White Sox make no last minute deals

[southsider2k5]

Maybe they are bringing Dayan along slowly so that he can be a big contributor down the stretch?

 

There is more than 1 strategy on how to handle a young player, and not everyone believes you should just throw them in the fire and hope for the best.

 

Ruining Kotsay's confidence isnt a big deal, ruining Dayan's could end his career.

 

So do I want Dayan to play more?

 

Absolutely.

 

Am I going to make a huge deal out of it while the Sox are in 1st place?

 

Absolutely not.

 

Its not how you get there, its how you finish. If Dayan is raking down the stretch, who cares how he got there?

 

I'm glad I am not alone in thinking this way. We all saw how Dayan was BRUTAL in his adjustments to AA and AAA. What does it hurt to pick his match up's wisely instead of having a pretty significant risk of having a horrible adjustment period that puts him back behind where he was?

[greg775]

Have we ever picked up a pitcher with great stuff but needed some tweaking and that guy has turned it around that same season?

 

Ken Kravek and LaMarr Hoyt.

Just kidding, but I liked your question and thought I'd start with an answer so somebody else would.

[fathom]

I still think this team has a shot. Jackson has the ability to be a pretty good pitcher and I feel we have a strong defense and strong bullpen. If the bats are hot at the right time this team could win it all. But I like Danks/Floyd/Jackson more than some.

 

And we all know I am Floyds biggest fan. I think Floyd is one of the best starters in all of baseball.

 

This offense is good enough at home to compete with the big boys, but our offense on the road has been putrid it seems. With the teams we'd likely face in the postseason (NYY, Tampa, Texas), you better be able to score some runs.

[Soxbadger]

The fact Kenny wouldnt trade Dayan should say enough about what the Sox feel about him as a player. They are just taking their time with him because I think they believe that he has a chance to be a good player. After Beckham struggled this year, I think they are trying to be more cautious because a lot of the game is mental for young players.

 

First you get Dayan a ton of success against lefties. Then you start having him face tougher right handed pitching.

[southsider2k5]

Have we ever picked up a pitcher with great stuff but needed some tweaking and that guy has turned it around that same season?

 

Bobby Jenks comes to mind, as does Matt Thornton.

[Balta1701]

How is he a fringe 5th starter? 2008 he was rock solid in Tampa and in 09 he was freaking real good in Detroit. Neither of those years was he anything remotely close to a 5th starter. His numbers aren't great this year, but Arizona is just a s***ty place to pitch (ball gets little movement and everything jumps out of that place; it is much harder to pitch at than the cell, imo).

Rock solid in 2008? He put up an ERA of 4.42 and a WHIP of 1.51. He was so rock solid that they dropped him from their playoff rotation and stuck him in the bullpen. I think that's basically the definition of a back of the rotation starter, the guy who gets dumped from the rotation.

 

Last year, he had a really good first half...keyed by Comerica park and a .249 BABIP. Every other season in his career he's had a .315ish BABIP against him and that's given him an ERA around 5. In the 2nd half of 2005, he had a BABIP around .315 and wound up with...an ERA around 5.

 

He's an ERA ~5 pitcher. Coop might be able to fix that, but right now, he's an ERA 5ish pitcher.

[iamshack]

How would you defend all of the at bats Mark Kotsay gets that Dayan Viciedo should be getting? That's a current issue that is being handled poorly.

Now that is an Ozzie issue.

 

I can't and don't try and defend Ozzie, other than to say that we often forget that the guy is managing human beings and not just stat sheets.

 

That being the case, I would not be giving Kotsay the ABs he is being given, and once Teahan comes back, he would be given all of Kotsay's ABs minus the random few innings that Pauly gets off.

[Balta1701]

We all saw how Dayan was BRUTAL in his adjustments to AA and AAA.

It took him about 3 weeks to adapt to AAA and he was putting up an OPS of nearly 1.000 after that time.

 

His first season, I'll grant you. You're wrong about AAA.

[Chisoxfn]

This team certainly has a shot, but let's not pretend that "we'll add another big bat at the deadline!" is a decent strategy.

Buying at the deadline is a perfectly fine strategy, especially when there weren't a ton of great fits at the deadline. You guys all talk about Thome, but he isn't exactly a world beater. He'd clearly be a lot better than Kotsay but he still hasn't been that amazing and no one could have even assumed he'd put up the numbers he has thus far this year.

 

I liked some of the bats this off-season, but quite frankly, outside of Vladdy none of the cheaper DH options have lit the world on fire. I would have loved Matsui, he hasn't exactly been stellar either.

 

The reality is we don't have a huge budget and our team was built to have a studly rotation, good defense, and nice bullpen. That can win a whole lot of games and our offense isn't near as bad as it was for the first two months of the season. It has issues, but a lot of teams have issues.

[whitesoxfan101]

Bobby Jenks comes to mind, as does Matt Thornton.

 

Life is a lot different in the bullpen than in the starting rotation.

[Balta1701]

Have we ever picked up a pitcher with great stuff but needed some tweaking and that guy has turned it around that same season?

Does Gavin Floyd count?

[caulfield12]

Floyd has an ERA of just a tick higher than 1.00 since June 9th, right?

 

Clearly, he's been one of the best starters in baseball that stretch....now of course I'd still trade him for Josh Johnson, but there's not more than 5 other pitchers in game today you'd rather have.

 

The only question (like with Contreras in 05/06) is how long he can sustain this level of pitching.

[Dick Allen]

How is he a fringe 5th starter? 2008 he was rock solid in Tampa and in 09 he was freaking real good in Detroit. Neither of those years was he anything remotely close to a 5th starter. His numbers aren't great this year, but Arizona is just a s***ty place to pitch (ball gets little movement and everything jumps out of that place; it is much harder to pitch at than the cell, imo).

 

Jackson has proven he can pitch in spurts and I believe a lot in Cooper. Jackson at 26 still has some upside, imo, and Coop will be the best pitching coach he's ever worked with.

I don't think people realize how talented Jackson is. He was once considered a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, made his major league debut when he was 19 and seems fully recovered from surgery. If they have found a flaw that's easily correctible, he's going to be a pretty popular guy.

[Balta1701]

Buying at the deadline is a perfectly fine strategy, especially when there weren't a ton of great fits at the deadline. You guys all talk about Thome, but he isn't exactly a world beater. He'd clearly be a lot better than Kotsay but he still hasn't been that amazing and no one could have even assumed he'd put up the numbers he has thus far this year.

No, but it was pretty darn safe to assume that Kotsay would be exactly this bad.

[Balta1701]

I don't think people realize how talented Jackson is. He was once considered a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, made his major league debut when he was 19 and seems fully recovered from surgery. If they have found a flaw that's easily correctible, he's going to be a pretty popular guy.

If 3 other teams haven't corrected that flaw, then Cooper is better than any of us ever dreamed.

[greg775]

You guys all talk about Thome, but he isn't exactly a world beater. He'd clearly be a lot better than Kotsay but he still hasn't been that amazing and no one could have even assumed he'd put up the numbers he has thus far this year.

 

I liked some of the bats this off-season, but quite frankly, outside of Vladdy none of the cheaper DH options have lit the world on fire. I would have loved Matsui, he hasn't exactly been stellar either.

 

Not a bad point. We could have Matsui easily and be b****ing about him. I still think some of the Thome lovers, if they will be honest, would admit they were bashing him at times last season.

Edited July 31, 2010 by greg775

[Balta1701]

Floyd has an ERA of just a tick higher than 1.00 since June 9th, right?

He's given up 8 ER in his last 10 starts.

[Chisoxfn]

Mitchell being ready next year would require the kind of jump that Hudson made last year.

Mitchell is a year out. He'll spend all of next year in the minors and than if all goes well be ready. Agressive, certainly, possible, absolutely. Obviously it is very dependent on him being healthy though, which is a major ?.

[Balta1701]

Not a bad point. We could have Matsui easily and be b****ing about him.

14 HR, .752 OPS, the Halos have even used him in the field some because of injuries.

 

Yeah, he'd have been overpaid if we'd beaten them out for him. But that's still 100 points of OPS better than Kotsay. That's probably still a win or two. That's breathing room.

[fathom]

Buying at the deadline is a perfectly fine strategy, especially when there weren't a ton of great fits at the deadline. You guys all talk about Thome, but he isn't exactly a world beater. He'd clearly be a lot better than Kotsay but he still hasn't been that amazing and no one could have even assumed he'd put up the numbers he has thus far this year.

 

Since you brought up Thome, he would be 8th in OPS in the AL if he qualified. For a million dollars, that's pretty amazing.

[Dick Allen]

Does Gavin Floyd count?

Matt Thornton definitely counts. If you really want to read some funny stuff Google Mariners message boards after they got rid of Thornton. They were about as giddy as we would be if Albert Pujols was the Sox new DH.

[Balta1701]

Mitchell is a year out. He'll spend all of next year in the minors and than if all goes well be ready. Agressive, certainly, possible, absolutely. Obviously it is very dependent on him being healthy though, which is a major ?.

I really don't believe you'll be right here at all, but we'll see.

[Balta1701]

Matt Thornton definitely counts. If you really want to read some funny stuff Google Mariners message boards after they got rid of Thornton. They were about as giddy as we would be if Albert Pujols was the Sox new DH.

The Phillies were the same way about Floyd.

[Chisoxfn]

Rock solid in 2008? He put up an ERA of 4.42 and a WHIP of 1.51. He was so rock solid that they dropped him from their playoff rotation and stuck him in the bullpen. I think that's basically the definition of a back of the rotation starter, the guy who gets dumped from the rotation.

 

Last year, he had a really good first half...keyed by Comerica park and a .249 BABIP. Every other season in his career he's had a .315ish BABIP against him and that's given him an ERA around 5. In the 2nd half of 2005, he had a BABIP around .315 and wound up with...an ERA around 5.

 

He's an ERA ~5 pitcher. Coop might be able to fix that, but right now, he's an ERA 5ish pitcher.

That wasn't just a typical team. The Rays had a very good rotation that year. They had about 6 quality starters.

[caulfield12]

Buying at the deadline is a perfectly fine strategy, especially when there weren't a ton of great fits at the deadline. You guys all talk about Thome, but he isn't exactly a world beater. He'd clearly be a lot better than Kotsay but he still hasn't been that amazing and no one could have even assumed he'd put up the numbers he has thus far this year.

 

I liked some of the bats this off-season, but quite frankly, outside of Vladdy none of the cheaper DH options have lit the world on fire. I would have loved Matsui, he hasn't exactly been stellar either.

 

The reality is we don't have a huge budget and our team was built to have a studly rotation, good defense, and nice bullpen. That can win a whole lot of games and our offense isn't near as bad as it was for the first two months of the season. It has issues, but a lot of teams have issues.

 

Unless we had a crystal ball with Pods, Vladdy and Aubrey Huff, we'd probably be in an even worse position had we gone with almost any other option out there for DH, because that money for Damon/Matsui (etc.) wouldn't have been available to add Edwin Jackson.