Theories? Why do the White Sox fade in Aug/Sept. every year?

[caulfield12]

I can't figure this out.

 

I was trying to get to sleep (it's 624 am in Thailand and I'm still aggravated), so I was trying to do something productive, like figure out why we can't play well in the last 6-8 weeks of a season.

 

Is it the Chicago heat/weather? That's always the excuse in Texas/Houston, but can we legitimately use it?

 

In 2000, we played a notch above .500 for most of the last couple of months and our pitchers went down or struggled to be held together with duct tape and baling wire. 2001, we actually played better in the second half, but we were already buried after starting out 14-29 and a number of injuries, particularly Thomas and David Wells.

 

2002, MEH. 2003, played well after the ASB but then ended up losing five in a row to Minnesota to finish the season. 2004, faded down the stretch.

 

2005, faded, almost choked the whole thing away and then recovered the final week.

 

2006, faded, played 8 games under .500 the second half and limped into 3rd place after having the best offense in baseball the first half.

 

2007, MEH. 2008, seemingly peaked early in the season when Linebrink was pitching well and Quentin/Ramirez were on a tear, then held on for dear life down the stretch with both teams trying to give the division away to each other through the final weeks.

 

2009, MEH.

 

2010, seemingly headed in the same direction.

 

 

What is it with this franchise? How can we be 4-19 against the Twins in the second half of 2008/09/10? How is that even possible?

 

How can the Twins play so well in the second halves of seasons, most notably 2002-2004, 2006, 2009 and 2010.

 

Do we need a team psychologist? Even without the looming spectre of the MetroDoom, we lost three in a row up there, with Jenks blowing what might turn out to be (at least looking back on the entire season) the most crucial game of the season, the finale of the four game series after the ASB. At that point, our lead would have been 3 1/2 games instead of 1 1/2.

 

Since beating the Twins the first game after the ASBreak, we're at .500. The Twins are 15 games over .500 without Morneau.

 

I don't think we can blame it all on the loss of Jake Peavy, either, since the Twins have been without Morneau both in 2009 and 2010.

 

Are we really a team that's mentally weak? Are we choking? Or is Minnesota just head and shoulders above the Sox and we're "returning to norm" after playing over our heads for 2 months?

 

Is there anything that Ozzie and KW could do differently, besides not listening to aging veterans year after year tell the FO that "they have the team to win it, no need to make any additional moves."

 

Is it because we don't have enough leadership or fire in our clubhouse (the theory that losing Everett and Rowand set us back in this area)? Are we too passive? (Winning creates chemistry, it's not the chemistry that creates the winning, right?)

 

Well, I'm not sure about that one either, almost all of the Twins' players have pretty laid back attitudes, too. Mauer and Morneau, in particular, have been under fire for not playing with enough fire or passion.

 

Is it simply that the White Sox don't play well when they're favorites or more talented, that we underachieve and play better when we're the underdogs or counted out by everyone?

 

I still don't get it.

 

I wish that I believed that Ozzie or KW had the answer/s, but I'm not feeling too confident in that regard at this particular moment in time.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Everyone in the organization, including the announcers, slob all over the Twins every year. How about getting the attitude where you want to rip off their heads and s*** down their throats instead of conceding to them before we even play them. All of the Metrodome excuses made me want to kill someone.

[caulfield12]

We beat them in 2005.

 

What is it about this organization that we make up excuses before we even play a team?

 

We used to really struggle in Oakland and Seattle, we got over that...

 

OTOH, there are some teams that don't match up well. Seemingly every season, the Yankees COMPLETELY dominate the Twins, setting the tone for the post-season.

 

I wonder if the White Sox don't believe they can beat the Twins, just like the Twins don't believe they can beat the Yankees?

 

It seems silly, but Ozzie plays into it, and seemingly has made it worse over time, instead of better. Harrelson does the same thing, whether it's Brad Radke, Carlos Gomez, Santana, Torii Hunter, Mauer, Morneau, Nathan, etc.

 

You would have thought with Joe Nathan on the shelf this entire season we'd have had some more confidence in being able to beat them late, but it simply hasn't happened. Doesn't matter whether it's Rauch or Capps.

Edited August 15, 2010 by caulfield12

[chisoxt]

My theory is that we have zero talent on the farm, system that can help us as the season drags along. Baseball is a game of attrition. Very rarely do you end the year with the same guys that you started with. And we have a team with veterans who are even more prone to breaking down. When guys wear or break down, you need capable replacements. We typically have none. Thanks our GM for that.

[greg775]

I wonder if the White Sox don't believe they can beat the Twins, just like the Twins don't believe they can beat the Yankees?

 

It certainly seems that way. I'm certainly at the point where I don't think we can beat the Twins.

[3E8]

Everyone in the organization, including the announcers, slob all over the Twins every year. How about getting the attitude where you want to rip off their heads and s*** down their throats instead of conceding to them before we even play them. All of the Metrodome excuses made me want to kill someone.

iawtc

[hogan873]

I can't figure it out. This year it seems like the lack of a real DH and the sometimes baffling managing decisions by Ozzie are finally catching up with them. The long run of great baseball was probably a lot of over acheiving. THe team is good, but I'm not sure they are good enough to be playing beyond the first week of October.

[greg775]

I know baseball's a long season and you don't want to get too high or too long, but the organization needs to figure a way to have more success against teams in the division. Sox have been average to s***ty against Central teams two years in a row now haven't they?

 

[hogan873]

I know baseball's a long season and you don't want to get too high or too long, but the organization needs to figure a way to have more success against teams in the division. Sox have been average to s***ty against Central teams two years in a row now haven't they?

Yes, they have. I can almost accept a hard time against the Twins, but playing like s*** against Cleveland and KC is ridiculous.

[fathom]

Cause regardless of what our manager thinks, we're a home run hitting organization because of our park. The last year, it seems our HR pace slows down considerbly the last two months.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I think that we're actually fairly ordinary with our post-break struggles. If you look at the "last 10" in the standings now, there really aren't many teams really dominating with 9-1's, 10-0's, 8-2's. Twins are the only team 8-2, a couple 7-3s, but the rest of both leagues are languishing in mediocrity. They don't call these the dog days for the hell of it. I think the fact that the Twins, almost religiously, perform well above average on an annual basis after the break tends to highlight our mediocrity to us more, as a division foe, than we'd see if we were say Yankee fans.

 

As you pointed out, over the last decade there really is no difference in our performance yet we've had different managers, different players, different coaching staffs....the park has undergone renovations that changed the way it played, weather is obviously not 100% consistent year to year.....Unless you want to blame Hawk or the uniforms, there really isn't anything you can definitively point to as a cause.

Edited August 16, 2010 by mmmmmbeeer

[bjm676]

I blame this year on Teahen. Once he started rehab, the downward spiral began. Look at what happen after he got hurt.....

[Greg Hibbard]

We are 3-7 in the last 10.

 

Prior to that stretch, we had gone 38-13 over the previous 51.

 

I realize the past two weeks have been tough to swallow, but every team has a 3-7 stretch in the last two months of the season. So many things went wrong over the last ten games. I'd say the book is still out on whether this is a real august-september fade or just a tough ten games.

 

If we can somehow win the series in minnesota, the season still has life.

If we lose two out of three, we're probably out of it, but have a chance if the Twins fade a bit after playing us.

If we get swept, we're definitely out of it.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Greg Hibbard

[chiguy79]

we can't beat Baltimore or a banged up Detroit team...now is officially the time to be worried...very worried...

 

that being said in June I thought we were dead in the water so anything can happen...lets sweep the twins and springboard that into a good September.

[hogan873]

We are 3-7 in the last 10.

 

Prior to that stretch, we had gone 38-13 over the previous 51.

 

I realize the past two weeks have been tough to swallow, but every team has a 3-7 stretch in the last two months of the season. So many things went wrong over the last ten games. I'd say the book is still out on whether this is a real august-september fade or just a tough ten games.

 

If we can somehow win the series in minnesota, the season still has life.

If we lose two out of three, we're probably out of it, but have a chance if the Twins fade a bit after playing us.

If we get swept, we're definitely out of it.

These are good points. Every team has bad spells, and the Sox are going through one right now. Their bad spell is amplified by the fact that they lost to a bad Baltimore team and the fact that the Twins are playing good baseball right now. It seems to me that the Sox are a fragile team and a lot of things have to go right for them to have a good run. Let's hope things start clicking soon because the Twins are for real.

[Balta1701]

The weird thing...since the AS break, we're in the middle of the pack in terms of ERA in the AL, and actually slightly better than we were in the first half so far, and we're 3rd in the AL in runs scored since the AS break when we were only #9 in the first half. We're actually playing slightly better right now than we played on the whole in the first half, based on those numbers.

 

The problem is...the Twins have the #1 offense and the #2 ERA in the AL since the AS break.

[caulfield12]

But that bullpen, how do they rank since the ASB?

 

Jenks had the two blown saves right after the break (Minn and Seattle), there was the game we almost lost against DET that we were fortunate to recover, the Sunday Orioles game, now the last two against DET.

 

That's a minimum of six bullpen letdowns in the span of a month.

 

You can definitely make an argument we SHOULD be 18 games over .500, but that's not the way it works, of course.

[Greg Hibbard]

That's a minimum of six bullpen letdowns in the span of a month.

 

And that's all the more reason to think that this stretch is probably more of an anomaly than true form.

[WCSox]

I can't figure it out. This year it seems like the lack of a real DH and the sometimes baffling managing decisions by Ozzie are finally catching up with them. The long run of great baseball was probably a lot of over acheiving.

 

People need to stop playing this card. The Sox have been bad over the past week because the same players that dominated the league for the past two months haven't been executing. It's as simple as that.

 

[LVSoxFan]

Yeah I don't buy the "lack of a real DH" argument either.

 

I think we're in the "dog days," and people are tired. The trick is to not fall far enough back that you can't recover. We're going to find out this week what this team "really" is.

 

I also tire of the Twins worship, too. Yes, they're always good and they're always at our heels, but as people point out, they never go anywhere in the playoffs. There's no reason that we shouldn't go toe-to-toe with them, unless people really do believe that they are, and always have been, a better team.

[BigSqwert]

Yeah I don't buy the "lack of a real DH" argument either.

 

I think we're in the "dog days," and people are tired.

Tired?! How the hell are we tired? We have a rotating DH situation that gives guys more rest than we've seen in recent years?

[hogan873]

People need to stop playing this card. The Sox have been bad over the past week because the same players that dominated the league for the past two months haven't been executing. It's as simple as that.

I disagree, but that's what the board is all about...discussions. I believe that the DH position has been an issue, and Ozzie has made some bad decisions when it comes to lineups because of that. Mark Kotsay getting as many at bats as he has (and in the 5 hole quite often) is not a recipe for a lot of wins. Look at the batting averages of the two guys (Jones and Kotsay) that were supposed to be our DH's. Not good.

[Greg Hibbard]

Here's the other thing I frankly don't f***ing get - Nieves last night was on the score saying "you NEED to give guys rest. They NEED the days off."

 

Really? Don't the elite players just play 155-160 games every year? In the old days, didn't people just f***ing play every day?

 

This whole "scheduled days off" thing that Ozzie started has really brainwashed people close to the Sox into thinking that these guys NEED the days off.

 

Sure, it seems like it works sometimes....some days it really seems like it doesn't.

[spiderman]

Outside of the bullpen in the Detroit series (specifcally Putz), I don't think the White Sox played bad in that series. They had a 2-1 lead in the 9th inning on Sunday and a 7-5 lead in the 7th (and I believe 7-6 in the 8th). You can't ask for more than to have a lead in the late innings. If one of the best relievers on the club suddenly falls apart, that's just bad luck/timing.

[WCSox]

I disagree, but that's what the board is all about...discussions. I believe that the DH position has been an issue, and Ozzie has made some bad decisions when it comes to lineups because of that. Mark Kotsay getting as many at bats as he has (and in the 5 hole quite often) is not a recipe for a lot of wins. Look at the batting averages of the two guys (Jones and Kotsay) that were supposed to be our DH's. Not good.

 

Ozzie/Wise/Nix are no more responsible for the Sox tanking last season than Ozzie/Kotsay/Jones are for the Sox playing poorly over the past week. In both cases, a bad bullpen hurt the team a lot more.

Edited August 16, 2010 by WCSox