The Official Run Into Outs Thread

[SoxAce]

The last two years, Rios stole 56 bases and was caught 13 times. This year, he'd matched that total of caught stealing and only has 24 steals.

 

I keep telling people don't get me started on Ozzie's base running efficiency/tactics. He's got more speed than in years past.. and he still isn't using guys right. (whether that is a specific pitch, a specific count, hit and run or lack there of, etc... and on running counts, he doesn't run with the guys) If Pierre wasn't very good at sliding when he steals avoiding tags, that CS would be much worse.

[ThunderBolt]

Hard to say it's one of the biggest disasters based on what our final record is likely to be. Based on our record vs AL teams though, it does seems like Ozzieball is not the way to go.

When you think about how close this division is going to be and couple that with how many games this strategy is costing us, it's an unparalleled exercise in offensive inefficiency. We could lose the damn division because of this. That's as big a disaster as i can think of.

[Quin]

When you think about how close this division is going to be and couple that with how many games this strategy is costing us, it's an unparalleled exercise in offensive inefficiency. We could lose the damn division because of this. That's as big a disaster as i can think of.

 

Who would have thought two months ago...*silently killed*

 

But wait! We're in first place! *silently killed*

[Eminor3rd]

Ozzie Ball is shaping up to be one of the most disastrous offensive experiments in recent memory. At least the basecloggers are gone . It's like half of our roster is being used to kill the other half of the rosters rallies.

 

Thank you, sir, for providing me with my first signature.

[whitesoxfan101]

Hard to say it's one of the biggest disasters based on what our final record is likely to be. Based on our record vs AL teams though, it does seems like Ozzieball is not the way to go.

 

That's because it's not. We're an AL team that plays in a bandbox, so the last thing in the world we can do is give away outs. It's especially egregious this year since our offense isn't very good, we're more than capable of making outs ourselves, let alone giving them away.

[BigSqwert]

According to baseball reference we have 56 caught stealing, 16 picked off, 3 picked off caught stealing, and 39 outs on base for a total of 114 outs given away.

 

There's your rationale for getting rid of Ozzie ball.

Edited August 11, 2010 by BigSqwert

[whitesoxfan101]

According to baseball reference we have 56 caught stealing, 16 picked off, 3 picked off caught stealing, and 39 outs on base for a total of 114 outs given away.

 

There's your rationale for getting rid of Ozzie ball.

 

That's 4 full games, plus 2 innings (38 total) for those scoring at home and bad at math. And we still have almost 50 games left.

Edited August 11, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Balta1701]

That number is useless without context. How does it compare to what other teams have given up?

[BigSqwert]

That number is useless without context. How does it compare to what other teams have given up?

 

The next closest for CS is 39. Not sure about the others.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

The next closest for CS is 39. Not sure about the others.

 

Yeah, so we've given away just shy of 6 innings more than any other team in baseball just on caught stealings. Pretty staggering.

[BigSqwert]

How do I run a query on that site to rank all teams for total outs given up? I'd be more than happy to do it.

[Balta1701]

There are obvious complications to that as well...AJ getting caught stealing in a game may be a bad thing, but if the next guy coming up is hitting .160, then it might hurt more or less than CS at other times.

 

I wonder how many sacrifice bunt outs we've given up

[whitesoxfan101]

There are obvious complications to that as well...AJ getting caught stealing in a game may be a bad thing, but if the next guy coming up is hitting .160, then it might hurt more or less than CS at other times.

 

I wonder how many sacrifice bunt outs we've given up

 

That was going to be my next question, our sac bunt total and where it ranks.

[BigSqwert]

There are obvious complications to that as well...AJ getting caught stealing in a game may be a bad thing, but if the next guy coming up is hitting .160, then it might hurt more or less than CS at other times.

 

I wonder how many sacrifice bunt outs we've given up

 

34 successful sac bunts out of 43 tries.

[Balta1701]

34 successful sac bunts out of 43 tries.

So...our sacrifice bunt %age is 79%.

 

I'm going to remember that the next time I'm told that Juan Pierre has only a 75% shot at successfully stealing that base and the bunt is a sure thing.

[whitesoxfan101]

So...our sacrifice bunt %age is 79%.

 

I'm going to remember that the next time I'm told that Juan Pierre has only a 75% shot at successfully stealing that base and the bunt is a sure thing.

 

Great point, actually. Btw, do we know where 34 sac bunts (and 43 attempts for that matter) ranks in baseball?

[BigSqwert]

We have the most outs given up in MLB...

 

Tm	CS	PO	PCS	OOB	
CHW	56	16	3	39	114
LAD	38	17	8	43	106
TEX	36	21	8	41	106
KCR	36	16	8	45	105
LAA	40	15	5	45	105
TBR	36	24	6	38	104
CIN	31	17	6	48	102
SEA	28	19	7	45	99
SDP	36	20	8	34	98
STL	31	9	2	48	90
ARI	30	12	8	39	89
NYM	29	14	4	42	89
PIT	26	16	6	41	89
WSN	32	19	6	32	89
OAK	25	14	4	43	86
LgAvg	27	14	5	38	84
BAL	26	17	11	29	83
MIN	20	17	5	39	81
CLE	20	15	6	37	78
COL	30	10	3	35	78
SFG	26	5	3	43	77
CHC	21	12	3	38	74
DET	20	13	4	36	73
NYY	19	13	5	35	72
FLA	18	14	4	31	67
MIL	19	8	3	37	67
ATL	23	13	5	22	63
HOU	25	10	3	24	62
TOR	13	9	5	31	58
PHI	14	6	2	35	57
BOS	13	2	0	31	46

Edited August 11, 2010 by BigSqwert

[BigSqwert]

CS = Caught stealing

PO = Picked off

PCS = Picked off caught stealing

OOB = Outs on base (stretching singe into double, doubled off, etc)

[LittleHurt05]

We have the most outs given up in MLB...

 

Tm	CS	PO	PCS	OOB	
CHW	56	16	3	39	114
LAD	38	17	8	43	106
TEX	36	21	8	41	106
KCR	36	16	8	45	105
LAA	40	15	5	45	105
TBR	36	24	6	38	104
CIN	31	17	6	48	102
SEA	28	19	7	45	99
SDP	36	20	8	34	98
STL	31	9	2	48	90
ARI	30	12	8	39	89
NYM	29	14	4	42	89
PIT	26	16	6	41	89
WSN	32	19	6	32	89
OAK	25	14	4	43	86
LgAvg	27	14	5	38	84
BAL	26	17	11	29	83
MIN	20	17	5	39	81
CLE	20	15	6	37	78
COL	30	10	3	35	78
SFG	26	5	3	43	77
CHC	21	12	3	38	74
DET	20	13	4	36	73
NYY	19	13	5	35	72
FLA	18	14	4	31	67
MIL	19	8	3	37	67
ATL	23	13	5	22	63
HOU	25	10	3	24	62
TOR	13	9	5	31	58
PHI	14	6	2	35	57
BOS	13	2	0	31	46

 

The top two scoring teams in the league are Boston (least outs given up) & the Yankees (8th least)

 

But then the Rays, 3rd in scoring, have given up the 6th most outs. The 5th & 6th highest scoring teams are the Reds (7th most outs given) & Rangers (3rd most).

 

 

[caulfield12]

Well, the one thing that can't measure is how many pitchers' heads we got into, how many walks, how many grooved fastballs, errors by the catcher or middle infielders caused by putting pressure on the other team...

 

Obviously in years past, we wouldn't have those huge caught stealing numbers...but we still made plenty of outs on the basepaths in 2009 without being anything resembling a fast or athletically-inclined team.

 

At least this year, we can go first to third most of the time and I do feel that the aggressiveness has won more games than it has lost us.

 

I also concur about being annoyed with giving up outs with Pierre on base and bunting him over when he's supposedly one of the top basestealers in the majors.

Edited August 11, 2010 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

That number is useless without context. How does it compare to what other teams have given up?

 

Its also useless without a runs created stat to directly correlate the efficiencies of both styles.

[chw42]

So...our sacrifice bunt %age is 79%.

 

I'm going to remember that the next time I'm told that Juan Pierre has only a 75% shot at successfully stealing that base and the bunt is a sure thing.

 

Somebody needs to tell this to Rongey...

[BigSqwert]

Its also useless without a runs created stat to directly correlate the efficiencies of both styles.

I don't even a runs created stat is necessary. The eyeball test works just fine for me. April and May virtually no offense at all...among the bottom in stats in all of baseball. Middle of the pack stats from June through now.

[LittleHurt05]

Its also useless without a runs created stat to directly correlate the efficiencies of both styles.

 

Exactly. How many times has Rios been able to knock Pierre in with a single because Pierre stole 2nd? I'm not saying the White Sox don't need to do a better job on the basepaths, but that agressiveness has directly led to runs scored, so that needs to be taken into account to. Look at Tampa, bottom 5 battting average, but 3rd in runs scored.

[qwerty]

These lineup calculators are pretty accurate. The usual Ozzie lineup averages 4.57 runs in that calculator. This team averages 4.57 runs...

 

You don't say...

 

Of course this was not responded to. Coincidences are a damn pain in the ass.