What is it that the Twins do?

[greg775]

They beat up on their division. Plain and simple, they also play lights out at home. They're a very average road team.

 

They are built for the AL Central which is why they rarely make it out of the first round. They play the Yankees like the Sox play the Twins, scared.

 

I would agree 100 percent.

You described the Twins. Thome may help them not fear NY.

[witesoxfan]

I would agree 100 percent.

You described the Twins. Thome may help them not fear NY.

 

I don't think it's a matter of fear, it's simply a matter of the Yankees being a superior team to the Twins.

[BigSqwert]

The Twins do not do things like have 70 caught stealing at this point in the season.

[GoSox05]

Since 2000 The Twins are 6-18 in the playoffs. We are 12-7 with a championship.

 

[LittleHurt05]

The Twins do not do things like have 70 caught stealing at this point in the season.

 

Nor do they have 136 stolen bases at this point in the season.

[BigSqwert]

Nor do they have 136 stolen bases at this point in the season.

136 SBs and 195 outs given up equals negative 59.

[LittleHurt05]

136 SBs and 195 outs given up equals negative 59.

 

57 SBs and 137 outs given up equals negative 80 for the Twins

[BigSqwert]

57 SBs and 137 outs given up equals negative 80 for the Twins

2 + 2 = jello

[Balta1701]

2 + 2 = jello

He does have a point BS...simply adding/subtracting isn't going to process that data very well.

[BigSqwert]

He does have a point BS...simply adding/subtracting isn't going to process that data very well.

Yeah I understand that but for a team with a low OBP as ours it's pretty stupid to give up 195 outs on the base paths, no matter how many steals we have.

Edited September 14, 2010 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

Yeah I understand that but for a team with a low OBP as ours it's pretty stupid to give up 195 outs on the base paths, no matter how many steals we have.

We're #7 in the AL with a team .332 OBP. That's decidedly middle of the pack; Detroit, Texas, Tampa Bay and Boston are ahead of us and are all under .340, Minnesota's #2 at .344.

 

Your response begs the question...what OBP level is necessary in order to make giving up that many outs ok?

 

(My answer is that none are, and some of ozzie's worst offenses are forcing SB attempts when there's no obvious surprise to them and bunting when a stolen base would actually be ideal).

[Leonard Zelig]

We're #7 in the AL with a team .332 OBP. That's decidedly middle of the pack; Detroit, Texas, Tampa Bay and Boston are ahead of us and are all under .340, Minnesota's #2 at .344.

 

Worth noting as well is that the White Sox are #2 in the AL in Sacrifice bunts (behind Texas) while the Twins are #8 and well into the back part of the league. Getting the bunt down has less to do with this than any of your other points.

[Balta1701]

Since Sacrifice bunts don't count as at-bats...I'm not quite certain what you're trying to say there.

[Cali]

Since 2000 The Twins are 6-18 in the playoffs. We are 12-7 with a championship.

 

What a wonderful stat.

[Leonard Zelig]

Since Sacrifice bunts don't count as at-bats...I'm not quite certain what you're trying to say there.

 

Just stood out to me how you manipulated the numbers to show your point. In one post you call 7th middle of the pack and in the other you say 8th is well into the back part of the league, when really they are equidistant from the median.

[Balta1701]

Just stood out to me how you manipulated the numbers to show your point. In one post you call 7th middle of the pack and in the other you say 8th is well into the back part of the league, when really they are equidistant from the median.

Ah, I see what you're saying...let me explain why the phrasing is different. In OBP...there is a large packing of teams with team OBP between .330 and .340. 6 teams fall in that range. 2 teams are notably higher; the Yankees kill everyone and the Twins are at .344. No other team is above .323...therefore, the White Sox fall in the cluster that isn't really distinguished from each other; Boston's OBP of .338 is above the Sox at .332...but the total difference there is a fairly small number of baserunners (22 baserunners over the same number of at bats).

 

On the other hand, in Sacrifice bunts...there are 4 teams that are in the 40's, including the Sox, 7 team's in the 30's, 1 team with 29, and then 2 teams that are anomalously low. The Sox are 2nd, the Twins are in the middle of the pack in the 30's.

 

I think the raw values there provides a useful discriminant as there is different types of clustering in the case of the 2 stats.

[Leonard Zelig]

Ah, I see what you're saying...let me explain why the phrasing is different. In OBP...there is a large packing of teams with team OBP between .330 and .340. 6 teams fall in that range. 2 teams are notably higher; the Yankees kill everyone and the Twins are at .344. No other team is above .323...therefore, the White Sox fall in the cluster that isn't really distinguished from each other; Boston's OBP of .338 is above the Sox at .332...but the total difference there is a fairly small number of baserunners (22 baserunners over the same number of at bats).

 

On the other hand, in Sacrifice bunts...there are 4 teams that are in the 40's, including the Sox, 7 team's in the 30's, 1 team with 29, and then 2 teams that are anomalously low. The Sox are 2nd, the Twins are in the middle of the pack in the 30's.

 

I think the raw values there provides a useful discriminant as there is different types of clustering in the case of the 2 stats.

 

Sorry man, I wasn't trying to make an issue out of it, it just stood out to me because I read them within a few minutes of each other. Good job of explaining yourself tho.

[jphat007]

They have a bunch of kids that come up and put up mind boggling numbers for 3/4 of a year and then fade into obscurity. It's really amazing. Valencia this year, Casilla another year, Trevor Plouffe, Lew Ford, etc etc

[Milkman delivers]

They have a bunch of kids that come up and put up mind boggling numbers for 3/4 of a year and then fade into obscurity. It's really amazing. Valencia this year, Casilla another year, Trevor Plouffe, Lew Ford, etc etc

 

I don't think I've ever even heard that name.

[Balta1701]

The NY Times on what it is the Twins do.

Gardenhire said he always knew Anderson would be a pitching coach. He noticed how teammates sought him out for advice — pitchers asking what to throw, hitters asking what to look for at the plate. Anderson noticed the details, and Gardenhire never forgot.

 

Since 2002, Gardenhire and Anderson have formed one of the most effective manager-coach duos in baseball, and this year, they are closing in on their sixth American League Central title with the Twins. In nine years on the job, Anderson has instilled a philosophy throughout the organization: walks are unacceptable.

 

“We don’t draft guys that throw superhard but walk guys,” said Kevin Slowey, a right-hander who ranks third in the American League in fewest walks per nine innings. “Short of Liriano, we don’t have anybody that’s going to strike out 200 guys a year. We just have a lot of guys that throw a lot of strikes. There’s positive reinforcement that strikes are what win games, not necessarily strikeouts.”

 

 

...

With Rick Knapp, the Twins’ former minor league pitching coordinator who now coaches for the Detroit Tigers, Anderson stressed strike-throwing over pure stuff. Catchers throughout the system were taught to set their targets over the middle, not on the corners. Nibbling at the strike zone edges was not tolerated.

 

“He’s smart enough to know everybody’s going to have natural movement on the baseball,” said the left-hander Brian Duensing, who is 9-2 with a 2.07 E.R.A. this season. “So if you can set up down the middle and throw it to the catcher, it’s got to move somehow to get there. Very rarely do you see even a four-seamer that’s just absolutely flat. So his philosophy — the whole philosophy of the minor leagues — is, you walk guys, you’re not going anywhere.”

 

The tradeoff of pitching so aggressively, the Twins acknowledge, is that with more balls in play, they tend to allow more hits. But a ball in play can often be turned into an out. A walk, of course, cannot.

 

It is a misconception that hitters who walk tend to score more often than those who reach with a single. Dave Smith of the Society for American Baseball Research studied every game from 1974 through 2002 and found the difference to be virtually indistinguishable. A leadoff batter who walked scored 39.9 percent of the time, while a leadoff batter who singled scored at a 39.7 percent rate.

 

The Twins’ strategy — which relies heavily on a defense that is usually among baseball’s best — might not work as well in the postseason, where strikeout pitchers seem to make a bigger impact. But it helps them in the A.L. Central standings, year after year, and makes them the envy of their rivals.

[witesoxfan]

White Sox, second half, under Guillen, against Twins

 

 

2004 - 2-7

2005 - 7-6

2006 - 4-8

2007 - 4-2

2008 - 2-6

2009 - 1-8

2010 - 3-10

TOTAL - 23-47, .329 PCT

 

Whatever Ozzie has said or done to motivate the White Sox to beat the Twins late in the year obviously has not worked (except for 1 game in his entire career, and Kansas City deserves more credit for that than the White Sox). They're generally fine against everyone else, but they can't beat the Twins. If they continually fail to beat the Twins, they will continually finish in 2nd place and will continually miss the playoffs.

[Balta1701]

Another long Posnanski piece, this one on Thome.

[Twins01]

As a long time Twins fan and a luker on Soxtalk for the last 2 years I have finally decided to put my foot in the water and discuss some baseball with all of you passionate & knowledgable baseball rubes.

 

 

What do the Twins do?

 

There are two things that the Twins do which sets them apart from the Whitesox and other teams in the Central.

 

1. The organiztion does not change over time. Tom Kelly still advises Gardy and the Front Office. The Front Offce has not changed. It's still the same old guys running the place and luckily they just happen to know what they are doing. There is no turnstyle at the Twins office....hell there isn't even a door.

 

2. They stay extremley patience. They never rush thier players in the farm system. Valencio is just another example of this but you could rattle off 10 other very easily...Span...Cuddyer...Kubel...ect.

 

Sale is a great example of the White Sox looking to slow down this stud. They will start him in the minors or 5th stater next year and they will not press him. White Sox are growing more patience and will benefit from this as time goes on.

 

Thanks for allowing me to post on your great Whitesox board. Hopefully I will not have to post my tears in the first round of the playoffs. Go Twins

[Cali]

If Lirano doesnt win game 1 of the ALDS I think they're in for another first round exit...If he does you can punch a ticket to the ALCS for certain....

[witesoxfan]

If Lirano doesnt win game 1 of the ALDS I think they're in for another first round exit...If he does you can punch a ticket to the ALCS for certain....

 

Game 1 is important, but it's not THAT important.