a great post overlooked in the game thread...

[lostfan]

You're not going to get a warning, that's just silly talk.

[Milkman delivers]

You dont have to worry. Many of the people have moved on or at least to different forums on this message board. So Ill just go back to being a ghost, while the rest of you can have what has become a pity party.

 

Its not difficult to be negative, its really easy. You win no matter what. If the team sucks, youre right, if the team wins, you say that it won despite your complaints. Its a no lose situation.

 

Its a lot harder to actually be positive and believe. If they blow a game like today or 2 days ago, youve got nothing to hide behind. You dont have a thread where you can say that they would have won if only the Sox had listened to you. You dont get to take solace in how much "smarter" you are than the current owner, GM or manager.

 

Football and basketball are starting soon, you can find me in those threads. They are far more bearable. Id rather listen to fans who are overly confident and think their teams walk on water, then listening to a fans who have a first place team and find something new to harp on every day.

 

The mere fact some one would want another poster to leave just saddens me. I may not agree with certain people, I may have thought certain posters in the past were dumber than a rock, but I dont think I have ever wanted another poster to leave some where that they enjoyed.

 

Anyway, dont worry, Ill tow the company line or just keep my mouth shut. No need to earn myself a warning for being positive and optimistic and trying to enjoy the White Sox, instead of always finding something negative to say.

 

Not at all what I said. I'm just saying that, if the constant complaining bothers someone, why would they keep subjecting themselves to it? The site has been this way for quite some time and it's obviously not changing.

[Soxbadger]

Oh I know, I just want to show how ridiculous its all become. (That was to lostfan)

 

why would they keep subjecting themselves to it? The site has been this way for quite some time and it's obviously not changing.

 

If you care about something you dont give up, no matter how bleak it may seem.

 

The same reason I dont hate on the White Sox, is the same reason that Ill always try and make this place better(at least whats better imo). Id rather be the last one left, then wonder if I could have done a little more.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2010 by Soxbadger

[SoxAce]

Badge, you are one of the last posters here I want gone (especially to one of the original guys). But at the same time, I'm not gonna beg you. Just do what you want to do. That said, we need those posters on this site that add solid arguments. As much as people rip Greg, I think he is actually a poster who keeps arguments/discussion (usually not smart, but 'discussion' nonetheless) key.

Edited August 8, 2010 by J.Reedfan8

[Greg Hibbard]

This isn't the exact same thread as yesterday, if you're referring to my other post-loss thread.

 

My other thread was referring to overreacting after 1 road loss

This thread is referring to the general tone of the board

[lostfan]

This isn't the exact same thread as yesterday, if you're referring to my other post-loss thread.

 

My other thread was referring to overreacting after 1 road loss

This thread is referring to the general tone of the board

I just meant the negativity in general... meh, maybe I'm just too wound up right now. After all, I'm b****ing about b****ing about b****ing.

[ThunderBolt]

I'd hate to be on a board with uniform opinion. One of the joys of this board for me is being challenged by other posters for my opinions on guys like Swish or Nix,. It makes me think and it makes me work to make myself a better baseball fan. I'd hate to see this board be swallowed up by either blind optimism or bitterness. I like our happy medium.

[chw42]

I'd hate to be on a board with uniform opinion. One of the joys of this board for me is being challenged by other posters for my opinions on guys like Swish or Nix,. It makes me think and it makes me work to make myself a better baseball fan. I'd hate to see this board be swallowed up by either blind optimism or bitterness. I like our happy medium.

 

Exactly. If all this board was just people loving the White Sox and saying they're the best team in the world, it would be really boring and dry.

 

The diversity of opinion is what is great and I don't think people need to make threads saying that everybody should think one way.

Edited August 9, 2010 by chw42

[Kyyle23]

None of us want blind optimism/cheering or blind pessimism/hate. What I personally could do without is the repeated threads. The fire greg walker threads. The DFA Mark Kotsay threads. The Bobby Jenks sucks and is fat threads. The Ozzie Guillen is an idiot threads.

 

Sometimes you guys think you have this original gripe when it could be grouped in with a similar thread that already happened and was discussed. Thats all. Pessimism is a way of the messageboard. People do it because as previously stated, its easy and many times you will be right just by the nature of the game.

 

Some people also repeat the same thought over and over in different threads and come off as a parrot. I could do without that too. Im not going to follow everyone around and point out everyone who does it, but if you type something out and think to yourself "Maybe I already said that too many times", then you probably did.

 

Arguments and discussion are part of the website. When the arguments break down into the same thing over and over, that is when people get upset

[Pumpkin Escobar]

Soxbadger wrote:

 

 

 

I really think this is a great post and that it deserves its own thread. Yes, it sucked to lose 2 to the Orioles, and yes it would suck even more to lose 3 games to the Orioles. It really sucked. However, it's become increasingly alarming that this team has literally no margin for error before most of the board thinks they have no chance at well, anything, even sometimes don't even deserve paying attention to for the remainder of the day. The moment the Sox are down against a bad team people are flying off of a bridge in the game thread. Why exactly is that? People rode out a terrible August in 2005, and showed a lot more patience through something like a 5-13 stretch, and this was before the White Sox could even prove they could win a pennant, let alone a World Series.

 

What exactly has changed? More importantly, what exactly was expected from fans going into this season? I think 90% of the board probably had this team winning between 81 and 90 games and in the hunt for the division, but I think most thought they wouldn't necessarily have enough offense. I personally had them in 3rd place at around 81 wins. Now, we are in a pennant race. This team is on pace to win, what, 91-92 games? Would you rather change places with a team like the tanking Rays right now, who someone pointed out earlier started 30-11 and have gone like 4 over .500 since?

 

When we were 9.5 back, the most distressing thing was that a lot of our young talent appeared to be a mirage. Now, it appears that Beckham is a bona fide major leaguer after all, that Quentin actually does have value, that Peavy can in fact pitch in the AL, and that Ramirez is who we thought he was. Our core seems pretty damned good. Now, we are poised to compete for the title in '10, and certainly also be in the hunt for '11.

 

So why all the negativity? Why is their such a low tolerance for anything bad happening?

 

 

To answer your question, the reason is that "for all the negativity" that people throw around it comes back to the fact that this team was one of the worst in baseball at the start of the season. It took a monumental run, the likes that we will hardly see again, for this team to get to only a .5 lad in the division. So when you factor in that people did want to deal vets, discuss online how bad we were, and explain that now we are in the race but we have holes that need to be addressed because this team still has flaws which we can better before the postseason. When realizing that is the truth and accepting the fact that we had a rare win streak, which is great and has made this season worth watching, it still came down to us getting hot at the most opprtune time (being against the NL for the majority of it).

 

This team before the season had several question marks which would make any baseball fan question what we were thinking. Their was the question of can Peavy be Peavy, he wasn't, but he was still effective and got kind of hot in there. We questioned if Quentin could rebound, he didn't at first but has played stellar since. How would Beckham progress? Would Rios be of any use? Why are we starting "Doc" from major league 3 instead of Hudson as our 5. Not a whole lot made sense and didn't give a huge vibe of hope for a good 2months.

 

What we didn't know was Paulie would have a career year. We didnt know Rios would as well. So the concerns about Quentin needing to be healthy so we have some power kind of went out the window with those 2, and then magically Quentin got hot. Everyone got hot, even the struggling pitching. Sure the team is built on pitching as someone said but that isn't everything. We have had many a games where the bats have been the reason for it.

 

A few things I keep in perspected are that we were bad early on. We have some very bad players and big holes. We have guys which we all want gone and we have a pathetic farm. Had we dealt away Jenks, Paulie, and whoever. Ya I'd be sad to see some vets go and we wouldn't have seen the run we had or be in competitive games down the stretch but we wouldn't have thought twice because hindsight is 20/20. We'd instead be optimistic about the guys we got in return and be planning Kenny's offseason which probably would've been exciting as well. We would've in all likelihood put together a overhaul roster but I'd imagine we would've filled every holeon the squad.

 

Instead, that we had that incredible run and we are only half a game up on Minnesota. That kind of run from a team that was truly great you'd hope to be up by 7-8 games. We aren't. So we can get cocky about it, as we basically have, as say we have what it takes to get there as is or we could've addressed some of the remaining holes and taken a good team and made it great. We didn't.

 

Last comparison I'll make. Think of it as a title fight in boxing or something. We just hit baseball with pretty much everything we had. some of the greatest rounds ever. Knockdowns, big blows, etc. We still only caught up and tied on the scorecard. We should be up by a ton and now we go into the stretch with a better fighter. In our case, we aren't bleeding or swollen over, we are missing an Ace, a couple guys in that pen are shaky as can be and we have a monsterous glaring hole at a position which was a gift to our league. You don't hit a DH slot with a guy hitting 200. It's stupid. Why use a DH and not a pitcher at that point? So we have a month to tune and tweak things. Cant wait. Lets go boys.

 

***can we stop losing to dogs*** teams? only request.

[iamshack]

This isn't the exact same thread as yesterday, if you're referring to my other post-loss thread.

 

My other thread was referring to overreacting after 1 road loss

This thread is referring to the general tone of the board

You remember how I said Friday's loss was unacceptable?

 

This is why.

 

Not because that loss killed us Friday, but because it killed us today.

 

You've got to win the extremely favorable matchups when you have them, because you're going to lose games like this today.

 

We win that game Friday night, today's loss still hurts, but not like it is right now.

[fathom]

You remember how I said Friday's loss was unacceptable?

 

This is why.

 

Not because that loss killed us Friday, but because it killed us today.

 

You've got to win the extremely favorable matchups when you have them, because you're going to lose games like this today.

 

We win that game Friday night, today's loss still hurts, but not like it is right now.

 

great post shack

[greg775]

You dont have to worry. Many of the people have moved on or at least to different forums on this message board. So Ill just go back to being a ghost, while the rest of you can have what has become a pity party.

 

Its not difficult to be negative, its really easy. You win no matter what. If the team sucks, youre right, if the team wins, you say that it won despite your complaints. Its a no lose situation.

 

 

That's what I've been saying. Negativity always wins.

 

And don't worry milkman, with your suggestion people just leave if they don't like the direction of the board. As the great badger indicated, don't worry, that is happening already. Thanks for your support.

[chw42]

That's what I've been saying. Negativity always wins.

 

And don't worry milkman, with your suggestion people just leave if they don't like the direction of the board. As the great badger indicated, don't worry, that is happening already. Thanks for your support.

 

There's not that many options when it comes to fully devoted White Sox message boards. This and WSI are two of the major ones. I don't know of any other ones like this forum and WSI.

 

Unless you want to get brain hurt on the MLB.com White Sox message boards or something, there's really not that much of a choice. To me, this is by far the most intelligent group of people I've seen on a Sox message board.

[greg775]

You remember how I said Friday's loss was unacceptable?

 

This is why.

 

Not because that loss killed us Friday, but because it killed us today.

 

You've got to win the extremely favorable matchups when you have them, because you're going to lose games like this today.

 

We win that game Friday night, today's loss still hurts, but not like it is right now.

 

"You've got to win" doesn't make sense in baseball. Too many games. Too much s*** happens. It ain't like the Bears wetting the bed in an 18 game season or whatever they play in the NFL.

s*** happens in baseball. We are a mediocre to decent team. We don't win all the games "we're supposed to win."

There are no, "you've got to win" games this season regarding the Chicago White Sox. The team is what it is. A nice little team, nothing more, nothing too much less. Are you really surprised Baltimore on its home field is giving our team fits? I'm not.

Edited August 9, 2010 by greg775

[iamshack]

"You've got to win" doesn't make sense in baseball. Too many games. Too much s*** happens. It ain't like the Bears wetting the bed in an 18 game season or whatever they play in the NFL.

s*** happens in baseball. We are a mediocre to decent team. We don't win all the games "we're supposed to win."

There are no, "you've got to win" games this season regarding the Chicago White Sox. The team is what it is. A nice little team, nothing more, nothing too much less. Are you really surprised Baltimore on its home field is giving our team fits? I'm not.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

In fact, I don't know that I have ever disagreed with a series of posts more so than these that you've been posting over the course of the last week.

 

If I wanted to cheer on a team this way, I would wear a royal blue cap with a red "C" on it.

[Quin]

I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

In fact, I don't know that I have ever disagreed with a series of posts more so than these that you've been posting over the course of the last week.

 

If I wanted to cheer on a team this way, I would wear a royal blue cap with a red "C" on it.

 

This is a great post.

[caulfield12]

I could be way off, but does anyone think there's a connection with bigger problems in the US (economic setbacks, loss of jobs, loss of the belief that we'll have longer lifespans and higher earnings than our parents) and the seemingly more negative attitude around message boards in general?

 

I'm not going to pick on the Tea Party, that's for the political forum, but has anyone actually tried to read message boards ANYWHERE around cyberspace and come off feeling very concerned about the future?

 

Just about any Yahoo news story comment thread should give one pause...and even if some posters are using hyberbole to be dramatic, are making racist/sexist pronouncements to grab attention, something is seriously going wrong all across the country, and this board is just one mirror of that bigger issue.

 

It's not about right or left though...it's that loss of respect in general that's happened, the loss of belief or faith in public institutions. Some say in began in the 1970's with Watergate, but it has really coalesced in this country, in my opinion, since the first Clinton administration. You really had the feeling that at least 25% of the people in the US hated the president, wouldn't even use that term (POTUS) in referring to him. This happpened to Bush too, there's no doubt in my mind. In fact, if you just look around the media landscape, there's no longer a desire to provide balanced/objective information to anyone in the "middle" of the spectrum, which is supposedly where 70-80% of Americans are...yet CNN is crumbling, replaced by the more polarizing programs of Fox on the right and MSNBC on the left.

 

I can't say what caused this, but there has definitely been a breakdown in respect in terms of on-line communication. People say things to be controversial or get a lot of attention, just like in the "real world," Americans (many) will seemingly now do almost anything to become famous. It's better to be noticed, even if people hate or dislike you, than not to be noticed at all. Reasonableness, however you want to define that characteristic or quality, has almost gone out the window.

 

So I don't know how to prove it quantifiably, but some of these negative traits (attention-seeking, being controversial, pessimism winning out over optimism) are winning out in civic discourse everywhere, and soxtalk might be just one small example in the macro picture.

 

 

[hogan873]

"You've got to win" doesn't make sense in baseball. Too many games. Too much s*** happens. It ain't like the Bears wetting the bed in an 18 game season or whatever they play in the NFL.

s*** happens in baseball. We are a mediocre to decent team. We don't win all the games "we're supposed to win."

There are no, "you've got to win" games this season regarding the Chicago White Sox. The team is what it is. A nice little team, nothing more, nothing too much less. Are you really surprised Baltimore on its home field is giving our team fits? I'm not.

Sorry, I ususally don't do this, but worst...post...ever. Kidding a bit, but there are plenty of must win games in a season where you are playing for a division win against a team that wins and loses just as often as you do. I disagree that this is a mediocre to decent team. This team is better than mediocre, and the way they have been playing lately has shown that.

 

Why wouldn't you be pissed off by these loses to an inferior Baltimore team when winning a series like this is so important? The Sox had a few chances as of late to gain a game or two on the Twins, and they failed to capitalize on it...because they lost bad games to a bad team.

Edited August 9, 2010 by pittshoganerkoff

[Greg Hibbard]

Literally every great team, and every world series winning team, with the exception of a very small handful, has 10-15 or so "bad" losses a year.

 

This year:

 

1) Texas lost 4 at home vs. Baltimore just before the break. They lost 5 of 6 in their season series with Toronto, who is a decent team, but not THAT good. They just went 4-5 on a west coast road trip to the three worst AL west teams. In a perfect world, they would have probably went 12-7 in those nineteen games, and instead they went 5-14.

 

2) The yanks lose 2 of 3 at home vs. Seattle, and go just 8-7 in Interleague. Toronto has also given them fits, as they've won just 4 of 9 games against them. You'd expect them to probably go 17-10 over those 27 games, and they went 13-14.

 

3) Tampa went 7-11 in interleague.

 

4) The Twins were 8-10 in interleague.

 

I know we've had a lot of "bad" losses early in the season (probably 6-8 games we should have won) but that doesn't mean we can't lose ANY games we're not supposed to win.

 

If you go by the team-by-team grid, I'd say we were "supposed" to be 1 game better vs baltimore so far, 4 games better vs. cleveland, 1 game better vs. tb, 2 games better vs. min, 1 game better vs. oakland, 1 game better vs. toronto. That's a total of 10 games. Conversely, we beat Seattle 9 out of 10, and went 15-3 in interleague, which in my opinion made up for some of that.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Greg Hibbard

[Milkman delivers]

I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

In fact, I don't know that I have ever disagreed with a series of posts more so than these that you've been posting over the course of the last week.

 

If I wanted to cheer on a team this way, I would wear a royal blue cap with a red "C" on it.

 

You and I don't agree too often, but it's beautiful when we do.

[Greg Hibbard]

I think greg775 chose a poor way of wording that.

 

Because of the unusual circumstances surrounding this particular season, with the expectations not being high and the relatively poor start, unlike many other years (2001, 2003, 2004, 2006 come to mind) this second half has engendered a much more patient sentiment towards the team from me than in years past.

 

Every late-season loss in 2003 and 2006 in particular was like nails on a chalkboard for me. This season, I was relatively exasperated until about June 15th, with no clue where we would even start organizationally to compete for 2011, and to suddenly feel like we have a legit shot at the division and maybe further, within just 20 days, really IS textbook schizophrenia.

[elrockinMT]

Let's just win this thing

[MexSoxFan#1]

I don't think we are anymore negative than other MLB forums, I've been to a few and they have about the same amount

of negativity on their posts (Twins and Tigers for example).

 

I read many threads where they swear their manager is a moron and their GM is an imbecile and their players are the worst etc,...

 

I kind of feel that its more natural to be pessimistic about your team's chances than optimistic unless you are a complete homer who believes your team can't do no wrong, I mean take a look at the Yankees, they've won 26 or 27 WS (too lazy to look it up), they are far and away the most succesful team and yet you'll still see them b****ing and moaning about their chances.

 

Anyways, I actually find it amusing and interesting rather than reading threads and posts of just how awesome the White Sox are...well, that's my two cents worth.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think we are anymore negative than other MLB forums, I've been to a few and they have about the same amount

of negativity on their posts (Twins and Tigers for example).

 

I read many threads where they swear their manager is a moron and their GM is an imbecile and their players are the worst etc,...

 

I kind of feel that its more natural to be pessimistic about your team's chances than optimistic unless you are a complete homer who believes your team can't do no wrong, I mean take a look at the Yankees, they've won 26 or 27 WS (too lazy to look it up), they are far and away the most succesful team and yet you'll still see them b****ing and moaning about their chances.

Anyways, I actually find it amusing and interesting rather than reading threads and posts of just how awesome the White Sox are...well, that's my two cents worth.

 

I'll never understand why it has to be one or the other. You can be a fan of the team, and involved in following them without needing to be extreme about it. Freaking out about everything doesn't make you more of a fan than the people who see only the positives, or vice versa. It almost gets to be a contest amongst the fans of each team to see who can out D-bag each other over who is more right, the optimists or pessimists. You can enjoy the game and the team, without needing to be an absolute homer or only expecting the worst. Being the loudest person doesn't mean anything.