The Official Run Into Outs Thread

[Quin]

[Paint it Black]

THIS.

 

I never understood why people love giving up outs, especially with hitters at the top of the order.

[Quin]

THIS.

 

I never understood why people love giving up outs, especially with hitters at the top of the order.

 

Because it's so GRINDY.

 

Now theres not even that whole "Well, they're in first place with Ozzie Ball" argument." f***.

[ThunderBolt]

As a Weaver Ball guy, this team makes me want to put my head through the wall. Ozzie manages against every sabermetric principle in the book. He has no idea how to optimize the potential offensive output of the group of guys he wanted.

[Quin]

As a Weaver Ball guy, this team makes me want to put my head through the wall. Ozzie manages against every sabermetric principle in the book. He has no idea how to optimize the potential offensive output of the group of guys he wanted.

 

I get it that saber isn't the end all be all way to baseball, but the fact that Ozzie goes out of his way to ignore it is infuriating.

[striker]

As a Weaver Ball guy, this team makes me want to put my head through the wall. Ozzie manages against every sabermetric principle in the book. He has no idea how to optimize the potential offensive output of the group of guys he wanted.

Ozzie probably has math skills at a 3rd grade level so don't count on him using sabermetrics.

[chw42]

Ozzie probably has math skills at a 3rd grade level so don't count on him using sabermetrics.

 

I wouldn't be surprised.

 

I think I'm more pissed off that he always sac bunts with Pierre on first. Like if the game is close and Pierre is on first, he'll always try to bunt him over.

 

Yet, in almost every other situation, Pierre is always free to steal.

 

 

[lostfan]

I'm not a "fire Ozzie" guy but I literally get angry when the Sox get a fast guy on to lead off the inning (Pierre, Rios, etc.) and a good contact hitter with power comes up (Ramirez, Beckham) and Ozzie calls for a bunt. There's no reason to do that at all. Sure you have no guarantees with a steal attempt but at least try a hit and run... something.

[ThunderBolt]

I get it that saber isn't the end all be all way to baseball, but the fact that Ozzie goes out of his way to ignore it is infuriating.

Exactly, I’ve never claimed that he has to be an expert or even a believer. But surely someone has said to him, “Hey, Ozzie. Did you know that if a stolen bass percentage is below 75% you’re wasting a s*** load of outs?” Or hey, “how about it cuts your chances of scoring a run into thirds if you bunt like you do?” Or, “Hey Ozzie. Take a look at these matchups! Do you see how Markakis hits against lefties? Maybe Sale isn’t the best idea?” Or, “ hey Ozzie. Andrew Jones and Mark Kotsay suck. Seriously, Kotsay is one of the worst players in all of baseball. ”

 

 

[chw42]

Exactly, I’ve never claimed that he has to be an expert or even a believer. But surely someone has said to him, “Hey, Ozzie. Did you know that if a stolen bass percentage is below 75% you’re wasting a s*** load of outs?” Or hey, “how about it cuts your chances of scoring a run into thirds if you bunt like you do?” Or, “Hey Ozzie. Take a look at these matchups! Do you see how Markakis hits against lefties? Maybe Sale isn’t the best idea?” Or, “ hey Ozzie. Andrew Jones and Mark Kotsay suck. Seriously, Kotsay is one of the worst players in all of baseball. ”

 

Ozzie is way too full of himself to listen to anybody else.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Between the bunts and his decision to PH for Viciedo which quickly resulted in a pitcher with no control or confidence to be immediately yanked from the game, I was left shaking my head after this one. I can't wait until that idiot is no longer on our bench.

[klaus kinski]

We rely on a 43 year old too much-

[lostfan]

We rely on a 43 year old too much-

I've got nothing bad to say about that 43 year old this year though.

[Quin]

Is there any rule against hiring an assistant manager? I say this, because Cora will always be bench coach as long as Ozzie is here.

[LittleHurt05]

We rely on a 43 year old too much-

 

Meh. He's hitting .293, has done a great job as a #2 hitter, and still plays solid defense. Not to mention, I'm sure he's been a great mentor to the SS of the future. Vizquel has turned out to be one of the least of our worries. He only started playing everyday when Teahen got hurt anyway.

[maggsmaggs]

The probabilities show bunting is an awful decision unless you have a pitcher at-bat or a terrible match-up with a hitter. Granted, when you have a runner on second base, no outs and the likes of Andruw Jones pulling the ball, I'd still rather attempt the bunt.

[RockRaines]

Between the bunts and his decision to PH for Viciedo which quickly resulted in a pitcher with no control or confidence to be immediately yanked from the game, I was left shaking my head after this one. I can't wait until that idiot is no longer on our bench.

LOL.

 

You mean he took out Viciedo who hadnt come even close to a pitch the last two at bats and put in one of our best clutch hitters this season? It was actually a very good move IMO.

 

And the bunts were good as well considering our offense this series, all it takes it a hit by the middle of the order, and they didnt come through. Keep second guessing the team when they lose, it makes it funnier when you guys cheer on these moves when they win.

[RockRaines]

I wouldn't be surprised.

 

I think I'm more pissed off that he always sac bunts with Pierre on first. Like if the game is close and Pierre is on first, he'll always try to bunt him over.

 

Yet, in almost every other situation, Pierre is always free to steal.

Because if Pierre gets caught stealing you would come on here and say how stupid he is for running into outs. Getting your fastest player into scoring position at 2nd base in a tie game with the middle of the order coming up with TWO chances to get a hit and score the guy is frankly an ideal situation. Of course since we didnt win the game, its becomes alot easier to try and find something to criticize.

 

Where are all of the posts about how Putz should be DFA'd?

[Balta1701]

You mean he took out Viciedo who hadnt come even close to a pitch the last two at bats and put in one of our best clutch hitters this season? It was actually a very good move IMO.

 

And the bunts were good as well considering our offense this series, all it takes it a hit by the middle of the order, and they didnt come through. Keep second guessing the team when they lose, it makes it funnier when you guys cheer on these moves when they win.

Taking out Viciedo was the right move.

 

Alexei bunting with Pierre on 1b late in the game with Weiters behind the plate is a terrible move.

 

Even poorly planned plays will have some probability of still working, bragging when they do is the same as thinking "hey, i won on this slot machine, I'm going to triple my bet next game!"

[BigSqwert]

Where are all of the posts about how Putz should be DFA'd?

Why should he be DFA'd? His season numbers are fantastic as opposed to what Jenks and Kotsay have provided.

[Balta1701]

Because if Pierre gets caught stealing you would come on here and say how stupid he is for running into outs.

If Pierre were CS, I'd be infuriated because of how we're paying him and we traded for him to be a base stealer and he's unable to steal bases in a situation that cries out for a stolen base.

[mmmmmbeeer]

LOL.

 

You mean he took out Viciedo who hadnt come even close to a pitch the last two at bats and put in one of our best clutch hitters this season? It was actually a very good move IMO.

 

And the bunts were good as well considering our offense this series, all it takes it a hit by the middle of the order, and they didnt come through. Keep second guessing the team when they lose, it makes it funnier when you guys cheer on these moves when they win.

 

Simon was absolutely shaken....his mannerisms, his control, everything about his demeanor on the mound was screaming "take me the f*** out of this game, Buck". Did you see how quickly Showalter ran out to the mound to get Simon? He was ecstatic that Ozzie made the decision for him. I'm fine with Vizquel PH but not when doing so forces a move that is a positive for the other team.

 

And the bunts, you spend enough time on this board to know that this has been a sore subject for several seasons and, imo, the argument is much stronger this season when you have the league leader in SB being sacrificed to 2nd base. If he steals 2nd it gives you one more opportunity for the middle of the order to get that hit you were referring to and, ya know, "considering the offense this series", we shouldn't be giving away outs.

 

[Balta1701]

I may as well also note that I have zero problems with AJ Pierzynski bunting in the 9th inning even though he had a more favorable matchup. Quentin was on 1st, he wasn't stealing 2nd, AJ has been awful this year with the bats, and people behind him would be more likely to drive in a run with 1 hit than we would be to get a hit out of AJ.

[RockRaines]

Taking out Viciedo was the right move.

 

Alexei bunting with Pierre on 1b late in the game with Weiters behind the plate is a terrible move.

 

Even poorly planned plays will have some probability of still working, bragging when they do is the same as thinking "hey, i won on this slot machine, I'm going to triple my bet next game!"

It has nothing to do with who is behind the plate. Stolen bases were extremely hard to come by this series, especially since the Baltimore grounds crew turned the area around 1st base into a mud pit. I would rather take the sure thing and give my #3 and #4 hitters chances to hit a single and drive in a run.

 

If that was the 7th game in the WS and you NEEDED a runner in scoring position no matter what, you definitely bunt the guy over there, and thats why the Sox did it that night. It was the correct move.

[RockRaines]

Simon was absolutely shaken....his mannerisms, his control, everything about his demeanor on the mound was screaming "take me the f*** out of this game, Buck". Did you see how quickly Showalter ran out to the mound to get Simon? He was ecstatic that Ozzie made the decision for him. I'm fine with Vizquel PH but not when doing so forces a move that is a positive for the other team.

 

And the bunts, you spend enough time on this board to know that this has been a sore subject for several seasons and, imo, the argument is much stronger this season when you have the league leader in SB being sacrificed to 2nd base. If he steals 2nd it gives you one more opportunity for the middle of the order to get that hit you were referring to and, ya know, "considering the offense this series", we shouldn't be giving away outs.

Simon wasnt shaken enough that he couldnt throw 3 fastballs up to Viciedo which would have him screwing himself down into the dirt. IN that situation you want a hitter up that give you the best chance to win the game regardless of the other team's pitching decision. Vicedo wasnt that guy, especially last night. I could have struck Dayan out last night.