What moves have come back to bite Kenny?

[Soxbadger]

I disagree on Allen. I think he will be at best an average 1b, but most likely below average.

 

You just are not going to get a lot of value for a 1b who doesnt project to be an impact bat. Its just to easy to take players from other positions and put them there.

 

That is probably why Kenny couldnt do better with Allen.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've soured on KW considerably the last couple years, as I don't think his overall philosophy of building teams will ever be conducive to year in and year out success. Yeah, compared to other GMs of White Sox past, he looks like a genius. But take '05 away, and I know this is virtually impossible, there's just not much to get loud about. And it looks even less impressive when you consider we're not in the AL east, where we have to deal with mega giants every year. But even I will admit that Kenny has done a fabulous job, not so much recently, but during a 4 year stretch from I'd say '04 to '08 in plucking talent from other organizations. Now only if we could ever draft and develop our own.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Jordan4life

[LittleHurt05]

Trading Brian Anderson for Mark Kotsay, and then resigning him

[hammerhead johnson]

Now only if we could ever draft and develop our own.

 

Are you not liking these draft picks:

 

Kenny Williams Jr.

Tyler Williams

Ozney Guillen

Harold Baines Jr.

 

LOL at naming your kid Tyler. This guy needs to watch some George Carlin DVDs or something.

[BigSqwert]

Are you not liking these draft picks:

 

Kenny Williams Jr.

Tyler Williams

Ozney Guillen

Harold Baines Jr.

 

LOL at naming your kid Tyler. This guy needs to watch some George Carlin DVDs or something.

[southsider2k5]

Are you not liking these draft picks:

 

Kenny Williams Jr.

Tyler Williams

Ozney Guillen

Harold Baines Jr.

 

LOL at naming your kid Tyler. This guy needs to watch some George Carlin DVDs or something.

 

Exactly one of those guys was drafted earlier enough to matter.

[hammerhead johnson]

Exactly one of those guys was drafted earlier enough to matter.

 

True, but it's still funny.

[iamshack]

Exactly one of those guys was drafted earlier enough to matter.

And every team does this. Every manager and GM that has a kid that plays baseball gets drafted as a favor from the team his (or even her) father works for.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

And every team does this. Every manager and GM that has a kid that plays baseball gets drafted as a favor from the team his (or even her) father works for.

MLB needs to be audited. I can do it for a small fee.

[RockRaines]

I've soured on KW considerably the last couple years, as I don't think his overall philosophy of building teams will ever be conducive to year in and year out success. Yeah, compared to other GMs of White Sox past, he looks like a genius. But take '05 away, and I know this is virtually impossible, there's just not much to get loud about. And it looks even less impressive when you consider we're not in the AL east, where we have to deal with mega giants every year. But even I will admit that Kenny has done a fabulous job, not so much recently, but during a 4 year stretch from I'd say '04 to '08 in plucking talent from other organizations. Now only if we could ever draft and develop our own.

Chris Sale

Gordon Beckham

Jared Mitchell

 

 

Lesser extent Jordan Danks, David Holmberg, Dan Hudson, Chris Carter, John Ely etc.

 

Few examples of the excellent drafting that has come about with KW changing his drafting philosophy. Looked at that last 3 first round picks we made. They are fantastic IMO.

[RockRaines]

The Peavy trade has to be on this list, and I'll own that I was wrong in supporting it.

Already? Disagree. I would make that deal again right now if I could even with Peavy on the DL.

[The Ginger Kid]

Bmac for Danks. I miss Bmac. What has Danks done?

[iamshack]

I've soured on KW considerably the last couple years, as I don't think his overall philosophy of building teams will ever be conducive to year in and year out success. Yeah, compared to other GMs of White Sox past, he looks like a genius. But take '05 away, and I know this is virtually impossible, there's just not much to get loud about. And it looks even less impressive when you consider we're not in the AL east, where we have to deal with mega giants every year. But even I will admit that Kenny has done a fabulous job, not so much recently, but during a 4 year stretch from I'd say '04 to '08 in plucking talent from other organizations. Now only if we could ever draft and develop our own.

J4L, I don't want to get into this pissing match all over again, but I'm still really waiting for you to address the opportunity costs issue. None of the proponents of the "develop from within" strategy seem to want to address this.

 

Do you realize what an advantage it is to be able to sign players at a relatively low cost that you have a very good idea of what kind of production you are going to get?

 

Do you realize how frustrating and expensive it can be to try and develop and then ultimately live through the growing pains with young prospects?

 

I've been asking this of the guys who complain the loudest about our lack of developing more of our draft choices, and no one seems to want to address it. There is a reason that you can't really point to any sustained success out of these "building philosophy" teams, other than perhaps the Twins, who have yet to win a playoff series under this philosophy - the odds of all these young players clicking together is extremely slim. By the time you can sort out the busts from the studs, the flash in the pan guys from the consistent performers, they reach arbitration and FA and get very expensive very fast.

 

I really am a proponent of drafting over slot, developing at the minor league level, and then trading all but who your scouts believe are your best few prospects. With the market undervaluing veteran performance and overvaluing prospects because of cost certainty, I just think there is a lot to be said for drafting high-ceiling players that fall because of signability concerns, short development, and then trading for veteran performance.

 

We really are pretty close to this model with the exception of JR being Selig's pal and our refusal to pay over slot money.

[GREEDY]

Already? Disagree. I would make that deal again right now if I could even with Peavy on the DL.

 

You are flat out nuts....

 

Peavy is only owed $50,000,000!!!!!!

 

Let me put it this way so even the most baseball stupid can understand:

There isn't a team in baseball that would take Peavy for a bag of balls, even if you packaged him with Gordon Beckham

 

Factor in that Richard appears to be a bona fide major league baseball player under team control for several years, and that makes your post the worst I have seen on this message board. EVER.

 

I love KW but saying that the Peavy deal is currently a good deal is blind ignorance.

 

[Balta1701]

Let me put it this way so even the most baseball stupid can understand:

There isn't a team in baseball that would take Peavy for a bag of balls, even if you packaged him with Gordon Beckham

Wha?

 

If I was any team that could remotely find a way to squeeze in that salary, I'd jump at that.

[GREEDY]

Wha?

 

If I was any team that could remotely find a way to squeeze in that salary, I'd jump at that.

 

Beckham might have been an over-exaggeration but how can someone say they would still make the deal today???? 50 million for at the most two years of Peavy post surgery???? And I am not certain that someone would give that 50mil for Gordon....

[SoxFan562004]

Beckham might have been an over-exaggeration but how can someone say they would still make the deal today???? 50 million for at the most two years of Peavy post surgery???? And I am not certain that someone would give that 50mil for Gordon....

Did the Sox have to pick up the 2013 option when they traded for him? Because after this year it's 16 and 17 with a 3rd year or a 4m buyout. Not that 37m is a whole lot better, but better than 50+

[Balta1701]

Beckham might have been an over-exaggeration but how can someone say they would still make the deal today???? 50 million for at the most two years of Peavy post surgery???? And I am not certain that someone would give that 50mil for Gordon....

Let me put it this way...if I were the Tigers, and I had $60 million coming off the books this offseason, and I had the ability to get Peavy for basically assuming his contract...even though he struggled this year, I would very much lean towards doing so.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It seems like Kenny's small deals are always the best deals.

 

Borchard for Thornton

McCarthy for Danks

Carter for Quentin

 

 

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Also, here is a list of all the trade Kenny has made up until the 2009 season.....

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/kenny-williams.html

[Sox72]

Let me put it this way...if I were the Tigers, and I had $60 million coming off the books this offseason, and I had the ability to get Peavy for basically assuming his contract...even though he struggled this year, I would very much lean towards doing so.

 

I wouldn't touch him for that much money.

[southsider2k5]

It seems like Kenny's small deals are always the best deals.

 

Borchard for Thornton

McCarthy for Danks

Carter for Quentin

 

I could even argue the last one, but there is no way that the Bmac deal was a small one. Brandon was our top prospect, and was supposed to be an anchor of our rotation for years.

[hammerhead johnson]

Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez.

[RockRaines]

You are flat out nuts....

 

Peavy is only owed $50,000,000!!!!!!

 

Let me put it this way so even the most baseball stupid can understand:

There isn't a team in baseball that would take Peavy for a bag of balls, even if you packaged him with Gordon Beckham

 

Factor in that Richard appears to be a bona fide major league baseball player under team control for several years, and that makes your post the worst I have seen on this message board. EVER.

 

I love KW but saying that the Peavy deal is currently a good deal is blind ignorance.

Richard hasnt proven s*** and none of the other players have either. Peavy is a bona fide top of the rotation starter and at least 75 percent of the teams in the league would take him from us with no questions asked.

 

Here's a translation for the baseball retarded: Peavy good.

 

 

And I probably only have to scour YOUR posts to find many more worse than mine, and thats probably only this summer.

Edited August 12, 2010 by RockRaines

[GREEDY]

Peavy is a bona fide top of the rotation starter and at least 75 percent of the teams in the league would take him from us with no questions asked.

 

No chance.

 

I guarantee he has recently passed waivers.