Daniel Hudson watch thread

[Balta1701]

Interesting.

Can I add the caveat that if he "wins" 2 games but they're both like 14-9 wins with Jackson finishing with an ERA around 7, I still get to complain?

 

Anyway...to be more specific...right now, I'm focusing on what Jackson is throwing up there, how his stuff holds up, how he's actually pitching...because I think that if he faces a team with legitimate playoff quality hitters on it, instead of squeaking by when he gets into trouble, he's going to really suffer. But against a legit playoff quality team...if you go out and squeak by...I really can't complain, because if you can keep the Twins, Rangers, or Yankees from scoring a lot and you can go 7+ innings against them, even if you're pitching from the stretch every inning and you have guys on 3rd most of the game, you've done your job very well.

[LittleHurt05]

I'm just concerned because of Ozzie's relationship with Freddy and possibly a level of overconfidence in his friend.

 

Ugh. I would hope that Freddy's 4 starts of 3 IP+ or less would limit Ozzie's overconfidence in him.

[iamshack]

Can I add the caveat that if he "wins" 2 games but they're both like 14-9 wins with Jackson finishing with an ERA around 7, I still get to complain?

You're going to complain regardless. You've got every right to.

 

I worry about future financial implications as well, but I don't understand how one can make a judgment either way until we see what Jackson does in our uniform. What if he is crucial in the chase for the division title? What if he wins huge starts where we are facing elimination games in a postseason series?

 

I just don't think you can really comment on the value of Jackson to us in this particular case because of what that value would potentially be.

[Balta1701]

What if he is crucial in the chase for the division title? What if he wins huge starts where we are facing elimination games in a postseason series?

That's what I mean when I keep saying "Prove me wrong, Edwin".

[iamshack]

That's what I mean when I keep saying "Prove me wrong, Edwin".

Well, give him a chance. He's given us two very good starts thus far. Not sure what else you can ask of the guy.

 

You may hate the trade, but hold Kenny responsible for your displeasure, not Edwin. He didn't trade himself to us for Hudson and Holmberg.

[southsider2k5]

I'm just concerned because of Ozzie's relationship with Freddy and possibly a level of overconfidence in his friend.

 

Judging by what was said in the reality show, it sounds like they have zero confidence in Freddy. They really felt that the Jackson move was as much for Hudson being a question, as it was for Freddy being one.

[iamshack]

Judging by what was said in the reality show, it sounds like they have zero confidence in Freddy. They really felt that the Jackson move was as much for Hudson being a question, as it was for Freddy being one.

Really? That's very interesting. I have not seen the latest episode yet. I'll have to try and catch it today (one of the 365495037490 times they'll air it).

[qwerty]

What about postseason wins?

 

I'm not certain what a postseason rotation would be for us, but I would hope Kenny and Ozzie would have the stones to make Edwin a #4 and put Freddy in the bullpen. Not sure if this will happen, my guess is it will be sort of a controversy should we get to that point, but as they say, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

But for arguments sake, would 2 postseason victories by Jackson make the trade more tolerable? Three?

 

I don't know that anyone is ever going to convince Balta or Qwerty or some of the other number crunchers we have here that this trade worked out for the White Sox in the end, but if that is the case, where have those posters been on Freddy? As far as I'm concerned Balta should be proclaiming to everyone who will listen that Freddy is Kenny's shining moment this year...and yet all I see is how devastatingly awful trading Hudson away was.

 

But should we win a playoff series and Edwin pitches well in the postseason, was the trade worth it then? What about two playoff series? What about a World Series victory? How are postseason victories by a pitcher, or World Series titles earned with the help of a guy like Jackson, factored into this discussion?

 

In my case i have been strictly talking about the potential long term scenario of the trade. I'm not gonna critique jackson nearly as hard as balta every start, because that would be downright stressful.

 

As far as garcia goes... i didn't think he was gonna last for more than 80 innings until he was replaced. I have also given garcia his due, as i think he has been one of (if not) the most important factor(s) to the team. A constant swinging door at the back of the rotation is generally what keeps teams out of the postseason. We have been very fortunate.

[justBLAZE]

Fixed.

 

Garcia married Guillen's niece, not any of his daughters

[kitekrazy]

Judging by what was said in the reality show, it sounds like they have zero confidence in Freddy. They really felt that the Jackson move was as much for Hudson being a question, as it was for Freddy being one.

 

The term "reality show" is an oxymoron.

 

[fathom]

Ugh, the Hudson trade makes me sick. 6 strike outs in 2.1 innings already tonight. Jackson's been stellar, but I'm still not convinced he's a big upgrade with regards to next year's rotation.

[sircaffey]

Ugh, the Hudson trade makes me sick. 6 strike outs in 2.1 innings already tonight. Jackson's been stellar, but I'm still not convinced he's a big upgrade with regards to next year's rotation.

8 K throw 3 IP.

[Jordan4life_2007]

8 K throw 3 IP.

 

Finished with 10 Ks in 7 IP. Tough luck loser. And for all the "he's doing it in the NL" talk. The Brewers and Reds have two of the most potent offenses in baseball. Not just the NL. Just a pathetic trade. You knew eventually KW trading prospects at this ridiculous rate would come back to ram him in the ass. Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Hudson would look awfully good right now. Not to mention Chris Young. And there's no hindsight here. I hated all three trades.

[SoxAce]

Final line. 7 IP 9 H 3 R 3 ER 0 BB 10 SO

 

ERA now 3.57 overall. (1.19 WHIP)

Edited August 18, 2010 by J.Reedfan8

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Finished with 10 Ks in 7 IP. Tough luck loser. And for all the "he's doing it in the NL" talk. The Brewers and Reds have two of the most potent offenses in baseball. Not just the NL. Just a pathetic trade. You knew eventually KW trading prospects at this ridiculous rate would come back to ram him in the ass. Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Hudson would look awfully good right now. Not to mention Chris Young. And there's no hindsight here. I hated all three trades.

 

Until Jackson starts sucking, you honestly have nothing to complain about. Has Hudson been good? Yes. Has Jackson been just as good, if not better? Yes. Jackson is doing it against DH's, while Hudson is doing it against pitchers.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Until Jackson starts sucking, you honestly have nothing to complain about. Has Hudson been good? Yes. Has Jackson been just as good, if not better? Yes. Jackson is doing it against DH's, while Hudson is doing it against pitchers.

 

I have about 8 million reasons to complain. You guys can keep ignoring the salary issue if you want. But it's a huge factor. DHs and pitchers? A s***ty Detroit offense that's been torpedoed by injuries and the Orioles? Not very impressive. I'm not saying Hudson is Strasburg. But I'm sure as hell not convinced Edwin is 'cured' after three starts against two mediocre offenses.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I have about 8 million reasons to complain. You guys can keep ignoring the salary issue if you want. But it's a huge factor. DHs and pitchers? A s***ty Detroit offense that's been torpedoed by injuries and the Orioles? Not very impressive. I'm not saying Hudson is Strasburg. But I'm sure as hell not convinced Edwin is 'cured' after three starts against two mediocre offenses.

 

So 3 starts don't convince you that Edwin is "cured", but 3 starts convince you that Hudson is so great?

[Jordan4life_2007]

So 3 starts don't convince you that Edwin is "cured", but 3 starts convince you that Hudson is so great?

 

Didn't say that he was great. But I feel he can be just as good (and I thought this as soon as the trade was announced) as Edwin at 8 million bucks less. Now we're going into next year with a rotation at 50+ million and no 1B, C and DH.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Didn't say that he was great. But I feel he can be just as good (and I thought this as soon as the trade was announced) as Edwin at 8 million bucks less. Now we're going into next year with a rotation at 50+ million and no 1B, C and DH.

 

Did the 2011 season start without me knowing? As far as I know, Jackson can still be traded before the season starts. How do you know we did acquire Jackson for the home stretch, and then plan to trade him this winter? Seems very possible. Who is to say that a team wouldn't be willing to part with a big slugger, and wanted Jackson in a trade?

 

Piss and moan all you want that he is dominating for us, but don't bring up that $8M salary until we actually start paying it.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Did the 2011 season start without me knowing? As far as I know, Jackson can still be traded before the season starts. How do you know we did acquire Jackson for the home stretch, and then plan to trade him this winter? Seems very possible. Who is to say that a team wouldn't be willing to part with a big slugger, and wanted Jackson in a trade?

 

Piss and moan all you want that he is dominating for us, but don't bring up that $8M salary until we actually start paying it.

 

So trade your top pitching 'spect for an at best 4th starter for two months only to trade him the following offseason with 1 year and 8 million bucks left on his contract? That makes little to no sense. And I know it's not 2011. But unless we're going to see a spike in payroll, how the hell are we going to be able to re-sign PK, who's assured himself a hefty payday with his spectacular play this season, find a legitimate catcher (not sure what's going to happen with A.J.), and upgrade the biggest deficiency of all, DH, on this team? This is what guys like myself, fathom and bigruss complain about most when it comes to this organization's philosophy. It worked one year in which we got career years from over half the pitching staff. But overall? It's proven to be a failure. We need to start incorporating, and not just trading away, young talent onto the major league team because we're obviously not the Yankees. We can no longer play the "well, none of these guys have come back to haunt us yet" card. Gio Gonzalez has had a fine season for the A's. Chris Young was an all-star. I won't mention Clayton Richard. Because he helped net us Peavy. I'd do that trade over and over again. But now it looks like Hudson will be a guy we regret trading away. If only because he'd be dirt cheap until his arbitration years came up.

[Balta1701]

So 3 starts don't convince you that Edwin is "cured", but 3 starts convince you that Hudson is so great?

Technically Hudson's had 4 starts .

[BigSqwert]

DHs and pitchers? A s***ty Detroit offense that's been torpedoed by injuries and the Orioles? Not very impressive. I'm not saying Hudson is Strasburg. But I'm sure as hell not convinced Edwin is 'cured' after three starts against two mediocre offenses.

But Hudson struggled mightily against KC and Oakland.

 

And I do agree the salary thing is a huge factor in all of this. I'm just hopeful Jackson becomes a valuable piece of the rotation for the next season +1 month.

[Balta1701]

But Hudson struggled mightily against KC and Oakland.

 

And I do agree the salary thing is a huge factor in all of this. I'm just hopeful Jackson becomes a valuable piece of the rotation for the next season +1 month.

And Jackson was destroyed by the same NL that Hudson is beating.

 

We can go around and around on this one, you all know That I'm going to be the skeptic on Jackson until he proves me wrong for a full year and a half...but I think my standard is the one I came to earlier in this thread talking to Shack. If Jackson wins 2 playoff games for the Sox, this trade is a win. If he doesn't, it's a loss.

[NorthSideSox72]

I still don't like the trade, but Jackson is making be hesitate with his solid pitching. We'll have a better idea in the next couple years, but right now, this trade still looks like a loser to me. Not often you can say that about KW's moves.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

So trade your top pitching 'spect for an at best 4th starter for two months only to trade him the following offseason with 1 year and 8 million bucks left on his contract? That makes little to no sense.

 

If we trade Jackson for a big bat this offseason, then it's essentially the same as trading Hudson for that big bat. I don't see why trading FOR Jackson was dumb, and then trading AWAY Jackson is dumb. Unless of course you are trying to say that trading away Hudson for ANY bat would be a bad idea, in which case I disagree with that too.

 

And I know it's not 2011. But unless we're going to see a spike in payroll, how the hell are we going to be able to re-sign PK, who's assured himself a hefty payday with his spectacular play this season, find a legitimate catcher (not sure what's going to happen with A.J.), and upgrade the biggest deficiency of all, DH, on this team?

 

Ok, and how does having Hudson solve any of that? It's not like we traded away a 1B, C, or DH in the trade. It was pitcher for pitcher, so the rest of the holes we have are still the same. To me, that sounds irrelevant, if, as I said before, we trade Jackson in the offseason because then we have added no additional salary.

 

I won't mention Clayton Richard. Because he helped net us Peavy. I'd do that trade over and over again.

 

So let me get this straight.....you are cool with trading 2 top prospects and 2 other prospects for an injured pitcher who makes $16M+, and one of those top prospects has proven himself as a good starter, but you are NOT cool with trading 1 top prospect for a healthy pitcher who makes half the salary as Peavy, and the prospect we traded is unproven.....

 

I understand Peavy has a track record, and is signed for a longer deal, but come on. If you hate trading away young pitchers at the risk of our future AND our payroll, then how can you possibly defend the Jake Peavy trade, which did just that.

Edited August 18, 2010 by JoeCoolMan24