Daniel Hudson watch thread

[hitlesswonder]

Yep, KW has been TERRIBLE at his job ever since the 2008 season ended. I don't really know how anyone could do worse. The returns on the Swisher and Vazquez trade really couldn't have been more mediocre, and has killed the depth in this franchise.

 

KW cost the Sox the division this year. The litany of bad moves is ridiculous:

 

Swisher trade to NYY

Vazquez trade

Teahen acquisition and extension

Kotsay over Thome

Hudson for Jackson

 

I know some of those moves were pre-2010, but they still affect this year's club. Those are all truly awful trades (or FA choices). Even the Pierre trade was bad, IMO. Pierre managed an OK OBP this season, but the Sox are still locking up $8M in a left fielder with a sub-.700 OPS.

 

Next year looks awful. They have too much money locked up in junk like Teahen, Pierre, Linebrink to go with an overpaid Edwin Jackson and Jake Peavy...there's no money or minor league talent to fill the holes on the team.

Edited September 15, 2010 by hitlesswonder

[southsideirish71]

I watched the Club after the game tonight. They had Kenny and his band of wise men weighing in on a possible trade for Hudson and more for Jackson. Listening to some of input he was getting. Its time to clean house on a large scale. Put Hahn in charge, and then wipe it out.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

I watched the Club after the game tonight. They had Kenny and his band of wise men weighing in on a possible trade for Hudson and more for Jackson. Listening to some of input he was getting. Its time to clean house on a large scale. Put Hahn in charge, and then wipe it out.

 

You based your judgment on a TV show?

Those move makes sense in short term when you need experience in a pennant race.

The long term implications may not be so good. I think Jackson is a Boras client and JR doesn't like that.

Once again we see the Sox cry poor but their actions always contradict that.

 

It's hard to tell how this will pan out.

I think people get too carried away that Hudson is doing well in a weak league and a team with no pressure.

 

 

 

[kitekrazy]

KW cost the Sox the division this year. The litany of bad moves is ridiculous:

 

Swisher trade to NYY

Vazquez trade

Teahen acquisition and extension

Kotsay over Thome

Hudson for Jackson

 

I know some of those moves were pre-2010, but they still affect this year's club. Those are all truly awful trades (or FA choices). Even the Pierre trade was bad, IMO. Pierre managed an OK OBP this season, but the Sox are still locking up $8M in a left fielder with a sub-.700 OPS.

 

Next year looks awful. They have too much money locked up in junk like Teahen, Pierre, Linebrink to go with an overpaid Edwin Jackson and Jake Peavy...there's no money or minor league talent to fill the holes on the team.

 

I wouldn't be ready to predict the sky will fall in 2011. I think the organization's biggest mistake was thinking the Twins would not be that good this year. It looks like the Sox were assembled to win a division more than a World Series. I can't see anyone thinking before the season started this team could beat the Yankees outside of "anything could happen".

Kenny has done a great job of getting some to believe this is all on Ozzie. I doubt for one minute Ozzie was comfortable with having Kotsay play more. The money they were willing to pay for Damon hints at this.

Edited September 16, 2010 by kitekrazy

[Balta1701]

I wouldn't be ready to predict the sky will fall in 2011. I think the organization's biggest mistake was thinking the Twins would not be that good this year. It looks like the Sox were assembled to win a division more than a World Series. I can't see anyone thinking before the season started this team could beat the Yankees outside of "anything could happen".

Kenny has done a great job of getting some to believe this is all on Ozzie. I doubt for one minute Ozzie was comfortable with having Kotsay play more. The money they were willing to pay for Damon hints at this.

Really? I think this team was built to win a World Series more than a division.

[NorthSideSox72]

KW cost the Sox the division this year. The litany of bad moves is ridiculous:

 

Swisher trade to NYY

Vazquez trade

Teahen acquisition and extension

Kotsay over Thome

Hudson for Jackson

 

I know some of those moves were pre-2010, but they still affect this year's club. Those are all truly awful trades (or FA choices). Even the Pierre trade was bad, IMO. Pierre managed an OK OBP this season, but the Sox are still locking up $8M in a left fielder with a sub-.700 OPS.

 

Next year looks awful. They have too much money locked up in junk like Teahen, Pierre, Linebrink to go with an overpaid Edwin Jackson and Jake Peavy...there's no money or minor league talent to fill the holes on the team.

That's an odd list to discuss as failures.

 

Swisher was terrible here and was clearly not going to work in the clubhouse - the bad trade wasn't sending him away, it was acquiring him at all. And even that seemed like a reasonable move at the time, though quesitonable on the defensive end - hard to have predicted he'd turn into such a cancer in the clubhouse.

 

Vazquez trade? Hard to evaluate for certain yet, we need to see how the resulting players do in the majors. Lillibridge is a utility guy at best, but if Flowers is a starting catcher, that alone is a big win.

 

Teahen acquisition was fine, but I agree with you on the extension, that was just a bad move. And Teahen hasn't played enough to have been a significant force good or bad.

 

Kotsay over Thome was Ozzie's call.

 

Hudson for Jackson, at this point, I will agree, it was a bad move. Not an awful one, and certainly had no negative effect on the team's performance in 2010, given how well Jackson has done.

 

So really, tell me how any of those moves other than Kotsay, which was Ozzie's move, blew the 2010 season. Because I don't see it.

 

Also, maybe I'm nuts, but I like the look of 2011 at this point.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

You based your judgment on a TV show?

Those move makes sense in short term when you need experience in a pennant race.

The long term implications may not be so good. I think Jackson is a Boras client and JR doesn't like that.

Once again we see the Sox cry poor but their actions always contradict that.

 

It's hard to tell how this will pan out.

I think people get too carried away that Hudson is doing well in a weak league and a team with no pressure.

 

A+ for originality.

[T R U]

A+ for originality.

 

well it is for the most part correct.. no one has seen him in that league and hes playing for a crap team with nothing to lose right now..

 

He wasn't pitching like that for us before we dealt him this year..

[Jordan4life_2007]

well it is for the most part correct.. no one has seen him in that league and hes playing for a crap team with nothing to lose right now..

 

He wasn't pitching like that for us before we dealt him this year..

 

Yes, because 3 starts is a legitimate body of work to judge a guy by. And for the 4375274734274844 time, Jackson was pitching under the same conditions and flat sucked. And it looks as if he's reverting back to his hit or miss self with us. Just a putrid trade by a GM that's been absolutely brutal the last 2+ years.

[Jerksticks]

Yes, because 3 starts is a legitimate body of work to judge a guy by. And for the 4375274734274844 time, Jackson was pitching under the same conditions and flat sucked. And it looks as if he's reverting back to his hit or miss self with us. Just a putrid trade by a GM that's been absolutely brutal the last 2+ years.

 

Brutal? Disagree. I think we have one of the best teams we've ever had. Next year should be great!

[justBLAZE]

Yes, because 3 starts is a legitimate body of work to judge a guy by. And for the 4375274734274844 time, Jackson was pitching under the same conditions and flat sucked. And it looks as if he's reverting back to his hit or miss self with us. Just a putrid trade by a GM that's been absolutely brutal the last 2+ years.

 

Earlier you said that pitching 'while in pennant race' is as garbage as 'he is doing it in the NL', how about Javy Vazquez, isn't he a perfect example of both?

 

Some can't handle the pressure, while I'm not saying it is the case with Hudson it very well could be, we'll never know.

 

 

[bigruss]

Earlier you said that pitching 'while in pennant race' is as garbage as 'he is doing it in the NL', how about Javy Vazquez, isn't he a perfect example of both?

 

Some can't handle the pressure, while I'm not saying it is the case with Hudson it very well could be, we'll never know.

Or maybe some players need a few starts to get used to MLB hitters.

 

Really, Hudson didnt get hit all that hard, the defense behind him was pretty bad and between that and his walks and a few dinky hits he gave up too many runs. But he was throwing pitches that werent getting hit hard, and he was missing quite a few bats too. To me, that shows great potential, and at the time it was very reasonable to see that he was a rookie who didnt have the usual control that he has had in the past.

[Rowand44]

Yes, because 3 starts is a legitimate body of work to judge a guy by. And for the 4375274734274844 time, Jackson was pitching under the same conditions and flat sucked. And it looks as if he's reverting back to his hit or miss self with us. Just a putrid trade by a GM that's been absolutely brutal the last 2+ years.

While the rest of your post is valid, it's way too early to jump to this conclusion. I agree with everything else though, the trade was a bad one from the beginning.

[Jerksticks]

I don't think Dan Hudson will ever mow people down like EJax. Jerry Reinsdorf even said the trade was "a no-brainer" on The Club. So don't blame KW if you are unhappy with the trade, blame the collective body of highly paid men in our front office. I like it so far, next year could be special.

[T R U]

Yes, because 3 starts is a legitimate body of work to judge a guy by. And for the 4375274734274844 time, Jackson was pitching under the same conditions and flat sucked. And it looks as if he's reverting back to his hit or miss self with us. Just a putrid trade by a GM that's been absolutely brutal the last 2+ years.

 

Yes, 3 starts is plenty to judge a guy by when you are in a playoff race and cant afford to wait it out.. Jackson came here and pitched well because Cooper saw something he could correct with him and that's what has worked out..

[bigruss]

I don't think Dan Hudson will ever mow people down like EJax. Jerry Reinsdorf even said the trade was "a no-brainer" on The Club. So don't blame KW if you are unhappy with the trade, blame the collective body of highly paid men in our front office. I like it so far, next year could be special.

Hudson probably wont ever strike out hitters like Jackson does, but that doesnt mean he isn't or can't be as good of a pitcher.

 

And I would never trust Reinsdorf with player personnel decisions, that's not his job. And if the staff really did think it was a no brainer than I firmly believe that it should be a no brainer to clean house.

[bigruss]

Yes, 3 starts is plenty to judge a guy by when you are in a playoff race and cant afford to wait it out.. Jackson came here and pitched well because Cooper saw something he could correct with him and that's what has worked out..

Hudson only gave up one HR in 15ish innings, and his biggest downfall was his walks, which he never really had a big problem with in the minors. He had walked 11 batters in 15 innings with the Sox, that wasnt going to continue, as evidenced by the 12 walks in 65 innings with the Dbacks. ON both teams this year, Hudson has struck out 8 per 9 innings, so it's not like guys were clobbering him.

[southsider2k5]

Hudson probably wont ever strike out hitters like Jackson does, but that doesnt mean he isn't or can't be as good of a pitcher.

 

And I would never trust Reinsdorf with player personnel decisions, that's not his job. And if the staff really did think it was a no brainer than I firmly believe that it should be a no brainer to clean house.

 

Yeah doing things like bringing back Frank Thomas and Paul Konerko didn't make any sense at all...

[bigruss]

Yeah doing things like bringing back Frank Thomas and Paul Konerko didn't make any sense at all...

Major difference between giving the okay to spend more money and deciding if a player is worth a trade or not.

[Jerksticks]

Major difference between giving the okay to spend more money and deciding if a player is worth a trade or not.

 

I think Jerry just fits into the school of thought that prospects are only that, prospects. He knows the insane majority completely wash out quickly. EJax has proven he is a good player already and will always fetch talent. Hudson could have imploded here and fetched little talent in the offseason and we'd be stuck with him. Obviously Hudson has excelled but from a risk standpoint, acquiring EJax kinda was a no-brainer.

[bigruss]

I think Jerry just fits into the school of thought that prospects are only that, prospects. He knows the insane majority completely wash out quickly. EJax has proven he is a good player already and will always fetch talent. Hudson could have imploded here and fetched little talent in the offseason and we'd be stuck with him. Obviously Hudson has excelled but from a risk standpoint, acquiring EJax kinda was a no-brainer.

EJax did not show that he was a consistently good performer, he really only had one full season of being good. He was just as much of a risk as Hudson with a bigger paycheck and less years under team control.

[newportitis]

Kenny seems to follow a simple formula when he builds his starting staff. He wants 4 number 2 / borderline number one starters and can live with one bargin bin veteran for the fifth starter . When the Sox decide that someone either no longer has the makings of a #2 or will never be a #2, out they go. It doesn't seem to take them very long to size someone up an the major league level. A potential #3 or 4 starter is just a guy, get what you can for him...Gone. Look at John Garland, Brandon McCarthy, Javy Vasquez, Clayton Richard, and now Daniel Hudson. I don't think he cares at all if Richard or Hudson or Ely or Aaron Poreda become serviceable mid-rotation starters, he doesn't need them.

And in theory, it makes sense. If you match up against halfway decent teams that have a starting rotation of 12345 with a rotation of 22225, you have a disadvantage in the first slot, a break even in the second slot, advantages in the 3rd and 4th slots and another break-even in the fifth. Over 10 games that figures out to be 6 wins ( slot 1 LL slot 2 WL slot 3 WW slot 4 WW slot 5 WL) .600 equals playoffs. The match-ups will be tougher against the best teams, better against the bottom feeders. At least in theory. And when you get into the playoffs, you figure one of your #2s will be hot enough to rank as a temporary #1...as Jose did in 2005. Danks looked like that guy for quite a while, Gavin looks like that guy at times - so does Jackson. If we'd gotten in, you'd figure at least one of them would be red hot...and Kenny's all number 2 staff would have a good chance in any playoff series.

I know it's not that simple and clear cut, but this seems to be the way Kenny think and I'll bet he has done this calculation.

 

[Jerksticks]

EJax did not show that he was a consistently good performer, he really only had one full season of being good. He was just as much of a risk as Hudson with a bigger paycheck and less years under team control.

 

Disagree, he can hit 98 with his fastball while Hudson can't. Jax had proven he can be dominant at times whereas Hudson hadn't proven s***. I understand the years and paycheck thing, but there was a possibility that Hudson would never stick in the big leagues. I think the move makes sense from that point of view. I love everything Logic said.

[bigruss]

Disagree, he can hit 98 with his fastball while Hudson can't. Jax had proven he can be dominant at times whereas Hudson hadn't proven s***. I understand the years and paycheck thing, but there was a possibility that Hudson would never stick in the big leagues. I think the move makes sense from that point of view. I love everything Logic said.

EJax also showed he can lit up as well as anyone else, in the "weak" NL nonetheless.

[bigruss]

Kenny seems to follow a simple formula when he builds his starting staff. He wants 4 number 2 / borderline number one starters and can live with one bargin bin veteran for the fifth starter . When the Sox decide that someone either no longer has the makings of a #2 or will never be a #2, out they go. It doesn't seem to take them very long to size someone up an the major league level. A potential #3 or 4 starter is just a guy, get what you can for him...Gone. Look at John Garland, Brandon McCarthy, Javy Vasquez, Clayton Richard, and now Daniel Hudson. I don't think he cares at all if Richard or Hudson or Ely or Aaron Poreda become serviceable mid-rotation starters, he doesn't need them.

And in theory, it makes sense. If you match up against halfway decent teams that have a starting rotation of 12345 with a rotation of 22225, you have a disadvantage in the first slot, a break even in the second slot, advantages in the 3rd and 4th slots and another break-even in the fifth. Over 10 games that figures out to be 6 wins ( slot 1 LL slot 2 WL slot 3 WW slot 4 WW slot 5 WL) .600 equals playoffs. The match-ups will be tougher against the best teams, better against the bottom feeders. At least in theory. And when you get into the playoffs, you figure one of your #2s will be hot enough to rank as a temporary #1...as Jose did in 2005. Danks looked like that guy for quite a while, Gavin looks like that guy at times - so does Jackson. If we'd gotten in, you'd figure at least one of them would be red hot...and Kenny's all number 2 staff would have a good chance in any playoff series.

I know it's not that simple and clear cut, but this seems to be the way Kenny think and I'll bet he has done this calculation.