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Ozzie Guillen


BigSqwert

Take him or leave him?  

120 members have voted

  1. 1. If we DON'T make the post season....

    • Get rid of him. He's outstayed his welcome.
      56
    • Keep him. The players let him down.
      37
    • Give him one more year.
      27
  2. 2. If we DO make the post season...

    • Get rid of him. He still can't manage worth a lick.
      31
    • Keep him. How can you get rid of a guy that brought us a WS and 2 other DIV titles.
      59
    • Give him one more year.
      30


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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 03:21 PM)
Lifelong? Wow. If they came in last place the next 4 years you'd be perfectly fine with that?

 

That's when you start wanting a new GM. With both Kenny and Ozzie that is very unlikely to happen but if it did, I bet they would both quit.

 

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 04:20 PM)
So Ozzie at worst is a top 10 manager.

 

Out of the 30 people who are currently acting as a manager in Major League Baseball, sure you can argue that. That doesn't mean there are people who are currently bench coaches, minor league managers, former players not currently doing anything, out-of-work managers, or guys walking down the street who may also be better.

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QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 04:20 PM)
So Ozzie at worst is a top 10 manager.

 

He's immediately ranked below every American League manager because he quite simply does not comprehend that you do not manage/field an AL club like it's competing in the NL. So that places him 14th right off the bat.

 

But if he were in the the NL he wouldn't be the best NL manager either....I'd place Manuel, Torre, Cox, Black, and Tracy all above him.

 

So yeah, I'd put him about 19th in the league. I wish these SABR guys would come up with a manager stat.

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QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 06:25 PM)
So yeah, I'd put him about 19th in the league. I wish these SABR guys would come up with a manager stat.

The thing is...if there was a SABR manager stat, Ozzie would almost certainly score ridiculously well, because for the last 6 years, his teams have consistently outperformed the preseason projections and the pythagorean projections.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 05:26 PM)
The thing is...if there was a SABR manager stat, Ozzie would almost certainly score ridiculously well, because for the last 6 years, his teams have consistently outperformed the preseason projections and the pythagorean projections.

 

I think it would be a situational analysis as opposed to a holistic season analysis. Every other stat is a culmination of small instances over the course of a season, not sure why a manager stat would be any different.

 

For instance, and I'm no SABR guy, but i believe SABR frowns heavily on sac bunts and yet OG is all about a sac bunt. By atleast that single variable, despite a World Series win in 2005, SABR would consider him a poor manager.

Edited by mmmmmbeeer
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c, c

 

Not enamored with Ozzie, the shine of 2005 started wearing off sometime in 2008 (despite winning the division) but I don't blame him (solely) for this team being what it is right now - for example, the pathetic start to the season wasn't his fault. At the same time I wouldn't really be all that upset if he was gone either, for the reasons BigSqwert stated early in the thread. I think a manager's influence on a MLB team is pretty overrated most of the time, although you can't really just make your team start winning more by saying "guys you need to play better."

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QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 04:05 PM)
I think a manager's influence on a MLB team is pretty overrated most of the time

there are exceptions, though. especially the orioles of late. Pinella used to have the magic touch as well.

 

seems a manager can do more harm than good, in a weird way. Or maybe it's just that their mistakes are more magnified (Grady Little).

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QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 17, 2010 -> 07:36 PM)
there are exceptions, though. especially the orioles of late. Pinella used to have the magic touch as well.

 

seems a manager can do more harm than good, in a weird way. Or maybe it's just that their mistakes are more magnified (Grady Little).

I was going to say this but it would've changed the direction of my post. I think the amount of "magic" a manager has is limited by time. Kind of like how in the NBA you bring in a disciplinarian coach (like Scott Skiles) and you always get improvement at first and then the players tune him out after a couple of years.

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QUOTE (IamtheHBOMB @ Aug 18, 2010 -> 04:01 AM)
The one good thing to come out of this is that KW will be able to tell Ozzie to shut the f*** up from now on when he gives his ridiculous input on roster moves

 

That's if KW returns next season...still think he'll go the Paxson route.

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One glaring flaw in Ozzie is that he hasn't learned in all these years of managing is optimizing the 25 man roster you're given. Had Thome returned he would have been used as an every day DH batting 4th or 5th and would have worn down by August like he had in his previous years with us. Ozzie never looks at stats and splits so he wouldn't have done what Gardenhire has effectively done this season. And look at all of the 25th men on the team each year that get overused and played out of position. Kotsay, Wise, Makowiak, etc aren't bad 24th or 25th men. They just need to be used correctly. These are part time players, pinch hitters, pinch runners and not everyday players the way they have been with us. The fact that Ozzie still misuses his roster like this is a sign that he will continue to do so. A major league manager should know better than that.

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