How can anyone...

[BigSqwert]

If you pick Thome over Kotsay....

 

There is no reason to even read past that since no one with half a brain would want to pick Kotsay over Thome no matter what reasons you throw out there.

[Marty34]

There is no reason to even read past that since no one with half a brain would want to pick Kotsay over Thome no matter what reasons you throw out there.

 

 

Kotsay and Santos over Thome.

[TheBigHurt]

I think most fans as you say, "don't care that much."

 

So why use those fans as an example? Why try to use fans that don't really understand or even care to understand the game from a deep perspective in trying to defend Ozzie? Where's the logic?

 

[kjshoe04]

So why use those fans as an example? Why try to use fans that don't really understand or even care to understand the game from a deep perspective in trying to defend Ozzie? Where's the logic?

Those fans pay to see the team and there are more of them than there are us die hards. I think having Ozzie as a manager does help keep the team more relevant to be honest.

[TheBigHurt]

Those fans pay to see the team and there are more of them than there are us die hards. I think having Ozzie as a manager does help keep the team more relevant to be honest.

 

I used to actually feel the same way... before Ozzie started insulting his fan base and throwing players under the bus. Now I just look at it as a joke. I hate the way he manages but I always liked his comedic attitude on the podium. Now I can't even respect that.

[kjshoe04]

I used to actually feel the same way... before Ozzie started insulting his fan base and throwing players under the bus. Now I just look at it as a joke. I hate the way he manages but I always liked his comedic attitude on the podium. Now I can't even respect that.

I'm on the fence with Ozzie. I like him and think he gets alot out of his players but he makes some horrible moves out there day in and day out. I really think if we drop him the White Sox would completely drop off alot of radars again.

[TheBigHurt]

I'm on the fence with Ozzie. I like him and think he gets alot out of his players but he makes some horrible moves out there day in and day out. I really think if we drop him the White Sox would completely drop off alot of radars again.

 

I suppose that's true but I think if Ozzie hadn't brought us the WS title he would've been gone by now. I honestly think the organization puts up with his attitude simply because that sticks in their head. Blind loyalty as it has been said before. That's just what I think, though.

[kjshoe04]

I suppose that's true but I think if Ozzie hadn't brought us the WS title he would've been gone by now. I honestly think the organization puts up with his attitude simply because that sticks in their head. Blind loyalty as it has been said before. That's just what I think, though.

agreed

[gosox41]

Continue to defend Ozzie Guillen? He's a stubborn idiot who has no business coaching a contender. He consistently makes bonehead decisions with the lineup, the bullpen and on the basepaths. Every year he has a love affair with an absolute whiffer at the plate, while simultaneously withholding chances from young guys with high potential. He stifles development and seemingly has no ability to fire his team up in crucial moments. For the last several years we've been a team that really really struggles to get those crucial hits with RISP. It seems that so many of our wins either come at the hands of excellent pitching, or a total offensive blowout. We rarely seem to be able to just stay ahead of the other team, scoring after they score to keep in the game. He's loud and obnoxious with the media, telling sox fans to go f**k themselves, and a lot of guys don't seem to want to play for him (like Berkman). I don't care if we win the world series this year, I want Ozzie gone.

 

"Ozzie Ball" has just turned into "run into outs and baby your best players while paying no heed to stats or common sense."

 

I personally love Kenny & think he's one of the best GMs in the bigs. Keep KW, fire Ozzie.

 

 

While Ozzie has his moments, do you really want to take a chance on finding another Jerry Manuel or Terry Bevington?

 

Ozzie is fine. Every manager makes mistakes. I'm sure he had his reason or stats. It's not all favoritism.

 

The only reason I want to see Ozzie go is because off all the off the field crap. It annoys me. I'm tired of hearing about Twitter and fighting with KW over whose son gets a bigger signing bonus.

 

The on the field stuff doesn't bother me. I am rather enjoying this offense. Remember last late Aug and Sept when this offense couldn't score any runs?

 

 

Bob

 

Bob

[Paulie4Pres]

The only thing that drives me nuts about Ozzie, is him taking the bat out of the hands of guys that are raking, to lay down a sacrifice bunt. Sac bunts that often times SUCK. When everyone on the team is hitting the ball well, especially during that game, you MAKE THE PITCHER GET YOU OUT. You don't hand them outs. Drives me NUTS. He belongs in the NL managing like that, where he can have his pitchers lay down sac bunts all game long.

Edited September 7, 2010 by CQMVP

[Ranger]

If the Sox beat out the Twins, Ozzie deserves AL Manager of the Year for the simple (yet incredibly important) reason that he held this team together in May when almost everyone in the media, fandom and perhaps even front office had written them off.

 

As for today's game:

 

--Some people ripped Ozzie for sitting Manny and playing Kotsay. But after the game we learned Paulie had a bad back, so Ozzie was right to have Kotsay play first. The choice Ozzie had to make was Paulie vs. Manny for DH, not Kotsay vs. Manny. And Ozzie did use Manny beautifully well in the 8th with one out. He scared Francona, who panicked and went to his closer Papelbon for a *five out save*. Eventually, Papelbon tired and gave up the game. Give Ozzie a little credit for that.

 

--I was nervous too when Ozzie left in Burls to face VMart, but our bullpen was not at full strength after yesterday's DH sweep. If you want to see what can happen when you switch pitchers too often, look back at Thursday night's Twins/Tigers game, in which the much esteemed Gardenhire blew through his entire bullpen and three starters, and then had no one to start the next night except an emergency AAA call-up. Now that's a prime example of mishandling pitchers.

 

That's a very good post. I think people forget the shape the pen is in, even after having a couple of days off. What many fans don't realize is the number of relievers on a daily basis that teams try to avoid using and they sometimes don't realize just how quickly a pen can get burned out (like elgonzo said, ask Ron Gardenhire). Yesterday, they did not want to use Sale or Santos again, and they ABSOLUTELY did not want to go to Jenks. And with no Putz, that meant lining up the final 2 innings plus with maybe Thornton (who had not pitched in over 2 weeks) and somebody else. Martinez, by the way, had already popped up twice and flied out once to Buehrle in yesterday's game leading up to the HR. It wasn't like he had been killing him on that day, anyway.

 

O know the argument will be made that this is a pennant race, etc., etc., etc. But this is not the final week...the end of the season is not 'til Oct. 3rd. This is still a time to be careful with the pen and monitor it's usage.

 

I think people just get so angry with certain managerial decisions (and, yes, it does happen everywhere) that they don't even really to take the time to try to understand WHY they're making a move that doesn't make sense on the surface.

[kitekrazy]

It pains me to think of all the extra wins we would have had if another manager was here to not make the team hit .200 from April-June 10th, or make the starting pitchers not suck ass for 2 months, or make the bullpen not collapse. DAMN YOU TO HELL OZZZZIEIEIEE!!!!!

 

Its comical how upset you guys are getting over the most insignificant coach of the 3 big sports. Save your outrage for the disgrace that is the Bears coaching and front office that legitimately destroys that team.

 

 

Oh no, there goes someone throwing logic around here.

[gatnom]

Oh no, there goes someone throwing logic around here.

 

Looks more like a straw man and getting off topic to me.

[Mr. Wedmesday]

Any discussion of Ozzie's relative strengths and weaknesses has to take into account how bizarre this year has been.

 

You can't pin the blame for the entire first half on Ozzie, just as you cannot give him all the credit for the entire second half. This team has been beyond streaky.

 

Has Ozzie made bad on-field decisions this season? Absolutely.what manager hasn't? Has Ozzie made the right decisions this year, only to have usually reliabe players fail horribly? Absolutely, show me a team that hasn't happened to.

 

The result is love/hate for Ozzie that has whipsawed as violently as the team's performance.

 

As tired as I am of his truly idiotic rants, his feud with KW, his kids and all the other drama, he is the face of the franchise, and like it or not he keeps this team relevant in a town where the odds are always against that.

 

How many other managers are nationally recognized by their first name alone? Ozzie sells tickets and draws national media attention--remembering that if you're the White Sox there is no such thing as bad publicity.

 

He has certainly cost us some games--how many is for people smarter than me to figure out--but he also has his team back in a race that most of us considered a totally lost cause as recently as the ASB.

 

I am not defending his inexplicable fondness for Kotsay or his part in management's inexplicable but collective decision to let Thome go.

 

I'm just saying this team is still alive and actually showing more late-game resilience than we've seen in years.

 

You can certainly blame Ozzie for the Sox trailing the Twins by 3.5 games, but then you gotta give him some of the credit for not trailing by 13.5, without Peavy and with an erratic Jenks.

 

Oh, and speaking of managers we love to hate, "Gardy" is at the top of my list. He comes across as smug, arrogant and is hailed as a genius when in fact any of us could win with that lineup--even without Morneau and Nathan. And he plays dirty against us.

 

I'd much rather beat on him than Ozzie.

 

Now, could we please just get on with it and win another World Series?

Edited September 7, 2010 by 11and1

[greg775]

I used to actually feel the same way... before Ozzie started insulting his fan base and throwing players under the bus. Now I just look at it as a joke. I hate the way he manages but I always liked his comedic attitude on the podium. Now I can't even respect that.

 

Oh come on. Ozzie hurting your feelings? You're not used to Ozzie by now?

Insulting the fanbase? That one deal got NO PLAY anywhere but on this board. You're hatred of Ozzie to me is as old as my love of Ozzie/Jenks to others.

[Marty34]

I suppose that's true but I think if Ozzie hadn't brought us the WS title he would've been gone by now. I honestly think the organization puts up with his attitude simply because that sticks in their head. Blind loyalty as it has been said before. That's just what I think, though.

 

The Strat-O-Matic crowd is at it again.

 

[Kyyle23]

Any discussion of Ozzie's relative strengths and weaknesses has to take into account how bizarre this year has been.

 

You can't pin the blame for the entire first half on Ozzie, just as you cannot give him all the credit for the entire second half. This team has been beyond streaky.

 

Has Ozzie made bad on-field decisions this season? Absolutely.what manager hasn't? Has Ozzie made the right decisions this year, only to have usually reliabe players fail horribly? Absolutely, show me a team that hasn't happened to.

 

The result is love/hate for Ozzie that has whipsawed as violently as the team's performance.

 

As tired as I am of his truly idiotic rants, his feud with KW, his kids and all the other drama, he is the face of the franchise, and like it or not he keeps this team relevant in a town where the odds are always against that.

 

How many other managers are nationally recognized by their first name alone? Ozzie sells tickets and draws national media attention--remembering that if you're the White Sox there is no such thing as bad publicity.

 

He has certainly cost us some games--how many is for people smarter than me to figure out--but he also has his team back in a race that most of us considered a totally lost cause as recently as the ASB.

 

I am not defending his inexplicable fondness for Kotsay or his part in management's inexplicable but collective decision to let Thome go.

 

I'm just saying this team is still alive and actually showing more late-game resilience than we've seen in years.

 

You can certainly blame Ozzie for the Sox trailing the Twins by 3.5 games, but then you gotta give him some of the credit for not trailing by 13.5, without Peavy and with an erratic Jenks.

 

Oh, and speaking of managers we love to hate, "Gardy" is at the top of my list. He comes across as smug, arrogant and is hailed as a genius when in fact any of us could win with that lineup--even without Morneau and Nathan. And he plays dirty against us.

 

I'd much rather beat on him than Ozzie.

 

Now, could we please just get on with it and win another World Series?

 

 

Damn. I love this post

[NorthSideSox72]

Any discussion of Ozzie's relative strengths and weaknesses has to take into account how bizarre this year has been.

 

You can't pin the blame for the entire first half on Ozzie, just as you cannot give him all the credit for the entire second half. This team has been beyond streaky.

 

Has Ozzie made bad on-field decisions this season? Absolutely.what manager hasn't? Has Ozzie made the right decisions this year, only to have usually reliabe players fail horribly? Absolutely, show me a team that hasn't happened to.

 

The result is love/hate for Ozzie that has whipsawed as violently as the team's performance.

 

As tired as I am of his truly idiotic rants, his feud with KW, his kids and all the other drama, he is the face of the franchise, and like it or not he keeps this team relevant in a town where the odds are always against that.

 

How many other managers are nationally recognized by their first name alone? Ozzie sells tickets and draws national media attention--remembering that if you're the White Sox there is no such thing as bad publicity.

 

He has certainly cost us some games--how many is for people smarter than me to figure out--but he also has his team back in a race that most of us considered a totally lost cause as recently as the ASB.

 

I am not defending his inexplicable fondness for Kotsay or his part in management's inexplicable but collective decision to let Thome go.

 

I'm just saying this team is still alive and actually showing more late-game resilience than we've seen in years.

 

You can certainly blame Ozzie for the Sox trailing the Twins by 3.5 games, but then you gotta give him some of the credit for not trailing by 13.5, without Peavy and with an erratic Jenks.

 

Oh, and speaking of managers we love to hate, "Gardy" is at the top of my list. He comes across as smug, arrogant and is hailed as a genius when in fact any of us could win with that lineup--even without Morneau and Nathan. And he plays dirty against us.

 

I'd much rather beat on him than Ozzie.

 

Now, could we please just get on with it and win another World Series?

Great post. I may not agree with every single thing in it, but great perspective.

 

[southsider2k5]

Kotsay and Santos over Thome.

 

That actually is a good point. Even if Thome came back, you still had to have Kotsay on the roster, because you need someone who can play 1B. You also still had to have Andruw on the team, because you need someone who can play CF. Thome on the team would have most likely meant no Santos.

[NorthSideSox72]

That actually is a good point. Even if Thome came back, you still had to have Kotsay on the roster, because you need someone who can play 1B. You also still had to have Andruw on the team, because you need someone who can play CF. Thome on the team would have most likely meant no Santos.

Teahen played 1B yesterday, has played it before, and is perfectly capable of the rare appearance over there. There really is no need to have Kotsay on this team if he is going to be useless with the bat.

 

[Kyyle23]

Teahen played 1B yesterday, has played it before, and is perfectly capable of the rare appearance over there. There really is no need to have Kotsay on this team if he is going to be useless with the bat.

 

at least as of late Kotsay hasnt been totally useless with the bat. He actually has been getting some hits here and there, and some of them have actually meant something in the grand scheme of things. The last series in Detroit, for example.

[Balta1701]

Teahen played 1B yesterday, has played it before, and is perfectly capable of the rare appearance over there. There really is no need to have Kotsay on this team if he is going to be useless with the bat.

Well, they did really, really want to try to make Teahen into a regular, everyday 3b coming into the season...which was why they signed him to that contract...they thought if they gave him the position full time he'd improve at it more...and they were proven wrong.

 

On paper it sorta makes sense...but overall it's a mistake compounding a bigger mistake.

[mmmmmbeeer]

My issue with Ozzie is not his poor decisions, every manager has those, it's with his strategies and fondness of NL style baseball. A poor decision is leaving MB in to face VMart....I expect a manager to choose incorrectly some times. Sacrificing Juan Pierre to second CONSISTENTLY throughout this season late in games is a strategy, not a spur of the moment decision. Sacrifice bunts, stealing bases with little to no regard for the opposing battery, these are strategies. A rotating DH is a strategy. Sunday lineups are strategy.

 

We aren't in the NL and, until Ozzie gets this through his thick head, I will continue to look at him as a manager who not only is a poor strategic manager but also a buffoon who refuses to admit the faults of his strategies.

[BigSqwert]

191 outs given up.

[gatnom]

That actually is a good point. Even if Thome came back, you still had to have Kotsay on the roster, because you need someone who can play 1B. You also still had to have Andruw on the team, because you need someone who can play CF. Thome on the team would have most likely meant no Santos.

 

Did we need Randy Williams?