MANNYPALOOZA 2-0!!! SOX WIN!!!

[Steve9347]

Just because you're not sure what you have in Hudson doesnt mean you trade him for that value. Edwin may have held alot of value to the White Sox, but that doesnt mean he had alot of value on the market. Thus, it was a fine idea to trade for him, just not at the price we paid. Obviously, you disagree, Im just saying I wouldve offered Holmberg and one of Flowers/Morel/Danks2, and maybe a throw in lower level guy.

 

When you consider what Jackson makes next year, and the fact we didnt receive any financial help, I just cannot agree with the trade for what we gave up. Jackson's value was not worth that much. Trading Hudson, your one legitimate young MLB starter ready to start now, will hurt you in the long run because now you have a $54 million starting rotation next year, and if you trade one of those starters you will ahve to fill that hole somehow. Thus, youre forcing yourself to trade for a starter or have to sign an overpriced FA.

When you consider the pressure he was under had Dan Hudson pissing down his leg and the fact that we're probably 7+ games out right now without that trade, then I don't see how anyone could STILL be complaining.

[bigruss]

When you consider the pressure he was under had Dan Hudson pissing down his leg and the fact that we're probably 7+ games out right now without that trade, then I don't see how anyone could STILL be complaining.

Goddamn, I never said acquiring him was bad, Ive been happy with getting Jackson the whole time. I just dont think he was worth what we paid, and I think it will hurt us financially in the next few years, big time.

[BigSqwert]

Goddamn, I never said acquiring him was bad, Ive been happy with getting Jackson the whole time. I just dont think he was worth what we paid, and I think it will hurt us financially in the next few years, big time.

If he helps propel us into the post season this year or next, something I think we have a better chance of doing with him over Hudson, then that financial impact isn't as bad.

Edited September 1, 2010 by BigSqwert

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Just because you're not sure what you have in Hudson doesnt mean you trade him for that value. Edwin may have held alot of value to the White Sox, but that doesnt mean he had alot of value on the market. Thus, it was a fine idea to trade for him, just not at the price we paid. Obviously, you disagree, Im just saying I wouldve offered Holmberg and one of Flowers/Morel/Danks2, and maybe a throw in lower level guy.

 

One, you don't know that. That is simply your opinion.

 

Two, the D-Backs probably would have said no. Do you honestly think Kenny started the negotiations by using his best trade chip? That's generally not how that stuff starts off.

[bigruss]

One, you don't know that. That is simply your opinion.

 

Two, the D-Backs probably would have said no. Do you honestly think Kenny started the negotiations by using his best trade chip? That's generally not how that stuff starts off.

One, it is opinion based off of the recent value of prospects and struggling, well paid (but not ridiculous) starters

 

Two, then you find someone else to trade with. Just like with Dunn, you dont like the price because it hurts you too much in terms of the value your giving up, you dont do it. Yes, getting Dunn wouldve helped tremendously, but he wouldve cost alot. Same with Jackson, the value we gave may not hurt now, but in the offeseason when KW is crying "50 cents" again and we have a D Wise, Kotsay, or Erstad in our lineup because we couldnt afford something better you can look back at this trade and realize why.

[bighurt574]

Just because you're not sure what you have in Hudson doesnt mean you trade him for that value. Edwin may have held alot of value to the White Sox, but that doesnt mean he had alot of value on the market. Thus, it was a fine idea to trade for him, just not at the price we paid. Obviously, you disagree, Im just saying I wouldve offered Holmberg and one of Flowers/Morel/Danks2, and maybe a throw in lower level guy.

 

How do you know we didn't try? I doubt we came out of the gate offering up Hudson. In the end, Kenny obviously though Jackson was worth giving up Hudson if that's what he had to do.

Edited September 1, 2010 by bighurt574

[bigruss]

How do you know we didn't try? I doubt we came out of the gate offering up Hudson.

Look at above post, if the price is too high you say forget it, just like we did with Dunn. THe DBacks are in enough financial trouble that they wouldve been forced to trade Jackson.

[bigruss]

How do you know we didn't try? I doubt we came out of the gate offering up Hudson. In the end, Kenny obviously though Jackson was worth giving up Hudson if that's what he had to do.

And that's fine if KW thought that, he is the GM and he has all the say in this matter. But as a fan, I dont have to blindly follow and believe in all of his moves. I personally believe that this trade put the Sox in a worse position next year considering the financial state of the team and the void of young, cheap replacements for expensive players.

[Steve9347]

Goddamn, I never said acquiring him was bad, Ive been happy with getting Jackson the whole time. I just dont think he was worth what we paid, and I think it will hurt us financially in the next few years, big time.

But you don't know what was requested. I'm sure KW tried to get him without Hudson. He had to pay the price to get a guy Coop believed in...

[bigruss]

But you don't know what was requested. I'm sure KW tried to get him without Hudson. He had to pay the price to get a guy Coop believed in...

And what? Walker didnt believe in DUnn?

[Steve9347]

And what? Walker didnt believe in DUnn?

E-Jax >> Dunn

 

Also, from what I gathered while watching The Club, Kenny was the one who wouldn't part with Jackson.

[bigruss]

E-Jax >> Dunn

 

Also, from what I gathered while watching The Club, Kenny was the one who wouldn't part with Jackson.

Opinion, especially considering the way he was pitching up until the trade, and the instant boost that Dunn would give this offense.

 

Once again, KW is the GM, this is his trade, that is fine, I obviously dont have any say in the matter. I just see this trade coming back to haunt us, as soon as justa few months when the offseason starts and we cry poor and have to sit through another bulls*** player starting.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

And that's fine if KW thought that, he is the GM and he has all the say in this matter. But as a fan, I dont have to blindly follow and believe in all of his moves. I personally believe that this trade put the Sox in a worse position next year considering the financial state of the team and the void of young, cheap replacements for expensive players.

 

A rotation of Danks/Peavy/Floyd/Buehrle/Jackson for a full season could be simply incredible.

[chw42]

A rotation of Danks/Peavy/Floyd/Buehrle/Jackson for a full season could be simply incredible.

 

And if Jackson pitches anything close to the way he has with us, he'd be the #1 starter.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

And if Jackson pitches anything close to the way he has with us, he'd be the #1 starter.

 

Well I was just stating it like such if we were to place Danks as the #1. Obviously MB would be the worst (imagine that, wow...) of the group but you can't have him and Danks back to back in the rotation

[Steve9347]

I've heard rumors that Peavy might not be ready to pitch next year... am I crazy?

[BigSqwert]

I've heard rumors that Peavy might not be ready to pitch next year... am I crazy?

Rumors from where? I read his progress was coming along just fine.

[Chisoxfn]

I haven't heard one thing about Peavy not pitching. Peavy is supposed to begin throwing shortly and is expected to be on track to be starting spring training games. That could obviously all get pushed back, but from what has been reported Peavy's recovery has been fine thus far.

 

In terms of Edwin, the good news is, he'll get an extra days rest since we have Thursday off.

[caulfield12]

Opinion, especially considering the way he was pitching up until the trade, and the instant boost that Dunn would give this offense.

 

Once again, KW is the GM, this is his trade, that is fine, I obviously dont have any say in the matter. I just see this trade coming back to haunt us, as soon as justa few months when the offseason starts and we cry poor and have to sit through another bulls*** player starting.

 

 

But how many hitters recently have come from the NL and just started raking right away in the AL without any type of transition period?

 

 

 

 

[Steve9347]

Rumors from where? I read his progress was coming along just fine.

I'm sure it was just osmosis through people b****ing. I'll look forward to Peavy next year then!

[caulfield12]

I haven't heard one thing about Peavy not pitching. Peavy is supposed to begin throwing shortly and is expected to be on track to be starting spring training games. That could obviously all get pushed back, but from what has been reported Peavy's recovery has been fine thus far.

 

In terms of Edwin, the good news is, he'll get an extra days rest since we have Thursday off.

 

 

If Garcia for some reason got blasted his next two starts, I wonder if they'd consider going back to the 4 man rotation like they did at the end of 2008?

 

At that point, there'd be about 25 games remaining...but I just don't see them taking the risk with Floyd, Jackson and Danks of putting that much wear and tear on their arms. We already saw the aftereffects in the 2006 and 2009 seasons.

 

And, even if they did make the post-season, the odds of being able to successfully sustain those pitchers throughout the postseason would be pretty low.

Edited September 1, 2010 by caulfield12

[BigSqwert]

If Garcia for some reason got blasted his next two starts, I wonder if they'd consider going back to the 4 man rotation like they did at the end of 2008?

 

At that point, there'd be about 25 games remaining...but I just don't see them taking the risk with Floyd, Jackson and Danks of putting that much wear and tear on their arms. We already saw the aftereffects in the 2006 and 2009 seasons.

 

And, even if they did make the post-season, the odds of being able to successfully sustain those pitchers throughout the postseason would be pretty low.

Balta has posted several times the negative consequences of losing a day of rest for the starting pitchers. Without exception each of them see their ERA go up with less rest.

[iamshack]

Just because you're not sure what you have in Hudson doesnt mean you trade him for that value. Edwin may have held alot of value to the White Sox, but that doesnt mean he had alot of value on the market. Thus, it was a fine idea to trade for him, just not at the price we paid. Obviously, you disagree, Im just saying I wouldve offered Holmberg and one of Flowers/Morel/Danks2, and maybe a throw in lower level guy.

 

When you consider what Jackson makes next year, and the fact we didnt receive any financial help, I just cannot agree with the trade for what we gave up. Jackson's value was not worth that much. Trading Hudson, your one legitimate young MLB starter ready to start now, will hurt you in the long run because now you have a $54 million starting rotation next year, and if you trade one of those starters you will ahve to fill that hole somehow. Thus, youre forcing yourself to trade for a starter or have to sign an overpriced FA.

You would have offered Holmberg and something less, and they would have said no thanks and moved on.

 

You really don't know what Jackson's value was, Russ. I think you forget that he's still only 26, still viewed as having very good stuff, a very good arm, and had succeeded in the AL recently. Simply because he struggled with AZ for half a season didn't destroy his value and force the DBacks to give him away.

 

As of right now, it seems as though you and some others who were most vocal about the trade when it was made simply want to continue complaining no matter how well Edwin pitches for us.

[Balta1701]

I'm sure it was just osmosis through people b****ing. I'll look forward to Peavy next year then!

I think it's sort of a general worry that his rehab will take longer than expected since his injury is uncommon for pitchers. Last report though had him beginning strengthening/rotation exercises on the shoulder and on track to start throwing exercises by Jan 1.

[Steve9347]

I think it's sort of a general worry that his rehab will take longer than expected since his injury is uncommon for pitchers. Last report though had him beginning strengthening/rotation exercises on the shoulder and on track to start throwing exercises by Jan 1.

Awesome news.