Soxbadger Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Witness the fact that Crean went to Indiana after holding press conference previously in which he essentially said he would not leave Marquette for Illinois. Im sure Crean said that he wouldnt leave Marquette for Wisconsin, the problem with saying that is he never was offered or even considered for the Wisconsin job (nor the Illinois job as Weber is the coach and there was no opening.) Indiana has a better recruiting base than Illinois -- they can pull recruits from Chicago just as easily as Illinois plus they have an advantage over Illinois recruiting the state of Indiana. Over the last 20 years Illinois has done considerably better than Indiana at recruiting Chicago prospects. In fact Indiana has done a poor job of holding onto the top tier of prospects in their own state (Greg Oden), so I dont think you can really say Indiana can pull from Illinois just as easily. Illinois generally gets the most recruits from Chicago, this includes over teams such as Kansas etc. Crean's incoming classes are significantly better than Illinois. The Indiana fanbase in terms of selling out the arena is better. And Indiana has the history that give it a bigger national media presence than Illinois. Im not one to really care about star ratings, Ill judge the players when they hit the floor. I also have yet to see a Spring Creaning (when Crean gets rid of guys who arent playing as well to open up new schollies), will this go over well in Indiana? As for bigger media presence, thats your opinion. I personally think Illinois blows Indiana out of the water. I watch a ton of Big 10 basketball and my impression of Indiana is pretty low. The biggest impact Indiana has had recently has been the Sampson scandal. Indiana is not really an important team in the current Big 10 make up. I cant imagine Indiana leaving Illinois in the dust, as even during the Bob Knight years, Illinois was still one of the top programs. Personally I think Crean may get Indiana to be at Minnesota levels, but there is very little reason to believe he will be more successful than Bo Ryan, Matta or Izzo. I could be wrong, but Ive seen Marquette from 1999 on and Crean never really impressed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) I think there are a fair number more than that. Schools like UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA and Indiana have been considered elite for quite some time, there are other ones that one great coach has made elite like Duke, Syracuse, MSU and UConn, and there are others that cycle into the elite bracket from time to time (OSU right now, Florida 5 years ago, Memphis before Calipari left, Michigan 20 years ago, ect). Illinois can easily cycle to the elite group with a solid run of success, but they haven't really had any kind of sustained run in recent history. There's no chance I'd call them a top-10 program right now and you can probably argue they're lower than that. I think you are confusing elite with good. There are only maybe 5 elite jobs, and UCLA and Indiana are not in that grouping whatsoever. OSU will probably never be an elite bball job, mostly because its an elite football school first and foremost. Usually elite bball jobs are not elite football schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 03:39 PM) The fan support at OSU is another thing, since the fans dont care as much about the basketball as what goes on at the Horseshoe. I believe they didnt sell out this week as the #1 team playing the 2nd best team in the conference. I'm not trying to downplay Ohio State as some crap basketball job, but as compared to the top jobs, I think it could be a slight factor. The fan support is an accurate statement, it will never be as popular as football. Ohio is simply a football state. However the reason they have been a top team over the last several years is because of superior coaching and recruiting. Even if you won some games in the 70's and 80's, it doesnt mean s*** if the coach is garbage. Programs that have the prestige to pull in top guys based on rep alone are not in the Big Ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Not sure where I saw this quote, but it's perfect relating to last night: Weber needed that victory, as Illinois is never going to have a game vs Indiana again where the talent level discrepancy is so one-sided. Kinda like how I would have felt if Sampson's IU team lost to Illinois in Bloomington, which they almost did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 How do you think Richmond would play in Europe? It's been talked about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) And if Indiana is a top program, so is Illinois. I just dont see what advantage Indiana has over Illinois going forward. Indiana's tradition was years ago, and furthermore they have not shown the ability to keep the top in state recruits from leaving. Conversely, Illinois was in the NCAA finals within the last 10 years and has had significant success recruiting in Chicago. If I was going to be given a Big 10 team, no way would I consider Indiana over Illinois. You have not followed Indiana recruiting lately have you? They've been on a run that is just unheard of, Calipari like. Also, IU is not elite anymore, but a top level job, it is. We've been god awful for 3 years, and we nearly sell out every game with just ridiculous atmospheres. Our tradition may be old, but its unmatched in the bigten. Indiana should be well on its way back starting next year, as the cavalry starts to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Also, Indiana has never recruited well in Illinois, even when Knight was there. We pulled the occasional guy (Thomas and Buckner). All you have to do as the coach of Indiana is shut down the border, and thats what Crean has started to do. Its the most talent rich state in terms of people per capita. I know you hate everything Crean because you're a Wisconsin fan, but good things are starting to brew down in Bloomington. We weren't going to be a bottom feeder forever. Basketball is everything in this state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) You have not followed Indiana recruiting lately have you? They've been on a run that is just unheard of, Calipari like. Also, IU is not elite anymore, but a top level job, it is. We've been god awful for 3 years, and we nearly sell out every game with just ridiculous atmospheres. Our tradition may be old, but its unmatched in the bigten. Indiana should be well on its way back starting next year, as the cavalry starts to arrive. Unheard of huh? Check out the recruiting rankings of the top team in the Big Ten to see where the bar currently sits. And do you really think IU has elite history? They haven't won a title since 1987, way before recruits were born and have only had one good team since the mid 90's. The entire claim to fame is the 5 titles they won many years ago. History is good and all, but i don't think it means much to recruits who don't have parents from Indiana that remember the old glory days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You have not followed Indiana recruiting lately have you? They've been on a run that is just unheard of, Calipari like. I used to follow recruiting heavily, but I stopped once I realized that I dont care about fancy stars and Id rather judge the players myself. So im not sure what Indiana's future recruiting classes look like, all I can tell you is what Indiana's present team looks like. And presently they dont have any dynamite freshman that Id say are 5 star elite recruits. We've been god awful for 3 years, and we nearly sell out every game with just ridiculous atmospheres. Our tradition may be old, but its unmatched in the bigten. Indiana should be well on its way back starting next year, as the cavalry starts to arrive. I guess I dont care about sell outs and atmosphere, that doesnt win games, the players on the court do. And until the sell outs and atmosphere start equaling points and wins, Ill just say that you can have the best environment in the world and it wont get you anywhere if the kids cant play. I know you hate everything Crean because you're a Wisconsin fan, I actually dont care about the Marquette Wisconsin rivalry, I didnt even know it was a rivalry until I left school. As I was not from Wisconsin, I only considered Big 10 schools to be rivals (where my friends went). It wasnt unitl I started reading Rivals/Scout that I found out there was a rivalry between Marquette and Wisconsin. I try not to let my fandom interfere with my judgments of teams or programs. I wouldnt say I hate Crean, I dont even dislike him, I just think hes an average coach/recruiter. It really doesnt matter to me, Wisconsin is the team I care about and people are never going to respect them anyways. Just in my personal opinion Indiana is not a significantly better job than most in the Big 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) And do you really think IU has elite history? They haven't won a title since 1987, way before recruits were born and have only had one good team since the mid 90's. The entire claim to fame is the 5 titles they won many years ago. History is good and all, but i don't think it means much to recruits who don't have parents from Indiana that remember the old glory days. Maybe its something in the water in Indiana, but that sounds an awful lot like a college football program up in the northern part of the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 06:24 PM) Unheard of huh? Check out the recruiting rankings of the top team in the Big Ten to see where the bar currently sits. And do you really think IU has elite history? They haven't won a title since 1987, way before recruits were born and have only had one good team since the mid 90's. The entire claim to fame is the 5 titles they won many years ago. History is good and all, but i don't think it means much to recruits who don't have parents from Indiana that remember the old glory days. Yes, I do believe IU used to be elite. 5 titles speak for itself. Hell, the bigten as a conference has 10 total! We are no longer elite, but we definitely have great tradition. You should probably go mention that to all these guys we have coming in, because the first thing out of their mouth when they mention they want to come to IU, is they want to bring back IU basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 06:25 PM) I used to follow recruiting heavily, but I stopped once I realized that I dont care about fancy stars and Id rather judge the players myself. So im not sure what Indiana's future recruiting classes look like, all I can tell you is what Indiana's present team looks like. And presently they dont have any dynamite freshman that Id say are 5 star elite recruits. I guess I dont care about sell outs and atmosphere, that doesnt win games, the players on the court do. And until the sell outs and atmosphere start equaling points and wins, Ill just say that you can have the best environment in the world and it wont get you anywhere if the kids cant play. I actually dont care about the Marquette Wisconsin rivalry, I didnt even know it was a rivalry until I left school. As I was not from Wisconsin, I only considered Big 10 schools to be rivals (where my friends went). It wasnt unitl I started reading Rivals/Scout that I found out there was a rivalry between Marquette and Wisconsin. I try not to let my fandom interfere with my judgments of teams or programs. I wouldnt say I hate Crean, I dont even dislike him, I just think hes an average coach/recruiter. It really doesnt matter to me, Wisconsin is the team I care about and people are never going to respect them anyways. Just in my personal opinion Indiana is not a significantly better job than most in the Big 10. Fair enough, but when you start with 2 walk ons to work with when you arrive, along with probation, you have to start someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 05:31 PM) Yes, I do believe IU used to be elite. 5 titles speak for itself. Hell, the bigten as a conference has 10 total! We are no longer elite, but we definitely have great tradition. You should probably go mention that to all these guys we have coming in, because the first thing out of their mouth when they mention they want to come to IU, is they want to bring back IU basketball. That was an iPad error. I meant elite now because of their history. There were a lot of great sports programs in the 60's 70's and 80's that are average now. I really don't care if the guys read the company line, I am more interested to see if Crean can actually coach his way there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Indiana being this bad is no good for the Big 10. I guess my expectation of Indiana getting into the top half of the Big 10, is more tempered than some expectations of Indiana returning to Bob Knight glory. I think we can all agree on how bad Iowa is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Speaking of environments, i think minny, Wisconsin, and msu are probably the best and the toughest places to play in the conference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 05:36 PM) Indiana being this bad is no good for the Big 10. I guess my expectation of Indiana getting into the top half of the Big 10, is more tempered than some expectations of Indiana returning to Bob Knight glory. I think we can all agree on how bad Iowa is I'm a giant Bob Knight fan, and that's the gap i see here, i don't think Crean is the coach that pushes a program into top tier status. I could be wrong, but i watched OSU's program which wasn't s*** get pushed into top tier status simply because of a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thats what I was saying, IU isn't elite anymore, but you can't deny their history. I'm like you on Crean, I'm still not sure. I want the guy to succeed, and he's definitely going to have the talent to do so in the next few years. If the boosters are not happen by 2013, then you'll see IU give Brad Stevens an NBA contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Im a big Bob Knight fan as well (I always liked him). Also Bo Ryan claims that Knight taught him most of the system that he uses at a coaching clinic. And right now Wisconsin is arguably the toughest place to play in basketball, at least if we use statistical winning percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 QUOTE (farmteam @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) That actually doesn't bother me like storming the court did. It was the first win over a ranked opponent in Crean's tenure, and we've been starving for this. I actually think it's neat he went to the lobby. Somehow after how pissed off I was about losing, I'm feeling better by the minute realizing that by defeating us, IU won the national championship. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 What's that post about Richmond playing in Europe all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 08:24 PM) What's that post about Richmond playing in Europe all about? Talked to an ex coach of his and mentioned he is not doing very well in class and Europe maybe an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 29, 2011 -> 03:27 AM) Talked to an ex coach of his and mentioned he is not doing very well in class and Europe maybe an option. Interesting...a very well-known chicagoland AAU member said there's no way in hell Richmond goes back next season. Also, some buzz that Richardson is struggling in class as well. He struggled to qualify out of high school He's been very accurate in the past besides telling me Shumpert was UNC bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) Interesting...a very well-known chicagoland AAU member said there's no way in hell Richmond goes back next season. Also, some buzz that Richardson is struggling in class as well. He struggled to qualify out of high school He's been very accurate in the past besides telling me Shumpert was UNC bound. Arent grades the reason DJ transferred to prep school? Richmond would have to go to Europe if he leaves Illinois. No way he sits out a year as transfer and ge wouldn't even get drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 29, 2011 -> 03:41 AM) Arent grades the reason DJ transferred to prep school? Richmond would have to go to Europe if he leaves Illinois. No way he sits out a year as transfer and ge wouldn't even get drafted. I think someone would take a chance on Richmond in the 2nd round. He'd be a terrible fit overseas, as you need to be a superior jump shooter if you're his size over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 06:24 PM) Unheard of huh? Check out the recruiting rankings of the top team in the Big Ten to see where the bar currently sits. And do you really think IU has elite history? They haven't won a title since 1987, way before recruits were born and have only had one good team since the mid 90's. The entire claim to fame is the 5 titles they won many years ago. History is good and all, but i don't think it means much to recruits who don't have parents from Indiana that remember the old glory days. QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 06:29 PM) Maybe its something in the water in Indiana, but that sounds an awful lot like a college football program up in the northern part of the state. How old were their great grandparents when an Illinois team won a National Champonship in basketball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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