Thanks for breaking everyone's hearts before the 9th

[witesoxfan]

If the Sox sweep the Twins and somehow end up winning the division this year, they'd be better darlings of baseball than the Twins. Teams generally don't make the playoffs after being 9 games below .500 and 9.5 games back in the standings, and it's pretty significant when it does happen. The Twins were expected to win this division from the onset of the season, and anybody picking someone else was going out on a limb. Pre-season favorites aren't "darlings."

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

At least we will know a lot more after Thursday. If they sweep us, they pretty much are the darlings of baseball this year along with the Rangers.

 

Twins - 5 playoff appearances since 2002 & lost a game 163 in '08

Rangers - 0 playoff appearances since 2000 & bankrupt

 

[jenksycat]

Then you believe Kenny Williams is a better GM than Ryan/Smith, yes?

 

And Ditka's a much better football coach than Marv Levy or Marty Schottenheimer..etc.

 

How many rings do they have with them?

 

How many players from the Santana trade are in the bigs?

 

Did they just trade a top catching prospect for Matt Capps?

 

 

Again, they're not some mythical beast of a team that pulls miracles every year. They're an average team that hasn't been able to compete anywhere outside of the typically s***ty AL central for over a decade.

 

Winning the division is not success to me. Competing in the playoffs is, and they can't.

[BigSqwert]

How many rings do they have with them?

 

How many players from the Santana trade are in the bigs?

 

Did they just trade a top catching prospect for Matt Capps?

 

 

Again, they're not some mythical beast of a team that pulls miracles every year. They're an average team that hasn't been able to compete anywhere outside of the typically s***ty AL central for over a decade.

 

Winning the division is not success to me. Competing in the playoffs is, and they can't.

Then if they're so s***ty why is it so hard for us to beat them out for the division most of the time?

[kitekrazy]

It's hard to determine what's worse. The hate and loathing for all things White Sox or the undying love and admiration for the entire Minnesota Twins organization.

 

Nothing wrong with admiring an organization that tends to do things right because of a limited budget.

 

[witesoxfan]

How many rings do they have with them?

 

0, which is awesome.

 

How many players from the Santana trade are in the bigs?

 

I don't understand how this is relevant, but two. Carlos Gomez is currently playing for the Milwaukee Brewers, and Phillip Humber is playing for the Kansas City Royals. Kevin Mulvey could be pitching for the DBacks too, and is still only 25 (though he doesn't look like he's very good). The Twins obviously dropped the ball on getting a solid return for Santana, but they've made incredible personnel decisions otherwise, and JJ Hardy is still on the Twins, whom they acquired for Carlos Gomez. Teams are prone to making mistakes, even when trading great players. They've apparently gotten over dealing him, and they're doing just fine, considering the Twins have won more divisions without Santana than the Mets have with him.

 

Did they just trade a top catching prospect for Matt Capps?

 

He was the #58 prospect according to BA heading into the season. He was blocked at the MLB level by Joe Mauer, and he put up a line of .241/.280/.345/.625 at AAA Rochester with very little power. His stock was very down.

 

Winning the division is not success to me. Competing in the playoffs is, and they can't.

 

They have been in a position to compete in the playoffs 5 times in the past 8 years, and they have been in competition for the divisional title in 8 of the past 10 years, including this year, which is more than can be said for the Sox. The Sox capitalized in 1 of their 5 playoff appearances in the last 50 years. The Twins have capitalized in 2 of their 10 playoff appearances in the last 50 years.

[kitekrazy]

If the Sox sweep the Twins and somehow end up winning the division this year, they'd be better darlings of baseball than the Twins. Teams generally don't make the playoffs after being 9 games below .500 and 9.5 games back in the standings, and it's pretty significant when it does happen. The Twins were expected to win this division from the onset of the season, and anybody picking someone else was going out on a limb. Pre-season favorites aren't "darlings."

 

It's just as rare for a team to win 25/30.

 

[witesoxfan]

Nothing wrong with admiring an organization that tends to do things right because of a limited budget.

 

Their $97.7 million payroll and $180 mill extension to Mauer this year suggest anything other than a limited budget.

[kitekrazy]

0, which is awesome.

 

 

 

I don't understand how this is relevant, but two. Carlos Gomez is currently playing for the Milwaukee Brewers, and Phillip Humber is playing for the Kansas City Royals. Kevin Mulvey could be pitching for the DBacks too, and is still only 25 (though he doesn't look like he's very good). The Twins obviously dropped the ball on getting a solid return for Santana, but they've made incredible personnel decisions otherwise, and JJ Hardy is still on the Twins, whom they acquired for Carlos Gomez. Teams are prone to making mistakes, even when trading great players. They've apparently gotten over dealing him, and they're doing just fine, considering the Twins have won more divisions without Santana than the Mets have with him.

 

 

 

He was the #58 prospect according to BA heading into the season. He was blocked at the MLB level by Joe Mauer, and he put up a line of .241/.280/.345/.625 at AAA Rochester with very little power. His stock was very down.

 

 

 

They have been in a position to compete in the playoffs 5 times in the past 8 years, and they have been in competition for the divisional title in 8 of the past 10 years, including this year, which is more than can be said for the Sox. The Sox capitalized in 1 of their 5 playoff appearances in the last 50 years. The Twins have capitalized in 2 of their 10 playoff appearances in the last 50 years.

 

Excellent post. It's not always about what they get in trades but they seem to bounce back after losing some great players.

[kitekrazy]

Then if they're so s***ty why is it so hard for us to beat them out for the division most of the time?

 

They save their best for the Sox. They like hitting at the Cell because they see the ball much better.

 

[caulfield12]

I'm sure he mostly meant the last decade before the new stadium and the Mauer mega-contract.

 

They had to shed the salaries of Torii Hunter/Santana and a couple of seasons ago there was a lot of concern about how they could possibly keep Morneau/Mauer in the fold, along with Joe Nathan.

 

It wasn't so long ago their answers were Livan Hernandez, Mike Lamb and Adam Everett. The days of filling in the final 2-3 roster spots with washed up veterans seem to be behind the Twins for now.

 

 

Look at this way....the Twins have made very very few errors with personnel.

 

David Ortiz, although they simply couldn't get him in shape and working with their hitting system, their one notable failure.

Kyle Lohse has ended up doing well outside MINN, although you could say the same thing for Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, Jon Garland, Clayton Richard and Daniel Hudson when they're all in the NL.

 

They really had patience with Young, and I think they would have traded him away the last two off-seasons had Smith been able to find anything bordering on value for Delmon based on his actual ability. I'm still happy they don't have Garza, but we should have drafted Garza anyway, we went before the Twins that year.

 

The Santana trade would have set back most organizations 2-3 years and the Twins didn't miss a beat, competing the last 3 years, and very narrowly taking down the Sox one year before they were expected to be competitive for the ALCD again.

Edited August 17, 2010 by caulfield12

[Rowand44]

The problem is this year it was kind of atrocious even when we were winning all those games. Lotsa negativity.

I figure it's the economy and extra hot summer.

Lets get this straight, some of us saying that Jenks has been bad and needs to improve or saying Kotsay is garbage isn't being negative, it's pointing out the blatantly obvious.

[kitekrazy]

We are a good team and by golly we are good enough to win and we should all love each other .. not that way even though there isn't anything wong with that

 

Come on lighten up folks-it's only August and we have shown we can rebound. It's just one of those slumps every team goes through. It's a good thing we weren't 3 games out last Friday when the Tigers came to town

 

That's true. The slump is bad timing. If the remarkable win streak the Indians had in 2005 came a few weeks later, the post season might have been different.

 

[Milkman delivers]

Lets get this straight, some of us saying that Jenks has been bad and needs to improve or saying Kotsay is garbage isn't being negative, it's pointing out the blatantly obvious.

 

STOP RIPPING ON JENKS!

[jenksycat]

0, which is awesome.

 

 

 

I don't understand how this is relevant, but two. Carlos Gomez is currently playing for the Milwaukee Brewers, and Phillip Humber is playing for the Kansas City Royals. Kevin Mulvey could be pitching for the DBacks too, and is still only 25 (though he doesn't look like he's very good). The Twins obviously dropped the ball on getting a solid return for Santana, but they've made incredible personnel decisions otherwise, and JJ Hardy is still on the Twins, whom they acquired for Carlos Gomez. Teams are prone to making mistakes, even when trading great players. They've apparently gotten over dealing him, and they're doing just fine, considering the Twins have won more divisions without Santana than the Mets have with him.

 

 

 

He was the #58 prospect according to BA heading into the season. He was blocked at the MLB level by Joe Mauer, and he put up a line of .241/.280/.345/.625 at AAA Rochester with very little power. His stock was very down.

 

 

 

They have been in a position to compete in the playoffs 5 times in the past 8 years, and they have been in competition for the divisional title in 8 of the past 10 years, including this year, which is more than can be said for the Sox. The Sox capitalized in 1 of their 5 playoff appearances in the last 50 years. The Twins have capitalized in 2 of their 10 playoff appearances in the last 50 years.

 

It's relevant because we praise them as being the greatest team in the history of baseball yet its really just been because of good player development and not some genius gm. The heart of our team has been built on fleecing other teams in trades and signing cubans. Why doesn't that get any credit? Not to mention the fact that up until the last year or 2, our drafting and minor leagues were in shambles and have received much more attention and are on the right track.

 

What exactly does a "position to compete" in the playoffs mean? They win 1 game in the ALDS? They made it to the ALCS once in that time period, I'd put that at "position to compete once in 8 years", tying them with us.

 

I'm just sick of everyone (including the f***ing organization) vastly exaggerating what they've "accomplished' just because we can't seem to beat them.

 

[witesoxfan]

It's relevant because we praise them as being the greatest team in the history of baseball yet its really just been because of good player development and not some genius gm. The heart of our team has been built on fleecing other teams in trades and signing cubans. Why doesn't that get any credit? Not to mention the fact that up until the last year or 2, our drafting and minor leagues were in shambles and have received much more attention and are on the right track.

 

It does get credit. But recently, what moves has Williams made in which he has fleeced another organization?

 

For what it's worth, I've seen people give a ton of credit to Williams for acquiring Peavy and Rios, and then people have backtracked on crediting him for Peavy. People loved him for getting Danks and Floyd. People loved the Quentin deal. They have gotten credit for the moves they've made.

 

Beyond that, the drafting and minor league system are still in shambles. There are more legitimate prospects than 0; that doesn't mean they should be praised. To acquire Edwin Jackson, Williams had to trade the #3 and #8 prospect in the system (according to BA). The #1 prospect was injured in Spring Training. The #2 prospect has struggled mightily in AAA and may force the White Sox into looking into resigning Pierzynski or picking up Castro's option and making him the full time catcher. Chris Sale has been great in the minors and the majors, but he's going to have to prove to be an option in the rotation before he can be considered a top prospect (which I don't fear at all).

 

What exactly does a "position to compete" in the playoffs mean? They win 1 game in the ALDS? They made it to the ALCS once in that time period, I'd put that at "position to compete once in 8 years", tying them with us.

 

A position to compete would suggest that they've been in the thick of the race and playing meaningful games late into the season. They've done that in 8 of the past 10 years, and only twice - in 2001 and 2008 - were they eliminated. They still may be in 2010. For my own sake, I sure as hell hope they are. Just because they haven't won anything in the postseason since 2002 (or 1991 if you only want to include World Championships) doesn't take away from their regular season accomplishments. From everything you've read on here about how well these teams have been set up for the postseason, the Sox have won the most World Series rings among those teams that haven't made it to the playoffs. In my mind, they were a lock to win it in 2003, and they very well could have won it in 2006 and last year too had they made it; they didn't, so it was pointless to even argue.

 

I'm just sick of everyone (including the f***ing organization) vastly exaggerating what they've "accomplished' just because we can't seem to beat them.

 

I get tired of the White Sox organization idolizing the Twins organization. I don't believe, however, that they have, in any way, shape, or form, exaggerated what they've done and accomplished.

[kitekrazy]

Their $97.7 million payroll and $180 mill extension to Mauer this year suggest anything other than a limited budget.

 

A new ballpark and their attendance figures should help. You can't let a player like Mauer. Trading Santana wasn't so bad since he wanted out of there.