sox are in 1st place? Absolutely not. Its not how you get there, its how you finish. If Dayan is raking down the stretch, who cares how he got there? That's a good post. Only disagreement is I think he's been brought along slow enough and probably is ready to play more. And we need the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:11 PM) I still think this team has a shot. Jackson has the ability to be a pretty good pitcher and I feel we have a strong defense and strong bullpen. If the bats are hot at the right time this team could win it all. But I like Danks/Floyd/Jackson more than some. And we all know I am Floyds biggest fan. I think Floyd is one of the best starters in all of baseball. There are a lot of numbers that say this is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Have we ever picked up a pitcher with great stuff but needed some tweaking and that guy has turned it around that same season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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