How can anyone...

[Kyyle23]

Did we need Randy Williams?

 

starting the year with only one lefthander in the bullpen(Thornton) would have been pretty risky. IIRC Threets started the year injured which is why he didnt break camp with the team. I wouldnt of minded too much if Randy Williams didnt make the team out of camp, but I understand the thinking.

 

Plus, the thinking in January wasnt Thome vs Randy Williams

[BigSqwert]

Did we need Randy Williams?

[ScottyDo]

191 outs given up.

Are you gonna bother counting the benefits of runners moving into scoring position? I'm not saying I love running into outs, I really don't, but it's a risk/reward game, and you're only counting risk. Seems pretty angled to me.

 

Just a for-instance, a stolen base late in the game got us the win yesterday. Just sayin'.

[BigSqwert]

Are you gonna bother counting the benefits of runners moving into scoring position?

 

Nope

[ScottyDo]

Nope

Mkay, just checkin

[Balta1701]

Just a for-instance, a stolen base late in the game got us the win yesterday. Just sayin'.

You mean we didn't bunt?

[greg775]

191 outs given up.

 

17 games over .500. Still in hunt for WC berth.

[southsider2k5]

191 outs given up.

 

This is the equal to 27 out of 31 for Bobby Jenks.

[greg775]

This is the equal to 27 out of 31 for Bobby Jenks.

 

I'd still give Bobby a C or B- for the season. He's not been as bad as some say.

 

[hogan873]

I'd still give Bobby a C or B- for the season. He's not been as bad as some say.

I actually agree with you here. He has not been horrible overall, he's just had a few horrible outings. He's also had some great outings. It was his lack of consistency that really hurt, and what made me throw things at my TV.

[SI1020]

Im pretty sure he would be gone if he didnt.

That's just not true. The Peter Principle is alive and well in all facets of life, including baseball.

 

[Kyyle23]

That's just not true. The Peter Principle is alive and well in all facets of life, including baseball.

 

OK sure, a guy with no managerial skills whatsoever has managed to make the playoffs twice and win a world series, while also managing to have a season in which his team was dead in the water 2 weeks before the allstar break and now is within striking distance of the playoffs. You are right, its the Peter Principle. The White Sox have been winning despite Ozzie for 6 years

[SI1020]

OK sure, a guy with no managerial skills whatsoever has managed to make the playoffs twice and win a world series, while also managing to have a season in which his team was dead in the water 2 weeks before the allstar break and now is within striking distance of the playoffs. You are right, its the Peter Principle. The White Sox have been winning despite Ozzie for 6 years

I was responding to the idea that if someone were incompetent they would be gone. Just not true. Not in baseball. Not in life. As for Ozzie, I think he does some things well and others (notably in game strategy) not so well. The penchant for angry drama leaves me cold too. The Sox were a lot like a bad soap opera this year. Win and all will be forgotten. I remember the A's in the 70's, a very dysfunctional unit that won three straight WS. No need to be so defensive. You like him. I don't, but still recognize his strengths. I'd take him over the three managers that preceeded him in a heartbeat. I know as long as the current owner stays he more than likely keeps his job no matter what.

 

[fathom]

I'd still give Bobby a C or B- for the season. He's not been as bad as some say.

 

You're right, he's been worse. His blown save in the first Twins series after the ASB seemed to change the entire momentum of the season for the Twins. Also, his inability to stay healthy during the 2nd half of the season led to the increased usage of Thornton and Putz, which could have contributed to their ineffectiveness and injuries. Let's just hope Sale manages to stay healthy and avoids a serious injury.

[elgonzo4sox]

That's a very good post. I think people forget the shape the pen is in, even after having a couple of days off. What many fans don't realize is the number of relievers on a daily basis that teams try to avoid using and they sometimes don't realize just how quickly a pen can get burned out (like elgonzo said, ask Ron Gardenhire). Yesterday, they did not want to use Sale or Santos again, and they ABSOLUTELY did not want to go to Jenks. And with no Putz, that meant lining up the final 2 innings plus with maybe Thornton (who had not pitched in over 2 weeks) and somebody else. Martinez, by the way, had already popped up twice and flied out once to Buehrle in yesterday's game leading up to the HR. It wasn't like he had been killing him on that day, anyway.

 

O know the argument will be made that this is a pennant race, etc., etc., etc. But this is not the final week...the end of the season is not 'til Oct. 3rd. This is still a time to be careful with the pen and monitor it's usage.

 

I think people just get so angry with certain managerial decisions (and, yes, it does happen everywhere) that they don't even really to take the time to try to understand WHY they're making a move that doesn't make sense on the surface.

 

Thanks, Ranger. Your show is a beacon of sanity in an often chaotic world. This has been a crazy season, with major highs and lows - let's hope it ends on a high!

[elgonzo4sox]

Teahen played 1B yesterday, has played it before, and is perfectly capable of the rare appearance over there. There really is no need to have Kotsay on this team if he is going to be useless with the bat.

 

Wow - some Teahen love on this board, for how he plays in the infield (albeit first base) - I'm shocked!

 

Back to the 25-man opening day roster: if you drop Kotsay to add Thome, then you have three bench players: Vizquel, Jones, and Nix. If Teahen were Paulie's backup at first, then when Teahen went down we would have seen a heckuva lot more of Dayan Viciedo, at both 3rd and 1st. As it was, in the limited time he played, it appeared that opposing pitchers figured him out, or he lost his plate discipline, and he struck out a huge percentage of the time towards the end of his stay. And he wasn't exactly stellar in the field. If Viciedo had been exposed more and earlier, it would have forced the Sox onto the trade or scrap heap market for a backup third baseman or corner infielder.

 

Again, this is where the Twins' apparently stronger supply of major-league-ready AAA talent helps them. They know that if someone goes down, they likely can bring someone up from the minors to fill the gap (isn't this what everyone always says about the Twins?). And that gives them the ability to put a part-time "DH only" guy like Thome on their 25 man active roster. I know I'm one of the few, but I still agree with Ozzie (and KW, who allowed it to happen) that, when you look at the big picture including the supply of major-league-ready talent from the AAA level, that we couldn't afford a "DH only" guy on the 25 man roster this year, with an aging Paulie and questionable Quentin. But now that we're past the Sept. 1 roster expansion and headed into the playoffs, we can not only afford it but benefit from it.

 

[BigSqwert]

Thanks, Ranger. Your show is a beacon of sanity in an often chaotic world. This has been a crazy season, with major highs and lows - let's hope it ends on a high!

Beacon of sanity? He has been preaching on how the DH will never really matter. We get a real DH and win 7 straight.

[SoxAce]

Beacon of sanity? He has been preaching on how the DH will never really matter. We get a real DH and win 7 straight.

 

On posts on a message board, he has not had a good year (said alot of stuff that did not make sense). On the radio show.. I haven't heard him, but judging on what people say here, he's been very good and we know how we as sox fans can get so I'll take posters here words for it..

[Kyyle23]

I was responding to the idea that if someone were incompetent they would be gone. Just not true. Not in baseball. Not in life. As for Ozzie, I think he does some things well and others (notably in game strategy) not so well. The penchant for angry drama leaves me cold too. The Sox were a lot like a bad soap opera this year. Win and all will be forgotten. I remember the A's in the 70's, a very dysfunctional unit that won three straight WS. No need to be so defensive. You like him. I don't, but still recognize his strengths. I'd take him over the three managers that preceeded him in a heartbeat. I know as long as the current owner stays he more than likely keeps his job no matter what.

 

Im not saying it is an idea, I am firmly convinced that if KW felt that Ozzie was incompetent that Ozzie would be removed as manager of the team. I dont believe that JR protects Ozzie from KW firing him, and if he was truly as incompetent as many suggest, that he would of been gone a long time ago. And I also admitted in my first post that Ozzie does a lot of stupid s*** that drives me absolutely bonkers, but to read this website one would believe that Ozzie is truly the worst manager in the major leagues, and I dont believe that by a long shot. Stubborn, somewhat crazy, gut over stats, absolutely. But not nearly as bad as a lot of Sox fans believe.

 

Beacon of sanity? He has been preaching on how the DH will never really matter. We get a real DH and win 7 straight.

 

and strangely enough without a true DH they managed to go 25-5 with streaks of 11 and 9 sandwiched in there. Baseball is a funny game, and this team is as streaky as it gets.

[fathom]

and strangely enough without a true DH they managed to go 25-5 with streaks of 11 and 9 sandwiched in there. Baseball is a funny game, and this team is as streaky as it gets.

 

And strangely enough, 9 of those games took place without a DH in the lineup. I do agree though, this team is incredibly streaky.

[greg775]

You're right, he's been worse. His blown save in the first Twins series after the ASB seemed to change the entire momentum of the season for the Twins. Also, his inability to stay healthy during the 2nd half of the season led to the increased usage of Thornton and Putz, which could have contributed to their ineffectiveness and injuries. Let's just hope Sale manages to stay healthy and avoids a serious injury.

 

I disagree fully.

The other Sox "closers" have imploded as well, giving me the impression they'd have blown a s***load of games before losing the job themselves.

I stand by giving Jenks a C or B-.

 

You seriously think Putz can close regularly? Or Thornton? Or Sale? Sale is the new flavor. Maybe he will be dominant for 10 years like Rivera. We shall see. I love his stuff. I hope he dominates forever.

I stand by my rating of Bobby Jenks.

 

I disagree on the momentum of the season crap. As a Sox fan my whole life I've heard about the game that turned around the momentum of our season for the worst. That's been a staple of being a Sox fan, at least in my lifetime of being a fan. Always the lousy shocking loss that killed our season or propelled some other team to the title.

 

The year we won it all? There was no f***ing momentum of the season, either. We almost blew the title in the last few weeks of the regular season.

Roberts hitting the ball into orbit was no different from any other Sox implosion. They all suck. Minnesota didn't need that exciting win to magically make the Twins amazing. They've been good for oh, about 10 years now.

Edited September 7, 2010 by greg775

[lostfan]

Any discussion of Ozzie's relative strengths and weaknesses has to take into account how bizarre this year has been.

 

You can't pin the blame for the entire first half on Ozzie, just as you cannot give him all the credit for the entire second half. This team has been beyond streaky.

 

Has Ozzie made bad on-field decisions this season? Absolutely.what manager hasn't? Has Ozzie made the right decisions this year, only to have usually reliabe players fail horribly? Absolutely, show me a team that hasn't happened to.

 

The result is love/hate for Ozzie that has whipsawed as violently as the team's performance.

 

As tired as I am of his truly idiotic rants, his feud with KW, his kids and all the other drama, he is the face of the franchise, and like it or not he keeps this team relevant in a town where the odds are always against that.

 

How many other managers are nationally recognized by their first name alone? Ozzie sells tickets and draws national media attention--remembering that if you're the White Sox there is no such thing as bad publicity.

 

He has certainly cost us some games--how many is for people smarter than me to figure out--but he also has his team back in a race that most of us considered a totally lost cause as recently as the ASB.

 

I am not defending his inexplicable fondness for Kotsay or his part in management's inexplicable but collective decision to let Thome go.

 

I'm just saying this team is still alive and actually showing more late-game resilience than we've seen in years.

 

You can certainly blame Ozzie for the Sox trailing the Twins by 3.5 games, but then you gotta give him some of the credit for not trailing by 13.5, without Peavy and with an erratic Jenks.

 

Oh, and speaking of managers we love to hate, "Gardy" is at the top of my list. He comes across as smug, arrogant and is hailed as a genius when in fact any of us could win with that lineup--even without Morneau and Nathan. And he plays dirty against us.

 

I'd much rather beat on him than Ozzie.

 

Now, could we please just get on with it and win another World Series?

Bravo. A post that is not loaded with "you idiots all want Ozzie to be taken out back and shot" strawmen is refreshing.

[fathom]

I'm puzzled as to why someone that likes to act like he's a hard ass is so scared to retaliate when our hitters get HBP.

[Mr. Wedmesday]

I'm puzzled as to why someone that likes to act like he's a hard ass is so scared to retaliate when our hitters get HBP.

 

The instantaneous warnings make it counterproductive for the retaliating team.

 

Tonight was the night, since no warnings were issued. We f****d it up and hit the umpire instead.

 

You can't make this stuff up......

[Balta1701]

The instantaneous warnings make it counterproductive for the retaliating team.

 

Tonight was the night, since no warnings were issued. We f****d it up and hit the umpire instead.

 

You can't make this stuff up......

It's not even that though. Even when guys get hit repeatedly and on purpose and Hawk is sitting up in the booth saying "it will be dealt with", like after the Delmon Young/AJ play, and perfect opportunities to plunk Young come up (early in the game, nobody on base), we don't do it.