How can an actual MLB manager continue to justify playing time for Mar

[bigruss]

Eventually Hawk, Stone, and any other Sox announcer and Ozzie need to stop making excuses for Kotsay and how "hard" he as hit the ball and start saying they need production from him.

 

I dont care if you hit a ball hard every atbat, if you dont produce through this much of the season it means you arent just going through a rough patch.

[southsider2k5]

What's frustrating to me is all the people pointing out "he's having bad luck, as he's hitting it deep but it's getting caught". Doesn't that just mean that he doesn't have the ability anymore to hit the ball over the fence, and since he's not exactly speedy, he's even more of a liability? Heck, if he doesn't have the power, then learn how to slap the ball all over the field instead of rolling over the ball in 60% of your ABs.

 

That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back.

[Kyyle23]

That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back.

 

eh, two different players at two completely different points in their career. Swisher wasnt coming off of multiple injury years which robbed him of the athleticism that made him special. Nick had a bad year and pouted about it. HGH and PEDs aside, I dont think Kotsay is going to leave the Sox and suddenly find a fountain of youth that will make him a valuable contributing member of a playoff caliber team, much less the starting(allstar) right fielder like Swisher.

[EvilJester99]

Kotsay needs to be a bench player only... he is getting far too much playing time. If they love him as much as Ranger proclaims in the post game.. then leave him on the team but strictly have him come off the bench....the guy gives you nothing on the field.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back.

 

Believe me, I don't want Nick Swisher back. I do, however, want Gio Gonzalez back.

[chw42]

There has to be a whipping boy on the club. I wonder who is next in line, when or if Kotsay leaves.

 

It's not that there has to be a whipping boy. If there were no crappy players on this team, nobody would be complaining. We'd all be happy happy joy joy and I think almost everybody would want that.

 

I don't know how you can't complain about Mark Kotsay. He sucks at hitting and he's is DHing the most games on this team.

 

Chris Rongey brought this point up on the post game show, how there always seems to be one guy the Sox fans hate...well...let's run down this list.

 

2010 Mark Kotsay

2009 Dewayne Wise

2008 Javier Vazquez

2007 Darin Erstad

2006 Rob Mackowiak

 

3, if not 4, of the past 5 most hated people on this team are terrible baseball players. Kotsay is a even worse version of Darin Erstad. Ozzie keeps running this guy out there even though he hasn't proven he could hit in the past 4 months.

 

Don't blame the fans for pointing weaknesses out, blame the players for not performing and blame Ozzie for trotting him out there.

[JPN366]

I don't see how Viciedo doesn't start in either of the DH games.

[iamshack]

It's not that there has to be a whipping boy. If there were no crappy players on this team, nobody would be complaining. We'd all be happy happy joy joy and I think almost everybody would want that.

 

I don't know how you can't complain about Mark Kotsay. He sucks at hitting and he's is DHing the most games on this team.

 

Chris Rongey brought this point up on the post game show, how there always seems to be one guy the Sox fans hate...well...let's run down this list.

 

2010 Mark Kotsay

2009 Dewayne Wise

2008 Javier Vazquez

2007 Darin Erstad

2006 Rob Mackowiak

 

3, if not 4, of the past 5 most hated people on this team are terrible baseball players. Kotsay is a even worse version of Darin Erstad. Ozzie keeps running this guy out there even though he hasn't proven he could hit in the past 4 months.

 

Don't blame the fans for pointing weaknesses out, blame the players for not performing and blame Ozzie for trotting him out there.

 

If you have no other options, it's one thing. It's the fact that Ozzie seems to do this when there are better options. That's what drives a lot of people crazy.

 

[chw42]

That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back.

 

I know who I won't want back next season...Mark Kotsay.

[caulfield12]

I think the only argument left now is 1) he HAS to get hot again, he can't be cold forever, 2) the White Sox are in first place with him playing a significant role, so he can't actually he hurting the team that much and 3) superstition, if Guillen changes something in the line-up radically, the Sox will start to lose because Kotsay's not there.

 

I'm not saying ANY of these are logical, but they're the reality we're left with...

[chw42]

If you have no other options, it's one thing. It's the fact that Ozzie seems to do this when there are better options. That's what drives a lot of people crazy.

 

The Ranger seems to think that Teahen and Viciedo are not good enough to take Kotsay off this team.

 

I think I made this point clear in a post of mine back in a game thread a couple of days ago.

 

Mark Teahen will produce 7 more runs than Mark Kotsay given the same number of PAs for the next 58 games. Dayan Viciedo will produce 11 more runs on offense (and this is based on a conservative guesstimate).

 

Both of those guys can play 1B, maybe not as well as Kotsay, but they sure as hell hit a lot better.

 

 

[caulfield12]

It's not that there has to be a whipping boy. If there were no crappy players on this team, nobody would be complaining. We'd all be happy happy joy joy and I think almost everybody would want that.

 

I don't know how you can't complain about Mark Kotsay. He sucks at hitting and he's is DHing the most games on this team.

 

Chris Rongey brought this point up on the post game show, how there always seems to be one guy the Sox fans hate...well...let's run down this list.

 

2010 Mark Kotsay

2009 Dewayne Wise

2008 Javier Vazquez

2007 Darin Erstad

2006 Rob Mackowiak

 

3, if not 4, of the past 5 most hated people on this team are terrible baseball players. Kotsay is a even worse version of Darin Erstad. Ozzie keeps running this guy out there even though he hasn't proven he could hit in the past 4 months.

 

Don't blame the fans for pointing weaknesses out, blame the players for not performing and blame Ozzie for trotting him out there.

 

For 2008, you could add Nick Swisher to that list...

 

If Brian Anderson was capable of hitting the baseball, the name Rob Mackowiak wouldn't be there for 2006.

 

The funny thing is that Andruw Jones is actually hitting for a lower BA, but he adds defense and power, so nobody even complains about his complete inability to hit sliders or almost anything coming up to the plate these days.

[iamshack]

The Ranger seems to think that Teahen and Viciedo are not good enough to take Kotsay off this team.

 

I think I made this point clear in a post of mine back in a game thread a couple of days ago.

 

Mark Teahen will produce 7 more runs than Mark Kotsay given the same number of PAs for the next 58 games. Dayan Viciedo will produce 11 more runs on offense (and this is based on a conservative guesstimate).

 

Both of those guys can play 1B, maybe not as well as Kotsay, but they sure as hell hit a lot better.

And I referenced that in the Stealth Elf thread last night when the Kotsay argument came up with Rongey. We need to convince him that there are cumulative effects that do make a difference, whether they are gradual or not.

[caulfield12]

The Ranger seems to think that Teahen and Viciedo are not good enough to take Kotsay off this team.

 

I think I made this point clear in a post of mine back in a game thread a couple of days ago.

 

Mark Teahen will produce 7 more runs than Mark Kotsay given the same number of PAs for the next 58 games. Dayan Viciedo will produce 11 more runs on offense (and this is based on a conservative guesstimate).

 

Both of those guys can play 1B, maybe not as well as Kotsay, but they sure as hell hit a lot better.

 

That's crazy.

 

I mean, sure, he can echo the viewpoint of the players, nobody wants to see him DFA'ed when the White Sox are playing so well...but the only way anything will happen is if the White Sox fall out of first place.

 

We heard the same arguments in 2006 while the White Sox were hot in the first half with Anderson hitting in the 100's...that his defense more than made up for his lack of offense, that we had plenty of hitters and could carry one superior defender.

 

Except now the argument is not based on his actual ability (at this point in his career), it's based on these mysterious words like "chemistry," "moxie," "grinder," "he's the best pure baseball player on the team," etc.

 

Well, if he was actually the best baseball player on the team, he'd figure out how to take outside pitches the other way and not roll into 4-3 and 3U put-outs over and over again. Even Jim Thome could do that OCCASIONALLY. He has warning track power at this point in his career, but, if he hits the ball on the ground, Viciedo's a lot faster getting to first in a foot race.

 

So we're left with he hits left-handed, can play first base pretty well, has a hot wife and he tries hard and everyone in the clubhouse is pulling for him.

 

You would think we were running a "team building/motivation" workshop and not a major league baseball team.

 

They've even got KW buying into the fact they shouldn't change anything. We'll see.

[bschmaranz]

Every time I see Kotsay at the plate I almost feel like Ozzie is insulting my intelligence. But we've gotta blame Kenny for continuing to keep the man on the roster too.

[greg775]

That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back.

 

 

Believe me, I don't want Nick Swisher back. I do, however, want Gio Gonzalez back.

 

Not me. I don't want Swisher back. I still have a bad taste about how bad he was with the Sox.

Love the second post. I want Gio back and Clayton Richard too. I wouldn't mind getting Garland back, either, but I don't want to start a monumental eruption on Mt. Soxtalk, so strike that comment from my record, please.

 

The Kotsay situation is what it is. For some reason, Ozzie isn't sick of seeing his weak ground outs and pop ups. I think it'd make a veteran baseball guy like Ozzie puke as it makes us puke. I don't get worked up about it, because it seems inevitable Kotsay is gonna play just about every day. I wonder why Oz likes seeing Kotsay make out after out. It's ugly to the eye and Oz has the power to eradicate Kotsay from our eyes and his eyes.

Edited August 4, 2010 by greg775

[chw42]

That's crazy.

 

I mean, sure, he can echo the viewpoint of the players, nobody wants to see him DFA'ed when the White Sox are playing so well...but the only way anything will happen is if the White Sox fall out of first place.

 

We heard the same arguments in 2006 while the White Sox were hot in the first half with Anderson hitting in the 100's...that his defense more than made up for his lack of offense, that we had plenty of hitters and could carry one superior defender.

 

Except now the argument is not based on his actual ability (at this point in his career), it's based on these mysterious words like "chemistry," "moxie," "grinder," "he's the best pure baseball player on the team," etc.

 

Well, if he was actually the best baseball player on the team, he'd figure out how to take outside pitches the other way and not roll into 4-3 and 3U put-outs over and over again. Even Jim Thome could do that OCCASIONALLY. He has warning track power at this point in his career, but, if he hits the ball on the ground, Viciedo's a lot faster getting to first in a foot race.

 

So we're left with he hits left-handed, can play first base pretty well, has a hot wife and he tries hard and everyone in the clubhouse is pulling for him.

 

You would think we were running a "team building/motivation" workshop and not a major league baseball team.

 

They've even got KW buying into the fact they shouldn't change anything. We'll see.

 

BigSqwert also brought the point up about Jim Thome earlier today.

 

If Jim was such a good clubhouse guy, why was he let go so easily this off-season? Why does Kotsay get the exception?

 

I know there is a difference in letting a guy go in the off-season and in-season, but I'm sure some of the guys missed Thome too.

 

[lostfan]

For 2008, you could add Nick Swisher to that list...

 

If Brian Anderson was capable of hitting the baseball, the name Rob Mackowiak wouldn't be there for 2006.

 

The funny thing is that Andruw Jones is actually hitting for a lower BA, but he adds defense and power, so nobody even complains about his complete inability to hit sliders or almost anything coming up to the plate these days.

IIRC, the reason people were pissed off about Macowiak is that Anderson had started hitting at that point, and pretty well, it looked like he'd finally broken into the majors (we didn't know he'd be a bust in the following years yet) so really the only thing he was doing by playing Macowiak in CF was screwing Macowiak over.

 

(I'm not going to reply much after this post, I hate Anderson arguments)

[greg775]

If there were no crappy players on this team, nobody would be complaining. We'd all be happy happy joy joy and I think almost everybody would want that.

 

What are the odds of that? There are a couple crappy players on every team as well as veterans having off years and also deserving the tag of "crappy" for a given season.

[Pants Rowland]

It's not that there has to be a whipping boy. If there were no crappy players on this team, nobody would be complaining. We'd all be happy happy joy joy and I think almost everybody would want that.

 

I don't know how you can't complain about Mark Kotsay. He sucks at hitting and he's is DHing the most games on this team.

 

Chris Rongey brought this point up on the post game show, how there always seems to be one guy the Sox fans hate...well...let's run down this list.

 

2010 Mark Kotsay

2009 Dewayne Wise

2008 Javier Vazquez

2007 Darin Erstad

2006 Rob Mackowiak

 

3, if not 4, of the past 5 most hated people on this team are terrible baseball players. Kotsay is a even worse version of Darin Erstad. Ozzie keeps running this guy out there even though he hasn't proven he could hit in the past 4 months.

 

Don't blame the fans for pointing weaknesses out, blame the players for not performing and blame Ozzie for trotting him out there.

 

I know he has to deal with quite a few knuckleheads calling in to the postgame shows, but does anyone else think Ranger is a little full of it/himself?

 

I find his demeanor to be condescending at times and he seems to toe the company line far too often as well. Forgive me (or warn me) if I am crossing the line of personal attacks, but to me it hits home even more when he posts here and gets into arguments with others. For the most part, I think this site is not full of the same post game caller idiots he typically deals with and he shouldn't approach them as if they are.

 

On occasion he beats his arguments to death and appears both stubborn and arrogant. I also have noticed far too many posters on here stroke him because he is a supposed radio personality and they give him a free pass when he is spewing the cliches. I know he can't be held responsible for the actions of fanboys, but they act as if he is really courageous for posting and getting flamed. Well, isn't that a risk we all take?

 

A riskier approach would be if he stated that most of these "hated" players were put into a position to fail too often and that it is understandable when the fans take it out on the player, but the fans should realize the player is only trying to do the job asked of him by the manager. No, he won't ruffle feathers like that, but rather say dumb things like "Kotsay is not going to cost you the division...if the Sox lose the division, it will be because their pitching failed." That is what he actually posted in one topic here the other day and he got some level of praise for posting his opinions. It really burns me up!

 

Again, sorry if this is construed as a personal attack, but if we can flame Hawk and Stone for sugar coating the Kotsay issue, then I think Rongey is fair game, too.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

If you have no other options, it's one thing. It's the fact that Ozzie seems to do this when there are better options. That's what drives a lot of people crazy.

 

I think it's also Ozzie's tendency to overuse guys who could be nice contributing role-players. Mackowiak would have been an excellent reserve; Kotsay is a very good pinch-hitter and solid with the glove at first base. Hell, even Erstad and Wise could've been useful as extra outfielders. But, instead, Ozzie runs these guys out there constantly because they're "dependable" -- and they're awful. In the past, maybe that was Kenny's fault for affording no better options. This year, Ozzie gets more of the blame because he wanted a rotating DH (for the record, I understood his desire to have guys rotate through the position and was not a fan of Thome; in my view, Damon would've been very good in this role, particularly with this team) and because Viciedo is sitting on the bench when he could be getting more at-bats.

 

[BearingPro]

Maybe we can just face LHP the rest of the season?? Ozzie's awful love for Kotsay was getting a lot of play on B&B today. Might as well activate Teahen, promote Sale, DFA Kotsay, and send down Torres. We'd be such a better team.

 

It seems the more fans complain about a player or a situation, the more entrenched Ozzie becomes. It's his way of letting fans know he shouldn't be questioned.

 

Kotsay is the kind of player where the more you play him the less effective he is. He is a solid pinch hitter but that's about it. Yes, he should be designated for assignment when Teahen comes back.

 

[Jerksticks]

I know he has to deal with quite a few knuckleheads calling in to the postgame shows, but does anyone else think Ranger is a little full of it/himself?

 

I find his demeanor to be condescending at times and he seems to toe the company line far too often as well. Forgive me (or warn me) if I am crossing the line of personal attacks, but to me it hits home even more when he posts here and gets into arguments with others. For the most part, I think this site is not full of the same post game caller idiots he typically deals with and he shouldn't approach them as if they are.

 

On occasion he beats his arguments to death and appears both stubborn and arrogant. I also have noticed far too many posters on here stroke him because he is a supposed radio personality and they give him a free pass when he is spewing the cliches. I know he can't be held responsible for the actions of fanboys, but they act as if he is really courageous for posting and getting flamed. Well, isn't that a risk we all take?

 

A riskier approach would be if he stated that most of these "hated" players were put into a position to fail too often and that it is understandable when the fans take it out on the player, but the fans should realize the player is only trying to do the job asked of him by the manager. No, he won't ruffle feathers like that, but rather say dumb things like "Kotsay is not going to cost you the division...if the Sox lose the division, it will be because their pitching failed." That is what he actually posted in one topic here the other day and he got some level of praise for posting his opinions. It really burns me up!

 

Again, sorry if this is construed as a personal attack, but if we can flame Hawk and Stone for sugar coating the Kotsay issue, then I think Rongey is fair game, too.

 

I would assume this is because some people think if they say the right things (stroke) they will get invited to some Score Round Table of Sox Discussion and achieve fame and fortune beyond their wildest dreams for being the smartest Sox mind in the city. It's almost hard to read at times; like looking at the sun or watching Larry David getting himself into one his situations.

 

It's simple: Kotsay doesn't have the ability to help right now for whatever reason. Someone else might.

[SoxAce]

I hate seeing Rob Mackowiak as far as a "hated" player. People did not hate Rob as a player. They hated how Ozzie USED him. He was so misused when he was here, it's not even funny. How can anyone hate a baseball player who was born and raised a sox fan AND was misused as a player overall is beyond me. I liked Rob when he was here.. and still do.

 

I know he has to deal with quite a few knuckleheads calling in to the postgame shows, but does anyone else think Ranger is a little full of it/himself?

 

I find his demeanor to be condescending at times and he seems to toe the company line far too often as well. Forgive me (or warn me) if I am crossing the line of personal attacks, but to me it hits home even more when he posts here and gets into arguments with others. For the most part, I think this site is not full of the same post game caller idiots he typically deals with and he shouldn't approach them as if they are.

 

On occasion he beats his arguments to death and appears both stubborn and arrogant. I also have noticed far too many posters on here stroke him because he is a supposed radio personality and they give him a free pass when he is spewing the cliches. I know he can't be held responsible for the actions of fanboys, but they act as if he is really courageous for posting and getting flamed. Well, isn't that a risk we all take?

 

A riskier approach would be if he stated that most of these "hated" players were put into a position to fail too often and that it is understandable when the fans take it out on the player, but the fans should realize the player is only trying to do the job asked of him by the manager. No, he won't ruffle feathers like that, but rather say dumb things like "Kotsay is not going to cost you the division...if the Sox lose the division, it will be because their pitching failed." That is what he actually posted in one topic here the other day and he got some level of praise for posting his opinions. It really burns me up!

 

Again, sorry if this is construed as a personal attack, but if we can flame Hawk and Stone for sugar coating the Kotsay issue, then I think Rongey is fair game, too.

 

Believe me, you are not the only one. And if you think people are still stroking him, you haven't read his board recently.

Edited August 4, 2010 by J.Reedfan8

[Milkman delivers]

I know he has to deal with quite a few knuckleheads calling in to the postgame shows, but does anyone else think Ranger is a little full of it/himself?

 

I find his demeanor to be condescending at times and he seems to toe the company line far too often as well. Forgive me (or warn me) if I am crossing the line of personal attacks, but to me it hits home even more when he posts here and gets into arguments with others. For the most part, I think this site is not full of the same post game caller idiots he typically deals with and he shouldn't approach them as if they are.

 

On occasion he beats his arguments to death and appears both stubborn and arrogant. I also have noticed far too many posters on here stroke him because he is a supposed radio personality and they give him a free pass when he is spewing the cliches. I know he can't be held responsible for the actions of fanboys, but they act as if he is really courageous for posting and getting flamed. Well, isn't that a risk we all take?

 

A riskier approach would be if he stated that most of these "hated" players were put into a position to fail too often and that it is understandable when the fans take it out on the player, but the fans should realize the player is only trying to do the job asked of him by the manager. No, he won't ruffle feathers like that, but rather say dumb things like "Kotsay is not going to cost you the division...if the Sox lose the division, it will be because their pitching failed." That is what he actually posted in one topic here the other day and he got some level of praise for posting his opinions. It really burns me up!

 

Again, sorry if this is construed as a personal attack, but if we can flame Hawk and Stone for sugar coating the Kotsay issue, then I think Rongey is fair game, too.

 

I have liked you ever since I first saw your moniker.