How can an actual MLB manager continue to justify playing time for Mar

[Jerksticks]

Another quick counter to the whole "If we lose the division it won't be because of Kotsay, it will be because of the pitching failing" argument: Wouldn't it be nice if Teahen or Viciedo or Bridge had the opportunity to get a big hit to bail out a sub-par pitching performance? Kotsay can't bail Freddy out with a 2 out RBI base hit; I mean he CAN but the odds say he won't. The odds say the other guys, at the very least, MIGHT. UGHHH what a garbage argument and I can't believe a proclaimed Sox observer could say that AND believe it.

[joeynach]

Official prediction on 8-3-10 by Joeynach. When Mark Tehean comes off the DL and returns to the Sox active roster, instead of optioning Viciedo down to AAA to make room like everyone thinks, the team will release Mark (.220 BABIP) Kotsay.

[Pants Rowland]

I hate seeing Rob Mackowiak as far as a "hated" player. People did not hate Rob as a player. They hated how Ozzie USED him. He was so misused when he was here, it's not even funny. How can anyone hate a baseball player who was born and raised a sox fan AND was misused as a player overall is beyond me. I liked Rob when he was here.. and still do.

 

 

 

Believe me, you are not the only one. And if you think people are still stroking him, you haven't read his board recently.

 

I don't always have time to get through all the threads but it is good to hear that the trend is being reversed.

 

I have liked you ever since I first saw your moniker.

 

Thanks. Nothing beats "Milkman delivers", though. A great tribute to one of the best nicknames (and a really solid hitter) ever.

 

Official prediction on 8-3-10 by Joeynach. When Mark Tehean comes off the DL and returns to the Sox active roster, instead of optioning Viciedo down to AAA to make room like everyone thinks, the team will release Mark (.220 BABIP) Kotsay.

 

I hope you are a psychic. Heck, if this organization can unceremoniously release Carlton Fisk in 1993, you would think they could find a nice way to show Kotsay the door.

[Pants Rowland]

Another quick counter to the whole "If we lose the division it won't be because of Kotsay, it will be because of the pitching failing" argument: Wouldn't it be nice if Teahen or Viciedo or Bridge had the opportunity to get a big hit to bail out a sub-par pitching performance? Kotsay can't bail Freddy out with a 2 out RBI base hit; I mean he CAN but the odds say he won't. The odds say the other guys, at the very least, MIGHT. UGHHH what a garbage argument and I can't believe a proclaimed Sox observer could say that AND believe it.

 

Maybe it is correct that Kotsay won't cost you a division. However, with how tough all pitching in the playoffs can be, having him on a playoff roster, let alone in the lineup, could definitely cost you a trip to the ALCS or WS. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, though.

[greg775]

I find his demeanor to be condescending at times and he seems to toe the company line far too often as well. Forgive me (or warn me) if I am crossing the line of personal attacks, but to me it hits home even more when he posts here and gets into arguments with others. For the most part, I think this site is not full of the same post game caller idiots he typically deals with and he shouldn't approach them as if they are.

 

On occasion he beats his arguments to death and appears both stubborn and arrogant. I also have noticed far too many posters on here stroke him because he is a supposed radio personality and they give him a free pass when he is spewing the cliches. I know he can't be held responsible for the actions of fanboys, but they act as if he is really courageous for posting and getting flamed. Well, isn't that a risk we all take?

 

I disagree. I think he does a good job on the postgame dealing with a lot of crazies and is not condescending on here. Sometimes his view is opposite of the norm and he is not afraid to state it.

And ... I would turn down any invitation to be on any roundtable discussion with him or on the air, so I'm not kissing his ass here in hopes of anything like that, which somebody stated.

Condescending? Can you imagine hosting a talk show after a White Sox loss? I haven't seen anybody stroke him on here, BTW. I like reading his stuff because he disagrees with the majority opinion on here and has arguments to back his opinion just as others on here have arguments to back their opinions.

Edited August 4, 2010 by greg775

[whitesoxfan101]

I will say in Ranger's defense that he has to deal with some serious dummies on the postgame show. So if he comes across as condescending, stubborn, and arrogant there, I can see how it happens. I don't even blame him for towing the company line, because at the end of the day, he wants to keep his job I'm sure. But the posters here are a lot smarter than the callers he gets, and I think he needs to understand that. Ranger is not smarter about the White Sox than everybody or anybody here just because he hosts the postgame show, so if he wants to come here and defend the White Sox, he's going to have to bring stronger arguments than what I typically see if he wants to be taken seriously. Or in other words, he's held to the exact same standard of any other poster (at least in my eyes).

Edited August 4, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[greg775]

Ranger is not smarter about the White Sox than everybody or anybody here just because he hosts the postgame show, so if he wants to come here and defend the White Sox, he's going to have to bring stronger arguments than what I typically see if he wants to be taken seriously. Or in other words, he's held to the exact same standard of any other poster (at least in my eyes).

 

Fair enough, Soxfan, but I think in his eyes the chemistry/clubhouse issue is a strong point. He said that it means more to a team than we realize. It's fair of him to push that issue, which to him appears to be a strong issue. He seemed to be saying he feels it's not always about numbers. It's about a team being a team and the clubhouse is a big part of that. People seem to counter that Oz could make him a bench coach. Well, he prolly doesn't want to be a bench coach. He wants to get a hit every nine at bats or so.

Edited August 4, 2010 by greg775

[chunk23]

That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back.

 

That's because Swisher is actually good at baseball and was traded for clubhouse issues.

 

 

For 2008, you could add Nick Swisher to that list...

 

If Brian Anderson was capable of hitting the baseball, the name Rob Mackowiak wouldn't be there for 2006.

 

The funny thing is that Andruw Jones is actually hitting for a lower BA, but he adds defense and power, so nobody even complains about his complete inability to hit sliders or almost anything coming up to the plate these days.

 

Jones has been barely adequate, but there's no sense in complaining about him when the other half of the platoon is so much worse. He has a higher OBP and that power difference is significant.

[ScottyDo]

Maybe it is correct that Kotsay won't cost you a division. However, with how tough all pitching in the playoffs can be, having him on a playoff roster, let alone in the lineup, could definitely cost you a trip to the ALCS or WS. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, though.

Oof. That hurts. The thought of Kotsay getting significant playing time in the regular season only bothers me marginally, but this is the first time I've thought about a lineup with Kotsay batting sixth IN THE PLAYOFFS. Ouch. And I'm not one of the guys who loses sleep over our DH situation, but I'd still be pretty mad at Ozzie. Somehow, I think cooler heads will prevail eventually, but I'm not sure what I'm basing that on.

 

As far as Ranger goes, I actually didn't know he was Rongey for a while on these here boards, so I just thought he was another poster until I noticed exactly how much attention his every little comment got. To some extent, I think that puts a target on his back around here. All in all, though, the treatment of Rongey is roundly similar to the treatment of other people who run counter to the board's general train of thought. There's definitely something to be said for the consistency there. However, I wish people were more open to the idea that a: statistics rarely get to end the conversation like we want them to and b: baseball is largely a game of opinions. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have so many things to argue about.

 

P.S. I'm not an anti-stats guy by any means, but you can't just throw WAR up there and declare the conversation over. It's got uncertainty just like the "eye test" does.

[chunk23]

Oof. That hurts. The thought of Kotsay getting significant playing time in the regular season only bothers me marginally, but this is the first time I've thought about a lineup with Kotsay batting sixth IN THE PLAYOFFS. Ouch. And I'm not one of the guys who loses sleep over our DH situation, but I'd still be pretty mad at Ozzie. Somehow, I think cooler heads will prevail eventually, but I'm not sure what I'm basing that on.

 

 

Haven't we been saying that for months now though?

[balfanman]

I will say in Ranger's defense that he has to deal with some serious dummies on the postgame show. So if he comes across as condescending, stubborn, and arrogant there, I can see how it happens. I don't even blame him for towing the company line, because at the end of the day, he wants to keep his job I'm sure. But the posters here are a lot smarter than the callers he gets, and I think he needs to understand that. Ranger is not smarter about the White Sox than everybody or anybody here just because he hosts the postgame show, so if he wants to come here and defend the White Sox, he's going to have to bring stronger arguments than what I typically see if he wants to be taken seriously. Or in other words, he's held to the exact same standard of any other poster (at least in my eyes).

 

I agree with this, however; Chris does have access to some inside information that none of us do. I don't believe that I "stroke" Chris anymore than any other poster as I like to get the views of eveyone here. I can disagree with someone without resorting to nastiness and name calling. In this case I disagree vehemently with Ranger on the Kotsay issue, but I would love to encourage Chris to keep coming back and posting his opinions as well as any other information that he can give us.

[ScottyDo]

Haven't we been saying that for months now though?

Yeah, we have. I think playoffs are a different story, though. Part of the reason Kotsay has been getting so much time, I think, is that Ozzie would rather over-rely on Kotsay during the grind (heh) of the season to ensure that others are fresh for August/September/Beyond. Once crunch time hits -- and I could very well be wrong about this -- I have some faith that Kotsay will see a lot more bench. Also, Viciedo can't be ignored forever if he keeps raking.

[balfanman]

I posted this in another topic, but since we are discussing (running out of town) Kotsay here too I thought that I would repeat it. Sorry about the duplication.

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but do you think that with the players themselves burning Kotsays' bats the other day in an effort to get him going, that his fellow teamates are getting a little fed up with trying to carry his much less than solid bat in the lineup almost evey game. I'm thinking that with K.W. trying pretty desparately to add another bat that Ozzie too sees the writing on the wall at this point. Could it be that the reason Kotsay started both games of the twin bill was a last ditch effort by Ozzie to get Kotsays' bat going because he knows that time is short, and if Kotsay doesn't justify himself soon that Ozzie will have no other choice but to DFA him in favor of Teahen. Ozzie can be extremely stubborn at times, but he isn't stupid.

Edited August 4, 2010 by balfanman

[greg775]

I agree with this, however; Chris does have access to some inside information that none of us do. I don't believe that I "stroke" Chris anymore than any other poster as I like to get the views of eveyone here. I can disagree with someone without resorting to nastiness and name calling. In this case I disagree vehemently with Ranger on the Kotsay issue, but I would love to encourage Chris to keep coming back and posting his opinions as well as any other information that he can give us.

 

I almost get the feeling some stubborn posters don't want any inside information. Which is crazy. It's like they know Kotsay sucks and don't want to hear ANYTHING to the contrary. I mean I think he sucks as well, but if there are reasons for keeping him around and Ranger knows them, it is of value to us to learn those reasons IMO.

Edited August 4, 2010 by greg775

[Jerksticks]

I almost get the feeling some stubborn posters don't want any inside information. Which is crazy. It's like they know Kotsay sucks and don't want to hear ANYTHING to the contrary. I mean I think he sucks as well, but if there are reasons for keeping him around and Ranger knows them, it is of value to us to learn those reasons IMO.

 

 

Ranger aside, are there any reasons to keep him though? I feel bad for the guy because these could be his last few weeks as a pro. Like someone else said, if we DFA him he gets to spend more time with his wife which is a win for us and Kotsay.

[BigSqwert]

Ranger aside, are there any reasons to keep him though? I feel bad for the guy because these could be his last few weeks as a pro. Like someone else said, if we DFA him he gets to spend more time with his wife which is a win for us and Kotsay.

Yeah but if he no longer plays baseball maybe his wife leaves him?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Yeah but if he no longer plays baseball maybe his wife leaves him?

 

I'd think the odds are better she'd be embarrassed he does play baseball and leave him...

[heirdog]

Teahen can do everything Kotsay does and most things better. He is a left handed bat to boot. Lillibridge and Viciedo have been performing extremely well and we're in a pennant race. NO way we keep Kotsay once Teahen is back. Man-love only goes so far and hopefully KW makes the decision and not Ozzie, whose stubborness in proving he was right will no doubt want to keep him. I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie called Lance Berkman and said, "I'll never play you. I love Mark Kotsay, so enforce your NTC or rot on this bench."

 

[JohnCangelosi]

Official prediction on 8-3-10 by Joeynach. When Mark Tehean comes off the DL and returns to the Sox active roster, instead of optioning Viciedo down to AAA to make room like everyone thinks, the team will release Mark (.220 BABIP) Kotsay.

I hope you're right...if this isn't the most obvious move I don't know what is...

[RockRaines]

I think Kotsay is just distracted by his wife sexting me all the time.

[caulfield12]

Are you Dave Martinez?

[elrockinMT]

I don't know why but him playing made me especially livid today. He is the all-time worst Ozzie man-crush by a mile.

 

Not sure why the title got cut off, worked when I was making the thread. But you all know who I'm referring too.

 

 

If you are on the team you play, but he does plays a lot. I am thinking he must be getting good wood on the ball just right at someone. Plus he is a LH bat and can spell Konerko at 1B

[BigSqwert]

I am thinking he must be getting good wood on the ball just right at someone.

He has put up terrible numbers for 4+ months now. It can't just be bad luck.

 

And who cares if he bats lefty? If you can't hit RHP or LHP does it really matter which side of the plate you bat from?

Edited August 4, 2010 by BigSqwert

[whitesoxfan101]

I almost get the feeling some stubborn posters don't want any inside information. Which is crazy. It's like they know Kotsay sucks and don't want to hear ANYTHING to the contrary. I mean I think he sucks as well, but if there are reasons for keeping him around and Ranger knows them, it is of value to us to learn those reasons IMO.

 

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. The only "inside information" reason to keep Kotsay is he's good in the clubhouse. But being good in the clubhouse does not make up for being a horrible baseball player. There is no practical joke or clubhouse speech that can change the fact that Dayan Viciedo and Brent Lillibridge are contributing to this team at a significantly higher clip on the field than Kotsay is. And that's why it's a no brainer that he should be gone when Teahen is back. Winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around.

 

Ozzie can be extremely stubborn at times, but he isn't stupid.

 

I think just on general merits, Ozzie is a smart baseball man. But his level of stubborn is VERY high, and it gets in the way of logic far too frequently for him, which makes him look dumb.

Edited August 4, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Jerksticks]

He has put up terrible numbers for 4+ months now. It can't just be bad luck.

 

And who cares if he bats lefty? If you can't hit RHP or LHP does it really matter which side of the plate you bat from?

 

 

So what are some of his worst stretches so far this season? Longest 0-fer or maybe some 1-25s? Basically, would Mike Caruso's bat be an upgrade?

 

Maybe we should compile a detailed chart of suckiness just in case KW passes through these here boards.