Daniel Hudson watch thread

[Quin]

No one will be happier about Jackson shutting me up than me. We really need a stopper today to avoid losing 3/4 to the lowly Orioles.

At least Jackson did his part.

[Balta1701]

At least Jackson did his part.

True, but with the way the Orioles were hitting he could have been better as well.

[LittleHurt05]

True, but with the way the Orioles were hitting he could have been better as well.

 

He gave up a solo homer and his defense cost him a second run. I guess he should have shut them out, but I thought he did pretty damn well.

[Balta1701]

He gave up a solo homer and his defense cost him a second run. I guess he should have shut them out, but I thought he did pretty damn well.

My problem was, from watching him...for the first 3 innings he was dominant. For the 2nd 3 innings, he was getting the ball up a whole lot more and was in "pitch out of trouble" mode. Yea, the defense screwed him out of 1 of those runs, but he also grooved a few balls that inning that Pie and Scott hit hard as singles to help with that inning. A better hitting team does more damage than the O's last night.

[BigSqwert]

My problem was, from watching him...for the first 3 innings he was dominant. For the 2nd 3 innings, he was getting the ball up a whole lot more and was in "pitch out of trouble" mode. Yea, the defense screwed him out of 1 of those runs, but he also grooved a few balls that inning that Pie and Scott hit hard as singles to help with that inning. A better hitting team does more damage than the O's last night.

Wow. You're really being a tough critic. The guy gave up 1 earned run and showed good control by walking only one.

 

At least if it were Hudson we would have lost the game by the 3rd inning after he walked 5 and gave up 4 or 5 runs.

Edited August 10, 2010 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

Wow. You're really being a tough critic. The guy gave up 1 earned run and showed good control by walking only one.

 

At least if it were Hudson we would have lost the game by the 3rd inning after he walked 5 and gave up 4 or 5 runs.

And that 1 that he walked was the old unintentional-intentional walk too.

 

Jackson deserved the win last night and the loss was on the offense, but Jackson wasn't a dominant pitcher for the middle 3 innings.

 

I could be a real jerk and say "Yeah but Hudson wouldn't have given up as many hits, look at his last game line!" but that's just as silly as your point.

[BigSqwert]

And that 1 that he walked was the old unintentional-intentional walk too.

 

Jackson deserved the win last night and the loss was on the offense, but Jackson wasn't a dominant pitcher for the middle 3 innings.

 

I could be a real jerk and say "Yeah but Hudson wouldn't have given up as many hits, look at his last game line!" but that's just as silly as your point.

Meh. He was effective enough to not give up a bunch of key hits to break the game open for Baltimore. He's been night and day with us vs Arizona and I think he'll only get better.

[Balta1701]

Meh. He was effective enough to not give up a bunch of key hits to break the game open for Baltimore. He's been night and day with us vs Arizona and I think he'll only get better.

That's certainly entirely possible. I think his mechanics got a bit lost later in the game yesterday and that's why he started elevating pitches.

[TheChrisSamsa]

MLB pitchers are probably the most "heady" athletes in sports. Take a pitcher out of a pennant race and they might perform better, same goes when you put some guys into a pennant race. That's what this Hudson/Jackson trade was about. It was about getting someone with experience for someone who seemed to be crapping the bed in July.

[SoxFan1]

And that 1 that he walked was the old unintentional-intentional walk too.

 

Jackson deserved the win last night and the loss was on the offense, but Jackson wasn't a dominant pitcher for the middle 3 innings.

 

I could be a real jerk and say "Yeah but Hudson wouldn't have given up as many hits, look at his last game line!" but that's just as silly as your point.

My God man, you're disgusting me in this thread. Jackson didn't do enough to shut out the Orioles. f***in a he gave up 1 run. It's blatantly obvious that he'll never be able to live up to your ridiculous expectations of him. Seems like you won't be satisfied unless he throws nothing but perfect games because you love Hudson so much.

[Balta1701]

My God man, you're disgusting me in this thread. Jackson didn't do enough to shut out the Orioles. f***in a he gave up 1 run. It's blatantly obvious that he'll never be able to live up to your ridiculous expectations of him. Seems like you won't be satisfied unless he throws nothing but perfect games because you love Hudson so much.

If we're going to take on a good chunk of salary and give up a back of the rotation starter under our control for 6 years, then I want the guy to pitch like an ace. If we're going to count on this guy down the stretch to be the difference between a long playoff run and missing the playoffs, then regardless of the results, I'm going to look at where he's locating things, how effective his pitches are, what he throws that gets hit, what doesn't get hit, and when those things change.

 

You guys, justifiably, got to be hard on Hudson even if he showed good stuff in his outings because he didn't produce results, while I tended to focus on what he was actually throwing up there. I'm focusing on what Jackson is throwing up there right now.

 

The raw stuff is there, and his fastball control has been better than I expected, but based on his first 2 starts...I'd say he threw about 7 great innings (last 4 innings of game 1, first 3 of game 2) and bookended those with 2 sets of 3 average to below average innings that he had to get through on guile.

[SoxFan1]

If we're going to take on a good chunk of salary and give up a back of the rotation starter under our control for 6 years, then I want the guy to pitch like an ace. If we're going to count on this guy down the stretch to be the difference between a long playoff run and missing the playoffs, then regardless of the results, I'm going to look at where he's locating things, how effective his pitches are, what he throws that gets hit, what doesn't get hit, and when those things change.

 

You guys, justifiably, got to be hard on Hudson even if he showed good stuff in his outings because he didn't produce results, while I tended to focus on what he was actually throwing up there. I'm focusing on what Jackson is throwing up there right now.

 

The raw stuff is there, and his fastball control has been better than I expected, but based on his first 2 starts...I'd say he threw about 7 great innings (last 4 innings of game 1, first 3 of game 2) and bookended those with 2 sets of 3 average to below average innings that he had to get through on guile.

All I'm saying is that you aren't being fair to him.

[Balta1701]

All I'm saying is that you aren't being fair to him.

What comment on his performance have I said that you disagree with?

[SoxFan1]

What comment on his performance have I said that you disagree with?

This is a Tyrus Thomas situation all over again with you. You're over-critiquing Jackson because you love(d) Hudson so much. If you can't admit that, then I don't have anything else to say. I don't see you analyzing and counting how many great and mediocre and bad innings Danks or Buehrle or Floyd or Garcia have pitched.

[Balta1701]

This is a Tyrus Thomas situation all over again with you. You're over-critiquing Jackson because you love(d) Hudson so much. If you can't admit that, then I don't have anything else to say. I don't see you analyzing and counting how many great and mediocre and bad innings Danks or Buehrle or Floyd or Garcia have pitched.

OTOH, I feel like I gave a similar level of analysis to Hudson's outings when I was able to sit down and watch them.

[nitetrain8601]

OTOH, I feel like I gave a similar level of analysis to Hudson's outings when I was able to sit down and watch them.

 

Gotta kind of agree with SoxFan here. Seems like you're way overanalyzing Edwin. I hate to see what happens when he gives up 5 earned in a game.

[greg775]

This is a Tyrus Thomas situation all over again with you. You're over-critiquing Jackson because you love(d) Hudson so much. If you can't admit that, then I don't have anything else to say. I don't see you analyzing and counting how many great and mediocre and bad innings Danks or Buehrle or Floyd or Garcia have pitched.

 

Cool to see a mod and admin fighting just like us normal peons.

Let me solve this argument: The trade was ridiculous. We should have never traded Hudson for Jackson. We should have traded Hudson as part of a deal for a BAT if we did trade him at all. Or we should have traded some unknown prospects for Jackson, who was a salary dump. KW overpaid big time!

However, Jackson has been very good to excellent in his two starts with us. And I think we all agree we hope he keeps it up.

Edited August 11, 2010 by greg775

[Kyyle23]

Cool to see a mod and admin fighting just like us normal peons.

Let me solve this argument: The trade was ridiculous. We should have never traded Hudson for Jackson. We should have traded Hudson as part of a deal for a BAT if we did trade him at all. Or we should have traded some unknown prospects for Jackson, who was a salary dump. KW overpaid big time!

However, Jackson has been very good to excellent in his two starts with us. And I think we all agree we hope he keeps it up.

 

why is this cool, greg? Keep to the subject at hand and stop focusing on who is fighting with each other

[Balta1701]

Gotta kind of agree with SoxFan here. Seems like you're way overanalyzing Edwin. I hate to see what happens when he gives up 5 earned in a game.

Depends on how he gives them up. IMO, if you combine innings 1-3 against the Tigers and innings 4-6 against the Orioles, that's a 5 earned run game, all it would take is 1 hit to capitalize and blow it open. If you combine innings 4-7 against the Tigers and 1-3 against the Orioles, that's 7 shutout, 1-2 hit innings, and he's probably good to go for 8+ on that night. I want to see more of that middle-innings guy.

[BigSqwert]

Depends on how he gives them up. IMO, if you combine innings 1-3 against the Tigers and innings 4-6 against the Orioles, that's a 5 earned run game, all it would take is 1 hit to capitalize and blow it open. If you combine innings 4-7 against the Tigers and 1-3 against the Orioles, that's 7 shutout, 1-2 hit innings, and he's probably good to go for 8+ on that night. I want to see more of that middle-innings guy.

Am I reading this right? You're saying he would have given up a lot of runs if the opponent were to get that 1 key hit? Well he didn't give up that key hit and has 2 consecutive quality starts while only walking 1 per game.

 

What if Hudson didn't give up a million walks and hits against KC last month? He would have had a great start!

[Balta1701]

What if Hudson didn't give up a million walks and hits against KC last month? He would have had a great start!

So, are you or are you not going to hold Jackson to a higher standard than Hudson?

[BigSqwert]

So, are you or are you not going to hold Jackson to a higher standard than Hudson?

I would say yes and he is delivering so far. It's the walks that make me want to throw the TV out the window and he's not giving up many.

[Balta1701]

I would say yes and he is delivering so far. It's the walks that make me want to throw the TV out the window and he's not giving up many.

And I'd say he's walked something of a tightrope for 1/2 of both of his starts.

[BigSqwert]

And I'd say he's walked something of a tightrope for 1/2 of both of his starts.

No doubt but he has the ability to get out of a jam with a key strikeout.

 

And this year he's 2-0 with a 2.45 ERA, 10Ks and 3BBs against his next opponent, the Tigers.

[Balta1701]

No doubt but he has the ability to get out of a jam with a key strikeout.

 

And this year he's 2-0 with a 2.45 ERA, 10Ks and 3BBs against his next opponent, the Tigers.

So you're saying he only pitches well at Comerica? That's a pitchers paradise, you can't count those

 

(Sorry, I remember the days when that was the knock on G! so I had to pull that one out again).

 

Anyway, all I'm saying is...if I'm giving up 6 years of a back of the rotation guy for 1.5 more expensive years of another guy...I think I'm fully justified in expecting that guy to legitimately be a dominant pitcher, and I'm going to call out if I don't get that.