What do we have in Viciedo?

[scenario]

I had heard on WSCR this morning that Jackson won't pitch until Wednesday, so I'm assuming somebody has to be called up to start one of the twin bill games (although we do have tomorrow off of course). Would it be Harrell again?

 

I don't think it's a question of who's coming up Tuesday. That will be Torres.

 

The question is who comes up when Torres goes back down.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

Hopefully Torres throws strikes. im sick of our minor league pitchers coming up and walking the yard, it pisses me off

 

Amen to this. If the guy throws strikes and gets destroyed thats one thing. If he walks the bases loaded and gets the death by 1000 paper cuts routine then its infuriating.

 

[southsider2k5]

Kotsay's well on his way to being one of the most disliked Sox players ever on this board, especially with what is possibly going to happen over the next few days.

 

He's not even close to that bad. Hell he doesn't even have a derogatory nickname yet.

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think it's a question of who's coming up Tuesday. That will be Torres.

 

The question is who comes up when Torres goes back down.

 

Would we dare carry 13 pitchers? We have a stretch from the 3rd through the 15th with no days off, and a doubleheader on the 4th after all.

Edited August 1, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[scenario]

Of course, all of the roster jockeying, etc., will be postponed if Jackson has a good bullpen today and ends up pitching Tuesday.

[fathom]

He's not even close to that bad. Hell he doesn't even have a derogatory nickname yet.

 

That's why I'm saying if certain roster moves are made this week, and he stays on the roster, people will despise him even more.

[ThunderBolt]

He's not even close to that bad. Hell he doesn't even have a derogatory nickname yet.

TMK doesn't have the same ring to it that D-Wheezey does. I think Joe needs to get to work on the nickname thing.

[hammerhead johnson]

This guy's power potential is through the roof, but he has yet to draw even a single walk in 66 plate appearances.

 

Between Viciedo, Ramirez, Pierzynski, Vizquel, and Pierre, we're talking about 75 walks in almost 1500 plate appearances.

 

If you can't work counts and draw walks, then I'm not interested in watching your ABs, with few exceptions.

 

Of course, I'm ecstatic about the Sox being 35-11 in their last 46 games, but still, thank god for DVR capabilities. I fast forward through the ABs of Ramirez, Pierzynski, Vizquel, Pierre, and Kotsay. I check out the Tank because he hits the ball so viciously, but I'm disgusted by his lack of plate discipline. I sit through Andruw Jones ABs because I'm fascinated by his utter stupidity & the fact that he has a perpetual smile on his face. He also has Stevie Wonder type moments when he swings and misses on breaking balls by like two feet. I guess you can say that I'm in it for the comedy. I thought he might actually have a bounce-back season based on early returns when he was crushing everything in sight, but he doesn't have a prayer against right-handed pitching at this point. An .870 OPS against left-handers is pretty cool, though.

 

It's always a real bummer when I watch games with other people, because I have to sit through so many of these horse s*** at bats.

[dyuen]

Would we dare carry 13 pitchers? We have a stretch from the 3rd through the 15th with no days off, and a doubleheader on the 4th after all.

as of last friday this was the plan

[ChiSox_Sonix]

People keep talking about his lack of plate discipline. Is it really the case though or do people just like throwing around the term because nothing is more fun than finding something criticize and/or nitpick at? The guy isn't a strikeout machine and makes contact; often solid contact. I haven't seen him chase too many pitches or look foolish too often yet up there. Just because he likes to swing at often one of the first good pitches he gets, that doesn't necessarily mean he lacks plate discipline. He's the kind of hitter we want swinging, trying to drive in runs. We don't need him up there trying to get on base ala a lead off hitter or waiting up there to give the guys in front of him a chance to swipe a bag. He doesn't walk, but he hasn't exactly looked like a guy who doesn't know where the strike zone is either.

Edited August 2, 2010 by ChiSox_Sonix

[Quin]

To those saying Tank hasn't faced Righties.

 

Split	G	GS	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	ROE	BAbip	tOPS+	sOPS+
vs RHP as RHB	15		33	33	9	1	0	1	3	1	0	0	4	.273	.273	.394	.667	13	4	0	0	0	0	0	.286	65	85
vs LHP as RHB	13		33	33	12	5	0	1	3	0	0	0	4	.364	.364	.606	.970	20	0	0	0	0	0	3	.393	136	155

He's had 33 AB's against both Lefties and Righties, and hitting .273 against right handers, not bad at all, just nothing compared to his insane .364 against lefties.

 

Meanwhile, it Kotsayville

Split	G	GS	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	ROE	BAbip	tOPS+	sOPS+
vs RHP as LHB	72		231	206	49	11	0	6	20	1	2	25	23	.238	.320	.379	.699	78	7	0	0	0	2	0	.243	116	85
vs LHP as LHB	17		22	20	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	2	2	.000	.091	.000	.091	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	.000	-70	-71

 

That's not a typo, .238 against right handers and .000 against lefties.

 

I didn't even think he was doing that bad.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Quinarvy

[Balta1701]

People keep talking about his lack of plate discipline. Is it really the case though or do people just like throwing around the term because nothing is more fun than finding something criticize and/or nitpick at? The guy isn't a strikeout machine and makes contact; often solid contact. I haven't seen him chase too many pitches or look foolish too often yet up there. Just because he likes to swing at often one of the first good pitches he gets, that doesn't necessarily mean he lacks plate discipline. He's the kind of hitter we want swinging, trying to drive in runs. We don't need him up there trying to get on base ala a lead off hitter or waiting up there to give the guys in front of him a chance to swipe a bag. He doesn't walk, but he hasn't exactly looked like a guy who doesn't know where the strike zone is either.

That's why I think he's our next Vlad.

 

Anyway, the real test of his plate discipline is going to come probably next year as film gets out on him and pitchers adapt. The scouting report by next year is going to say "every pitch you throw to him should be progressively further outside the strike zone." They're going to basically start giving him free walks in an effort to get him to swing at pitches that are impossible to hit. If he takes the walks when you give them to him, and doesn't fall behind in the count when pitchers are deliberately not giving him anything close, then he'll have it.

[jenksycat]

This guy's power potential is through the roof, but he has yet to draw even a single walk in 66 plate appearances.

 

Between Viciedo, Ramirez, Pierzynski, Vizquel, and Pierre, we're talking about 75 walks in almost 1500 plate appearances.

 

If you can't work counts and draw walks, then I'm not interested in watching your ABs, with few exceptions.

 

Of course, I'm ecstatic about the Sox being 35-11 in their last 46 games, but still, thank god for DVR capabilities. I fast forward through the ABs of Ramirez, Pierzynski, Vizquel, Pierre, and Kotsay. I check out the Tank because he hits the ball so viciously, but I'm disgusted by his lack of plate discipline. I sit through Andruw Jones ABs because I'm fascinated by his utter stupidity & the fact that he has a perpetual smile on his face. He also has Stevie Wonder type moments when he swings and misses on breaking balls by like two feet. I guess you can say that I'm in it for the comedy. I thought he might actually have a bounce-back season based on early returns when he was crushing everything in sight, but he doesn't have a prayer against right-handed pitching at this point. An .870 OPS against left-handers is pretty cool, though.

 

It's always a real bummer when I watch games with other people, because I have to sit through so many of these horse s*** at bats.

 

Kinda stupid to not watch A-ram, he's been on fire lately. Its a fine line between swinging at everything Uribe style and looking at 20 called 3rd strikes like Swishersweets

[hammerhead johnson]

Kinda stupid to not watch A-ram, he's been on fire lately.

 

Hell yeah, Aramis Ramirez has been on fire lately. He put up a 1.006 OPS in July with 15 extra-base hits.

 

Too bad that he plays for the wrong team!

 

You suck, dude.

 

Seriously though, I don't derive much pleasure out of watching Alexei Ramirez at bats. I'm not gonna apologize for it. It is what it is.

[hammerhead johnson]

People keep talking about his lack of plate discipline. Is it really the case though or do people just like throwing around the term because nothing is more fun than finding something criticize and/or nitpick at?

 

Nothing is more fun than finding something to criticize. You hit the nail on the head, man.

 

But zero walks in 66 ABs has me somewhat concerned.

 

[chw42]

People keep talking about his lack of plate discipline. Is it really the case though or do people just like throwing around the term because nothing is more fun than finding something criticize and/or nitpick at? The guy isn't a strikeout machine and makes contact; often solid contact. I haven't seen him chase too many pitches or look foolish too often yet up there. Just because he likes to swing at often one of the first good pitches he gets, that doesn't necessarily mean he lacks plate discipline. He's the kind of hitter we want swinging, trying to drive in runs. We don't need him up there trying to get on base ala a lead off hitter or waiting up there to give the guys in front of him a chance to swipe a bag. He doesn't walk, but he hasn't exactly looked like a guy who doesn't know where the strike zone is either.

 

The lack of discipline is true. He swings at nearly 40% of pitches outside of the zone, that's pretty bad, but not unexpected.

[Kalapse]

The lack of discipline is true. He swings at nearly 40% of pitches outside of the zone, that's pretty bad, but not unexpected.

432 players with at least 60 PA this season:

 

Swing%

61.4% Francoeur

60.5% Jake Fox

60.0% Vlad

59.6% Delmon

58.4% Ivan

58.2% Chris Johnson

58.0% Dayan

57.7% Mike Sweeney

57.5% John Buck

57.2% Boesch

57.1% Stavinoha

 

He has the 30th highest "out of zone swing%" out of those 432 this season (AJ's 10th)

[iamshack]

The lack of discipline is true. He swings at nearly 40% of pitches outside of the zone, that's pretty bad, but not unexpected.

His weakness seems to be the outside breaking stuff...which is not uncommon, as you said. The good thing is, he does actually get his bat on those balls quite often. But if he could just lay off them a bit more...he does seem to lay off stuff inside fairly well, but that could be because he likes to dive across the plate a bit.

 

[Balta1701]

432 players with at least 60 PA this season:

 

Swing%

61.4% Francoeur

60.5% Jake Fox

60.0% Vlad

59.6% Delmon

58.4% Ivan

58.2% Chris Johnson

58.0% Dayan

57.7% Mike Sweeney

57.5% John Buck

57.2% Boesch

57.1% Stavinoha

 

He has the 30th highest "out of zone swing%" out of those 432 this season (AJ's 10th)

One thing worth noting...there's some decent players on that list.

 

Can we find if there's any correlation between any of those stats and OPS?

[chw42]

432 players with at least 60 PA this season:

 

Swing%

61.4% Francoeur

60.5% Jake Fox

60.0% Vlad

59.6% Delmon

58.4% Ivan

58.2% Chris Johnson

58.0% Dayan

57.7% Mike Sweeney

57.5% John Buck

57.2% Boesch

57.1% Stavinoha

 

He has the 30th highest "out of zone swing%" out of those 432 this season (AJ's 10th)

 

At least my observations that he wasn't as bad as A.J. at pitch recognition were right.

[chw42]

His weakness seems to be the outside breaking stuff...which is not uncommon, as you said. The good thing is, he does actually get his bat on those balls quite often. But if he could just lay off them a bit more...he does seem to lay off stuff inside fairly well, but that could be because he likes to dive across the plate a bit.

 

He seems to have a lot of success on lower pitches in the zone, from what I've seen. He ends up golfing those a lot, which is why he hits a good amount of line drives.

 

The thing with Viciedo is that he makes contact with 69% of the pitches out of the zone, which is above average. That may be a good thing or a bad thing, since pitches out the zone usually mean ground balls or pop ups.

 

There's a growing process with these younger Cuban players. Alexei was pretty much the same when he first got here. Let's hope Dayan learns and progresses to draw more walks like Alexei did last year.

[Quin]

The fact that Kenny didn't trade Dayan is what has pushed me over the edge to get a Dayan shirt.

[justBLAZE]

Kinda stupid to not watch A-ram, he's been on fire lately. Its a fine line between swinging at everything Uribe style and looking at 20 called 3rd strikes like Swishersweets

 

Thank you, was coming here to post this.

[balfanman]

Could the reason that Dayan seems to be swinging at most everything have to do with major league pitching? Pitchers that are in the majors tend to throw more strikes, and even when they miss the plate it usually isn't by much. To Dayan, this may seem like a good buffet restaraunt, he might just be seeing so much that he'd like to hit that he swings at everything. Once pitchers figure out that they can't send up meatballs to him, Dayan just might have the ability to lay off and wait for his pitch.

[G&T]

Could the reason that Dayan seems to be swinging at most everything have to do with major league pitching? Pitchers that are in the majors tend to throw more strikes, and even when they miss the plate it usually isn't by much. To Dayan, this may seem like a good buffet restaraunt, he might just be seeing so much that he'd like to hit that he swings at everything. Once pitchers figure out that they can't send up meatballs to him, Dayan just might have the ability to lay off and wait for his pitch.

 

You don't walk off the island. They are trained to swing. And frankly, people are over valuing walks for a guy that has such a large hitting zone. Why should he take a walk when he can smack ball four for a double?