Official 2010-2011 NCAA Basketball Thread

[whitesoxfan99]

Bruce Weber at SIU: 15-12 (t-5th MVC), 20-13 (3rd MVC; NIT 2nd round), 16-14 (t-4th MVC), 28-8 (t-1st MVC; Sweet 16), 24-7 (1st MVC; NCAA 1st round)

Bill Self didn't make the postseason until his fourth year at Oral Roberts and that was the NIT. He didn't make the tourney in his first year with Tulsa and went 9-5 in the WAC in year two (with a tourney appearance).

Tom Izzo didn't make the tourney until his 3rd year at Michigan State.

 

Generally everyone does exactly what you just said.

 

 

I think that's fairly clear at this point. Unless you can get a Matt Painter type (and really, meh) who is potentially frustrated at his major job, Shaka is the most attractive candidate.

 

And it wasn't until Weber established SIU as a top program in the MVC and Self went 32-5 with an Elite 8 did they step up to major conferences. I was just saying when they were hired they generally have had more success in their leagues than Smart has. Smart also inherited a program that had won three straight CAA regular season titles and a first round pick. Like Self he has the great tourney run going for him though and as I've said, I think he is a good candidate I just would be a little concerned that he has finished 5th and 4th in the CAA (which is a solid conference but still) with quite a bit of talent on his roster for that conference.

Edited March 31, 2011 by whitesoxfan99

[ZoomSlowik]

Bruce Weber at SIU: 15-12 (t-5th MVC), 20-13 (3rd MVC; NIT 2nd round), 16-14 (t-4th MVC), 28-8 (t-1st MVC; Sweet 16), 24-7 (1st MVC; NCAA 1st round)

Bill Self didn't make the postseason until his fourth year at Oral Roberts and that was the NIT. He didn't make the tourney in his first year with Tulsa and went 9-5 in the WAC in year two (with a tourney appearance).

Tom Izzo didn't make the tourney until his 3rd year at Michigan State.

 

Generally everyone does exactly what you just said.

 

 

I think that's fairly clear at this point. Unless you can get a Matt Painter type (and really, meh) who is potentially frustrated at his major job, Shaka is the most attractive candidate.

 

Those 4th and 5th years are the important parts though, the part of his career where he's winning the conference with his own recruits. We don't know how capable he is of building a program because he has so little experience as a head coach so far. Anthony Grant already did a lot of the heavy lifting at VCU by going 76-25 before he left for Alabama. He also recruited the five best players on this current VCU squad and Larry Sanders, who left after last season (Shaka's first) for the pros.

 

He just hasn't built much of a resume, you don't know if he's Todd Licklitter or Thad Matta yet. That former one is the comparison that would worry me. Following a brief stopover from Matta, Lick went 53-12 his first two years with a Sweet 16 appearance. Butler went 49-43 his next three years before he had another solid season (29-7, Sweet 16 appearance) and bolted for Iowa. He didn't last long there.

 

Then again, it could make a ton of sense for Missouri as their roster is loaded with returning talent. A coach that can maximize that right now and reap the benefits of a strong season on the recruiting trail could set them up nicely. I'm not sure who that coach is though, these candidates don't exactly thrill me.

 

If I were the AD at a middle to upper tier power conference school, I wouldn't go near him right now because his cost will out-pace his resume by a fair margin. For the salary he'll likely get, I'd want another two years of solid performances in a lower conference.

Edited March 31, 2011 by ZoomSlowik

[He_Gawn]

Shaka + Mizzou's facilities = success... You'll be glad you didn't hire Painter. Outside of 2007, he hasn't done a damn thing on the recruiting trail. Not to mention he doesn't make in game adjustments, and he'll tell you that.

[Chisoxfn]

A ton of recruiting is about coaches and how they relate with the players. Maybe the top 20 kids in the country want to know how you will get me from freshman to NBA in one year, but the four-star recruits can easily be swayed by a young, energetic and charismatic coach. Josh Pastnor at Memphis isn't Coach K, Self, etc., but he is young, relentless and affable. He has gotten studs for Memphis the last two years. It will be very similar for Shaka once he gets at a good power conference school.

And he had proven he was a legitimate recruiter prior to becoming the head coach. He built connections and had already earned the reputation to sell/recruit under Callipari.

 

And it is all about who guys know. You have connections with different AAU coaches, you have pipelines, and you use them. There are a few golden recruiters that can go anywhere and recruit, but by and large, it is very much about having your contacts, your connections, and your pipelines and turning talent through those areas.

 

The being a pure seller, which some of you are saying Shaka is, and I don't know if he is or isn't, is going to be tough because your going to be trying to out sell the greats.

 

And I don't buy into Williams not being a good recruiter, his programs constantly recruit. Maybe it isn't directly because of him being the pitch-man and he has assistants that do it, but the guy routinely is pulling some of the top recruits in the country.

[Chisoxfn]

Those 4th and 5th years are the important parts though, the part of his career where he's winning the conference with his own recruits. We don't know how capable he is of building a program because he has so little experience as a head coach so far. Anthony Grant already did a lot of the heavy lifting at VCU by going 76-25 before he left for Alabama. He also recruited the five best players on this current VCU squad and Larry Sanders, who left after last season (Shaka's first) for the pros.

 

He just hasn't built much of a resume, you don't know if he's Todd Licklitter or Thad Matta yet. That former one is the comparison that would worry me. Following a brief stopover from Matta, Lick went 53-12 his first two years with a Sweet 16 appearance. Butler went 49-43 his next three years before he had another solid season (29-7, Sweet 16 appearance) and bolted for Iowa. He didn't last long there.

 

Then again, it could make a ton of sense for Missouri as their roster is loaded with returning talent. A coach that can maximize that right now and reap the benefits of a strong season on the recruiting trail could set them up nicely. I'm not sure who that coach is though, these candidates don't exactly thrill me.

 

If I were the AD at a middle to upper tier power conference school, I wouldn't go near him right now because his cost will out-pace his resume by a fair margin. For the salary he'll likely get, I'd want another two years of solid performances in a lower conference.

Agreed.

[fathom]

And I don't buy into Williams not being a good recruiter, his programs constantly recruit. Maybe it isn't directly because of him being the pitch-man and he has assistants that do it, but the guy routinely is pulling some of the top recruits in the country.

 

Williams is infamous for his recruiting misses. McD AA to Maryland have been few and far between since they won the title.

[Chisoxfn]

Williams is infamous for his recruiting misses. McD AA to Maryland have been few and far between since they won the title.

Brain fart, I was primarily referencing to Roy Williams.

[danman31]

Those 4th and 5th years are the important parts though, the part of his career where he's winning the conference with his own recruits. We don't know how capable he is of building a program because he has so little experience as a head coach so far. Anthony Grant already did a lot of the heavy lifting at VCU by going 76-25 before he left for Alabama. He also recruited the five best players on this current VCU squad and Larry Sanders, who left after last season (Shaka's first) for the pros.

 

He just hasn't built much of a resume, you don't know if he's Todd Licklitter or Thad Matta yet. That former one is the comparison that would worry me. Following a brief stopover from Matta, Lick went 53-12 his first two years with a Sweet 16 appearance. Butler went 49-43 his next three years before he had another solid season (29-7, Sweet 16 appearance) and bolted for Iowa. He didn't last long there.

 

Then again, it could make a ton of sense for Missouri as their roster is loaded with returning talent. A coach that can maximize that right now and reap the benefits of a strong season on the recruiting trail could set them up nicely. I'm not sure who that coach is though, these candidates don't exactly thrill me.

Ultimately this is the biggest argument against Shaka. It's not that he isn't experienced. I don't think that matters, youth probably helps trump that in recruiting and he has proven to some extent to be a very good game coach. It's that we don't know how he will do in year 4 or 5 because he hasn't had one. The lack of experience doesn't make him a bad candidate, it makes him an unknown.

 

More importantly, like you said, the remaining candidates don't thrill me either. Unless there is a seemingly random rumor about a high major coach (for example Painter or Weber to OU) that surprisingly comes to fruition, I believe Shaka is the best candidate of the group.

[whitesoxfan99]

Jacob Tucker is an unreal dunker. Wow

[maggsmaggs]

Jacob Tucker is an unreal dunker. Wow

5'10" and white, and he goes out there looking like Vince Carter. Truly amazing. What's more amazing is how he ended up there with the social media campaign for him. Shows the power of the Internet.

[Rowand44]

Jacob Tucker is an unreal dunker. Wow

Ya, that was fun.

[RockRaines]

Jacob Tucker is an unreal dunker. Wow

[YASNY]

<!--quoteo(post=2343945:date=Mar 31, 2011 -> 09:43 PM:name=whitesoxfan99)-->

<!--quotec-->Jacob Tucker is an unreal dunker. Wow

 

Wait! This is a 5'10" white guy. This HAS to be an April Fool's Day joke or something!

[witesoxfan]

so that's what it would look like if I dunked

[LittleHurt05]

so now its Lon Kruger to Oklahoma???

[danman31]

Mizzou just hired Frank Haith? WTF? Really hoping this isn't true, but it's sounding pretty real. Zen, I think you should be thanking my school for taking this s***ty coach off your hands. WTF.

[fathom]

Mazel tov Zen!

[whitesoxfan99]

Mizzou just hired Frank Haith? WTF? Really hoping this isn't true, but it's sounding pretty real. Zen, I think you should be thanking my school for taking this s***ty coach off your hands. WTF.

 

Wow that is a f***ing terrible hire. I would be f***ing furious if I was a Missouri fan. One NCAA tourney in 7 years and never finished above .500 in the ACC. Yikes.

[whitesoxfan101]

http://twitter.com/fakefrankhaith

 

Comic relief for any Mizzou fans feeling suicidal about this awful hire.

Edited April 4, 2011 by whitesoxfan101

[Heads22]

As an Iowa State fan, I like this news. Could also mean Frank Martin heading home.

[danman31]

As an Iowa State fan, I like this news. Could also mean Frank Martin heading home.

Yeah this is all an elaborate plan to make Martin leave the conference. Once he takes the Miami job Mizzou can fire Haith and get a real coach.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yeah this is all an elaborate plan to make Martin leave the conference. Once he takes the Miami job Mizzou can fire Haith and get a real coach.

 

That's actually not the worst plan on paper.

[danman31]

That's actually not the worst plan on paper.

Sure as heck would be better than keeping this guy. (Please be Gene Chizik)

[whitesoxfan99]

Sure as heck would be better than keeping this guy. (Please be Gene Chizik)

 

Difference of course is that Haith sucked for 7 years not 2 and there are no Guz Malzahns in college basketball and I doubt Missouri will be buying the best player in college basketball.

[danman31]

Difference of course is that Haith sucked for 7 years not 2 and there are no Guz Malzahns in college basketball and I doubt Missouri will be buying the best player in college basketball.

And in reality I thought Chizik was doing well to get things going at Iowa State. As someone who follows the Big 12, I respected Chizik. It's not the type of hire a school like Auburn typically makes, but I thought he was doing positive things there. Not sure I see the same things about Haith.