Game Thread: White Sox (61-46) @ Detroit (53-54) 12:05 CDT

[LittleHurt05]

At least he's not the DH today, but is actually playing 1B, so Konerko can get some rest, but keep his bat in the lineup.

[whitesoxfan101]

We need Teahan back and f***ing Kotsay better be DFA. I can't handle this garbage anymore.

 

The article in the one thread basically confirms Kotsay is staying when Teahen gets back. Kenny has to be kicking himself that he brought Kotsay back right now. It's his fault Kotsay is on the team at all, so KW deserves blame, but Ozzie deserves every bit of blame he gets for how much he's playing (I'd say the blame should be split for the fact he hasn't been/won't be DFA'd).

[Steve9347]

He has hits this series. Hits! Plural!

You, sir, are brilliant, correct and also accurate. I applaud this post.

 

In my first White Sox related post in a month, I think it's fairly obvious that Teahen will be DHing and working his way around the infield upon his return, and Kotsay won't be anywhere near a bat.

 

If they send down Viciedo, that'd be really disheartening.

[BigSqwert]

The article in the one thread basically confirms Kotsay is staying when Teahen gets back. Kenny has to be kicking himself that he brought Kotsay back right now. It's his fault Kotsay is on the team at all, so KW deserves blame, but Ozzie deserves every bit of blame he gets for how much he's playing (I'd say the blame should be split for the fact he hasn't been/won't be DFA'd).

I don't get it. Doesn't Kenny have the authority to DFA Kotsay?

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't get it. Doesn't Kenny have the authority to DFA Kotsay?

 

He doesn't have the authority to fire Ozzie, so I don't think any of us know if he has the authority to overrule Ozzie on anything.

[hawksox13]

He doesn't have the authority to fire Ozzie, so I don't think any of us know if he has the authority to overrule Ozzie on anything.

 

Looking back I think Reinsdorf just didn't want Kenny Williams making a rushed, emotional decision about Ozzie Guillen. Overall Ozzie is a pretty good manager and I think Reinsdorf thought this thing would get turned around and everything would work itself out. I don't think that situation completely tells that Kenny has no authority. Turns out it was a good thing not to fire Ozzie. I think if Kenny finds a way to get a left handed bat, Kotsay will be the player to go. Until Kenny finds that, we're stuck with Kotsay.

[Balta1701]

I think if Kenny finds a way to get a left handed bat, Kotsay will be the player to go. Until Kenny finds that, we're stuck with Kotsay.

Basically, Kenny needs to hire a "trainer" and have him work with this "Teahen" guy until he can say "he is healed".

[BigSqwert]

Looking back I think Reinsdorf just didn't want Kenny Williams making a rushed, emotional decision about Ozzie Guillen. Overall Ozzie is a pretty good manager and I think Reinsdorf thought this thing would get turned around and everything would work itself out. I don't think that situation completely tells that Kenny has no authority. Turns out it was a good thing not to fire Ozzie. I think if Kenny finds a way to get a left handed bat, Kotsay will be the player to go. Until Kenny finds that, we're stuck with Kotsay.

But who cares if Kotsay is left handed? He doesn't hit RHP or LHP. I'd rather use a good right handed hitter up there than a lefty that can't hit for s***.

 

And why are you guys talking about Kenny firing Ozzie? I asked if Kenny was able to DFA Kotsay.

Edited August 5, 2010 by BigSqwert

[hawksox13]

But who cares if Kotsay is left handed? He doesn't hit RHP or LHP? I'd rather use a good right handed hitter up there than a lefty that can't hit for s***.

 

And why are you guys talking about Kenny firing Ozzie? I asked if Kenny was able to DFA Kotsay.

 

I'm not saying I want Kotsay to stay by any means. I think when Teahen comes back it should be the end of Kotsay. But I don't think that's what will happen. From my understanding a GM has authority over who's on the roster, a manager has the authority to determine how those players are utilized.

[whitesoxfan101]

Looking back I think Reinsdorf just didn't want Kenny Williams making a rushed, emotional decision about Ozzie Guillen. Overall Ozzie is a pretty good manager and I think Reinsdorf thought this thing would get turned around and everything would work itself out. I don't think that situation completely tells that Kenny has no authority. Turns out it was a good thing not to fire Ozzie. I think if Kenny finds a way to get a left handed bat, Kotsay will be the player to go. Until Kenny finds that, we're stuck with Kotsay.

 

Well you're right that not firing Ozzie has worked out since we're in first place. The point you make about getting a left handed bat though.....Teahen IS that left handed bat. Which is why it's asinine that Kotsay will probably stay even when Teahen is activated.

[BigSqwert]

Which is why it's asinine that Kotsay will probably stay even when Teahen is activated.

You don't like having two of the exact same players (except one can't hit) on the roster?

Edited August 5, 2010 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

You don't like having two of the exact same players (except one can't hit) on the roster?

And the one that can't hit also can't play any position other than 1b.

[BigSqwert]

I just need to try and stop thinking about this situation before I get a brain aneurysm.

[Frank_Thomas]

Really? BS Ozzie. You yourself said last night that Viciedo would be giving Omar a day off. I don't understand WTF Tank did to deserve this little of playing time. Ozzie continues to say he picks he places for tank to succeed, bull! He is a 21 yr old kid that needs to be playing everyday or needs to be sent down. All this kid has done is SMOKE the ball (not to people like that pos Kotsay). At this point we should have traded this guy for Dunn atleast we wouldn't suffer from seeing Kotsay and Viciedo would have the chance to play and prove he is ready.

 

Ozzie admit your wrong and get over Kotsay,u were wrong thi guy is a BENCH player NOT a fing DH.

[whitesoxfan101]

I just need to try and stop thinking about this situation before I get a brain aneurysm.

 

If you think it's fun here now, imagine this place at the end of the season if Kotsay keeps hitting like this and we miss the playoffs by a game or two.

[clyons]

Well you're right that not firing Ozzie has worked out since we're in first place. The point you make about getting a left handed bat though.....Teahen IS that left handed bat. Which is why it's asinine that Kotsay will probably stay even when Teahen is activated.

 

Kotsay is NOT leaving the team, and I don't necessarily want him to, I just don't want him in the regular line-up.

 

The team (players, coaches and front office) really seems to like and respect him. Those of us who eat, sleep and drink the White Sox have all heard what a great clubhouse guy he is and how much "intangible" leadership stuff he brings to the club. Given the turnaround this team has accomplished, that absolutely cannot be ignored or discounted. I'm not saying its all due to Kotsay, but without those kind of "intangibles," this season dies back in June.

 

There's no question that if he was a jagoff like Swisher, he'd be gone. But he isn't. He isn't going away because (imo) nobody who has any say in the matter--especially in the culbhouse--wants him to go away, regardless if he hits or not. Its just us, because all we see is his suckitude.

 

I do think Ozzie will give Teahen a lot of Kotsay's at bats, but those that think he's getting cut at this late date of the season are just not being real.

[whitesoxfan101]

Kotsay is NOT leaving the team, and I don't necessarily want him to, I just don't want him in the regular line-up.

 

The team (players, coaches and front office) really seems to like and respect him. Those of us who eat, sleep and drink the White Sox have all heard what a great clubhouse guy he is and how much "intangible" leadership stuff he brings to the club. Given the turnaround this team has accomplished, that absolutely cannot be ignored or discounted. I'm not saying its all due to Kotsay, but without those kind of "intangibles," this season dies back in June.

 

There's no question that if he was a jagoff like Swisher, he'd be gone. But he isn't. He isn't going away because (imo) nobody who has any say in the matter--especially in the culbhouse--wants him to go away, regardless if he hits or not. Its just us, because all we see is his suckitude.

 

I do think Ozzie will give Teahen a lot of Kotsay's at bats, but those that think he's getting cut at this late date of the season are just not being real.

 

There is no place on the team for Kotsay once Teahen is back. Up until Teahen's return, there has been a place for him, which is why my issue has been how often he's played, not the fact he's on the team in general. Once Teahen comes back though, the issue becomes the fact that Kotsay on this team in general.

 

Even if I give you that his clubhouse presence "helped" the team when they were down and out, the fact is they're not down and out anymore. We need the best players who will produce, contribute, and carry this team into the playoffs, and once Teahen is back, Kotsay isn't among them.

Edited August 5, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[clyons]

There is no place on the team for Kotsay once Teahen is back. Up until Teahen's return, there has been a place for him, which is why my issue has been how often he's played, not the fact he's on the team in general. Once Teahen comes back though, the issue becomes the fact that Kotsay on this team in general.

 

Even if I give you that his clubhouse presence "helped" the team when they were down and out, the fact is they're not down and out anymore. We need the best players who will produce, contribute, and carry this team into the playoffs, and once Teahen is back, Kotsay isn't among them.

 

Baseball wise, I totally agree with everything you've said. But I'll still be absolutely shocked if he goes down.

 

I think the bat burning thing said alot about how he is regarded. Its total specualtion on my part, but I'd guess if the players held a secret vote, they'd vote to keep him. This is an organization that values loyalty and operates by "feel" more than most. In this instance, you could very well say they do it to a fault, but I still say he's staying.

[whitesoxfan101]

I think the bat burning thing said alot about how he is regarded. Its total specualtion on my part, but I'd guess if the players held a secret vote, they'd vote to keep him. This is an organization that values loyalty and operates by "feel" more than most. In this instance, you could very well say they do it to a fault, but I still say he's staying.

 

I don't argue with any of this (and I would definitely take the side that we're loyal to a fault). I just wish we'd understand that sometimes, the players and even the manager, who tend to have a bunker, us agaisnt the world mentality, don't always know what's best for the team. Although that thought process doesn't include the idea that Kenny wants Kotsay to stay too, and if he does, we're just epically screwed because he should know better.

Edited August 5, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[clyons]

I don't argue with any of this (and I would definitely take the side that we're loyal to a fault). I just wish we'd understand that sometimes, the players and even the manager, who tend to have a bunker, us agaisnt the world mentality, don't always know what's best for the team. Although that thought process doesn't include the idea that Kenny wants Kotsay to stay too, and if he does, we're just epically screwed because he should know better.

 

I certainly hope that Kenny does look at this with cold blood, and I do believe he will. However, I think his analysis will involve more than just what's on the back of Kotsay's baseball card, because based on that alone, its a total and complete no-brainer.

[whitesoxfan101]

I certainly hope that Kenny does look at this with cold blood, and I do believe he will. However, I think his analysis will involve more than just what's on the back of Kotsay's baseball card, because based on that alone, its a total and complete no-brainer.

 

If our clubhouse is fragile enough that removing one of the worst players from it will have a noteably negative impact, than it wasn't built particularly well in the first place.

[Kyyle23]

Im not saying that Kotsay isnt worth complaining about, because he certainly is IMO, but hey look the Sox are 15 games over .500 and still playing quality ball.

[Frank_Thomas]

JD was a great clubhouse guy too, and well sold him up the river after his second half last year and I rather take his second half then watch Kotsay ground out or fly out every atbat and have to hear about his "tough luck". And Dye was the world series MVP and could easily do what Kotsay does (spell PK and Quentin).

 

Next, this is PROFESSIONAL baseball, and these guy make millions a year to produce. I don't care if this guy is a leader in the clubhouse. If he has that much of an affect on this team that if he sat and was a bench player like he should be and thy changed his leadership abilities, well then that's pittiful. Even more it's sad we use chemistry as an excuse for a guy to stay, and people accept it. The rest of the team will adjjust if Kotaay was gone and if they don't/can't well then they all need psychiatric help.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Im not saying that Kotsay isnt worth complaining about, because he certainly is IMO, but hey look the Sox are 15 games over .500 and still playing quality ball.

 

This.

 

Plus the fact that it's become obvious Ozzie isn't going to change anything. And as frustrating as that may be, I'd personally find it frustrating to allow myself to get all up in arms over and over when you basically know in advance what to expect.

[clyons]

If our clubhouse is fragile enough that removing one of the worst players from it will have a noteably negative impact, than it wasn't built particularly well in the first place.

 

 

I agree with this too. And again, I'm not saying that keeping Kotsay is the right the thing to do, just that I expect it will happen and that "chemistry" will be a factor.