The Manram Thread

[BigSqwert]

To my mind, the value in the Manny deal is that he gives a HUGE mental boost to a team that really needed it after the repeated bullpen meltdowns in late July and August. Judging by back-to-back rallies in the 8th and 9th innings, I think the deal has already shown itself to be of value. I think the SOX believe they can win again and catch the Twins, and that's half the battle. We've already seen a motivated, focused Sox team go on a tremendous tear. With Manny on the team, the chances of it happening again are much improved.

 

Plus, teams will pitch our guys differently with Manny in the lineup. And once he gets his timing back, Manny himself will start to rake.

I like the cut of your jib.

[VAfan]

Ozzie didn't make a great call in sitting Manny. Yes, we won the game, but we won because AJ hit a 3-run homerun. Kotsay (who Manny would have been playing in place of) had nothing to do with the 3 runs that led to the Sox win. I'm not saying Manny would have created any more runs, but Kotsay certainly didn't.

 

Kotsay drew the walk that became the tying run yesterday in the 8th.

[Steve9347]

Manny spoke some sexy English to Pedro Gomez today.

[T R U]

''When I asked him how he felt, he didn't give the right answers,'' manager Ozzie Guillen said of his decision to give Ramirez a day to get acclimated.

 

 

Yep, he's fired up and can't wait to jump into a pennant race.

 

Yeah but it could have been as simple as "Well im a little tired but I could play"

[Steve9347]

Yeah but it could have been as simple as "Well im a little tired but I could play"

Carl, we must always expect the worst from Herr Manny.

[greg775]

It's like having the right answer to a math question but no work shown. You might have gotten lucky with the result, but you didn't prove that you know what you're talking about.

 

 

We won the game! How can you criticize Ozzie?

 

 

Kotsay drew the walk that became the tying run yesterday in the 8th.

 

VaFan with the slam dunk. Nice job.

The bottom line is winning. We won the game. From the account I read from Passon, Manny uh didn't really want to play yesterday anyhow. Believe whom you want. We won all 3 games which means they were well managed games.

We lose they are poorly managed games.

[BigSqwert]

We won all 3 games which means they were well managed games.

We lose they are poorly managed games.

You should see if ESPN is hiring analysts.

[greg775]

You should see if ESPN is hiring analysts.

 

With almost 10 percent of Americans out of work, I doubt they are hiring. I wonder when they are going to start calling this a depression and not a recession.

[Balta1701]

With almost 10 percent of Americans out of work, I doubt they are hiring. I wonder when they are going to start calling this a depression and not a recession.

A depression is in general a 10% drop in GDP or a recession lasting longer than 2 years. Neither of those states apply to the U.S.

[justBLAZE]

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicagowhite-sox/p...white-sox-debut

[greg775]

A depression is in general a 10% drop in GDP or a recession lasting longer than 2 years. Neither of those states apply to the U.S.

 

I don't like what is going on and I think the president should declare a state of emergency on the economy.

All I know are people getting canned.

This link is scary on depression in 2011.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/23-doomsaye...-in-2011-2010-5

[chw42]

So Manny is shaving his head?

[hi8is]

So Manny is shaving his head?

Says who?

[lostfan]

I got really hammered once and didn't know what to do so I called Ozzie for advice. He suggested I get in my car and drive home. Since I didn't die or get arrested it was good advice and the smart thing to do.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

LOL, Manny is flying his barber out to Boston to cut his hair before the game on Friday....

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5521211

[greg775]

I got really hammered once and didn't know what to do so I called Ozzie for advice. He suggested I get in my car and drive home. Since I didn't die or get arrested it was good advice and the smart thing to do.

 

I don't see why sitting Manny on a night he flew all day with a day game the next day all against the worst team in the league was a bad thing to do. Also some reporters have suggested the bum didn't even WANT to play. We won the game he sat; we won the game he played. We won.

 

I also can't believe some Sox fans are to the point they second guess after victories. It used to be that winning the game shut everybody up. Not some Sox fans. Winning erases all second guessing or it should, at least.

You guys all played sports. Didn't you just feel GREAT when your team won? No matter if you went 0-for-4 or in basketball had six points and six turnovers on a night the team won?? I felt great at getting the W and still do as a fan of the Sox.

 

The manager always gets the last laugh when there's a W.

Edited September 2, 2010 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

It was on CSN yesterday, maybe check their website?

 

The fact that Cora and Manny walked off laughing together is awesome. I think Manny is really going to fit in well, and hopefully he sees the task at hand and he and Ozzie become an incredible ass-kicking tandem and he hangs around next year as well.

 

 

favorite post of the thread. I'm hoping ozzie and manny become the best of friends and manny ends up WANTING to stay in chicago which i could see happen. If he actually likes it here he might take less money to stay here

[caulfield12]

Greg, FWIW, even though this is the Manny Ramirez thread....you might have a point.

 

There's a new paradigm shift, where the unemployment rate and frozen/stagnant wages and workers being asked to work 50% harder for the same salary or underemployed isn't being given equal importance with GDP growth...something like 60% of Americans would now be in serious trouble if they lost their primary source of income for 3 months or longer.

 

OTOH, the "general" economy is basically in a malaise, there was growth until we hit the 3rd quarter but now that the home buyer credits are expiring and credit is tighter, especially for small business loans, things are looking bleak to many Americans. If you work for a bank or are in the Top 10-15% of Americans in terms of income, you're doing just fine, and haven't been greatly affected.

 

Still persisting is the general feeling that this generation will be worse off than their parents, that many won't have enough money to retire or that Social Security won't exist in its current form or they'll have to work longer or move in with relatives...that neither the stock market nor housing is a safe or automatic slam dunk for future earnings, people are really just trying to pay down their debts and cut down on spending, but that obviously is going to slow down the economy, because you can't both save and spend simultaneously, and the rich of the US can't sustain the entire economy, either.

 

Some have argued that we should have just allowed the housing market to completely fail...not rescuing any homeowners, but the problem is that the banks are still not willing to take those losses onto their balance books, so the housing market is basically paralyzed with those holding money waiting for it to fall further and getting a bit greedy before they buy depreciating properties and those whose houses are worth less than the loan values wondering how long it makes sense to hold out when they've seen so many of their friends and neighbors simply walk away.

 

 

 

Back to Ramirez. This is the only way I can think to put it...let's say your army wins a major battle, you'd say that you can't question the general/President/manager because no matter what happened in the battle, you won, right?

 

The problem is that in winning the battle, maybe you lost half your troops or committed atrocities against a civilian population to the point where even though you win every single battle, you lose the war, which would be like finishing in 2nd place.

 

Robert E. Lee won almost every single battle he fought in the Civil War, and yet his troops were so weakened with attrition and losses over time that he was finally forced to "go for broke" at Gettysburg with Pickett's Charge and that was ostensibly the end of the war.

 

Or to make a bigger example...the US developed the atomic bomb and won World War II. We won, right? But let's say 100 years from now, the world is destroyed by a nuclear war, maybe we didn't really win after all. Yes, you could argue someone else more dangerous (like the Nazis) might have developed the nuclear bomb first or it would have been developed eventually, but I'm not sure all the scientists involved with the project would feel like they "WON" a great victory those first 8 days in August, 1945.

 

Or let's say you play a football player too long in a blistering hot August game where your team wins but the kid ends up having a heart attack the next week on the practice field...I don't think you can automatically say when you win, you're right. Many times we have lost games that Ozzie has managed well, we just lost because the other team had better players or executed.

 

To look at every win or loss in black and white is counter-intuitive. Yes, managers can win and lose games, but it's overstated after each game to say Ozzie won the game or lost the game or he was right/wrong based on the final result.

Edited September 2, 2010 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Great post caufield. The economy really worries me. I have talked to too many individuals in all facets of the workplace who have had pay cut or frozen and have had to work much more, all in professional jobs.

Management is giving out horrible performance reviews in hopes the higher paid individuals quit.

This is very un-American. And it is concerning.

[Steve9347]

Guys.

 

Loving the analysis, but please limit that talk to other threads. I want to come here and slurp Manny, not become depressed about the state of the economy.

[StrangeSox]

We won all 3 games which means they were well managed games.

We lose they are poorly managed games.

 

Jesus Christ please go take an introductory class in logic and statistics before I have a meltdown.

[NorthSideSox72]

Guys, if you want to talk about the economy or politics, take it to the Filibuster.

 

And my g*d Caufield, did you really just make a post that somehow involved Manny Ramirez, Gross Domestic Product, Robert E. Lee and the atomic bomb?

 

[LittleHurt05]

I also can't believe some Sox fans are to the point they second guess after victories. It used to be that winning the game shut everybody up. Not some Sox fans. Winning erases all second guessing or it should, at least.

You guys all played sports. Didn't you just feel GREAT when your team won? No matter if you went 0-for-4 or in basketball had six points and six turnovers on a night the team won?? I felt great at getting the W and still do as a fan of the Sox.

 

The manager always gets the last laugh when there's a W.

 

No one is saying they are upset that the Sox won and aren't happy with a sweep. Just cause you won the game doesn't mean you can't do better.

 

Using your example, if you have six TOs in a basketball game, yes you would still happy that your team won. But wouldn't you also be asking yourself how can I improve? How can I prevent myself from committing six turnovers again and giving my team a better chance to win?

 

Everyone here wants the Sox to win every game and win the WS. When they see something going on that they think hurts their chances to do that, they are gonna question it. Even if a game was won, it doesn't mean that certain stuff can't be improved on. If Danks gives up 10 runs, but the Sox won 12-10, do you think Cooper high fives him saying "Way to pitch out there Johnny, you won us the game! Keep up the good work!" f*** no, he will go over everything with him to fix what went wrong, even though they won the game.

[Steve9347]

Guys, if you want to talk about the economy or politics, take it to the Filibuster.

 

And my g*d Caufield, did you really just make a post that somehow involved Manny Ramirez, Gross Domestic Product, Robert E. Lee and the atomic bomb?

The man does deserve some props for that.

[greg775]

Jesus Christ please go take an introductory class in logic and statistics before I have a meltdown.

 

My class in Winning 101 was taught by Al Davis.

"Just Win, Baby."

If you win, the guy in charge is doin' something right that day and gets the last laugh on all second guessers.