Frightening Discovery

[knightni]

Player A: .242 8 hr 30 rbi .314 obp .391 slg - 1.5 mil

 

Player B: .266 7 hr 43 rbi .356 obp .392 slg - 8 mil

 

6.5 mil was spent on .024 ba, 13 rbi and .042 obp by a team.

 

A is

Kotsay

 

B is

Damon

 

 

[WilliamTell]

haha I knew who player A was, but couldn't figure out player B.

[TheChrisSamsa]

Kotsay- 297 AB

Damon- 462 AB

 

 

165 more plate appearences make that .024 a little better, and the rest of the stats look even worse.

[chw42]

Johnny Damon's WAR: 1.4

Mark Kotsay's WAR: -0.6

 

Yeah....

[JorgeFabregas]

.042 OBP difference is a big deal. The difference between a good player and a bad player. That's getting on 21 more times in 500 PA. 21 more chances to score runs, 21 fewer outs, etc.

[Special K]

Player A: .242 8 hr 30 rbi .314 obp .391 slg - 1.5 mil

 

Player B: .266 7 hr 43 rbi .356 obp .392 slg - 8 mil

 

6.5 mil was spent on .024 ba, 13 rbi and .042 obp by a team.

 

A is

Kotsay

 

B is

Damon

 

 

I mean, as nice of a find as that is... Damon's line is not the issue, this line is 20 HR, BA. .270, OBP .394, SLG. .603, and OPS .998

 

Those are Thome's numbers and it dwarfs both of those guys. He is also doing it with only 290 PAs. Lastly, although things may not have worked out the same, had we resigned Thome the Twins would really have been hurting for those numbers this year with Morneau missing almost the entire 2nd half.

 

But things are looking up now that we went out and picked up a legit DH.

 

I think he's making $1 million too.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Special K

[kjshoe04]

I mean, as nice of a find as that is... Damon's line is not the issue, this line is 20 HR, BA. .270, OBP .394, SLG. .603, and OPS .998

 

Those are Thome's numbers and it dwarfs both of those guys. He is also doing it with only 290 PAs. Lastly, although things may not have worked out the same, had we resigned Thome the Twins would really have been hurting for those numbers this year with Morneau missing almost the entire 2nd half.

 

But things are looking up now that we went out and picked up a legit DH.

 

I think he's making $1 million too.

Everybody knows the white sox should have signed Thome. We don't need to bring it up in every thread.

[Special K]

Everybody knows the white sox should have signed Thome. We don't need to bring it up in every thread.

 

 

I mean, why would I not bring it up in a discussion about possible DHs for the 2010 White Sox? FYI Thome hit a home run that scored the Twins 5th run today in their 5-4 win.

[joeynach]

Everybody knows the white sox should have signed Thome. We don't need to bring it up in every thread.

 

Ya know no one mention's this so here it is. I was watching MLB Network the other night and the host was talking about Thome, his numbers, and his OPS of over 1.0. The thing that stood out was that he said he spoke to Thome a couple days ago and said that Thome has really embraced the fact that he he is essentially a part time player and didn't think he could put up the same season if he was a full time DH again. Now he has played a lot since the ASB when Morneu went down, but gave a lot of credit to his part time status keeping him fresh and his nagging injuries from bothering him. He said that has contributed a lot to this ability to hit the ball hard and consistently this year. So unless the plan was to make Thome part of the rotating, not everyday DH, I dont believe we would be seeing the same monster. That point needs to be made, the man is 40 for christ's sake.

[jenksycat]

I mean, why would I not bring it up in a discussion about possible DHs for the 2010 White Sox? FYI Thome hit a home run that scored the Twins 5th run today in their 5-4 win.

Because we realistically were looking to get Damon and Thome was already decided as a no.

 

Thats why it doesn't matter.

[greg775]

Everybody knows the white sox should have signed Thome. We don't need to bring it up in every thread.

 

What'da know. Another thread turning into Kotsay/Thome on a day we won our seventh game in a row. Wow.

I will summarize the discussion.

Kotsay equal bad.

Jones is beloved.

Thome is a god.

We know. Kudos to Jimmy on a great season.

Ozzie equal the devil for not wanting Thome.

And yet we win and win and win. Seven in a row.

Edited September 6, 2010 by greg775

[kjshoe04]

I mean, why would I not bring it up in a discussion about possible DHs for the 2010 White Sox? FYI Thome hit a home run that scored the Twins 5th run today in their 5-4 win.

Probably because it's been exhausted. It's not like there are a million people on this site that are claiming that Kotsay was the right move. It's beating a dead horse when we are on a 7 game win streak!

[Jerksticks]

Probably because it's been exhausted. It's not like there are a million people on this site that are claiming that Kotsay was the right move. It's beating a dead horse when we are on a 7 game win streak!

 

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

[ScottyDo]

Kotsay- 297 AB

Damon- 462 AB

 

 

165 more plate appearences make that .024 a little better, and the rest of the stats look even worse.

Wow, I'm actually surprised that Kotsay's AB number is so low. The way we (myself included) talk about it, you'd think he was leading the team in plate appearances.

[kjshoe04]

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

I agree with you. I was all for letting him go. Obviously he is still better than Kotsay. It's a pointless argument to have on here but it seems to happen every day, win or lose.

[ScottyDo]

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

Thome going to Minny wouldn't be the first time a change of scenery helped someone. See: Edwin Jackson. Seriously, I was doing the exact thing you were just talking about. Thome v. Lefty in 2009 went exactly as follows: fastball strike 1; higher fastball strike 2; slider outside, swing and a miss by 8 inches for strike 3.

[Dick Allen]

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

 

This post is perhaps the most inaccurate in Soxtalk history. You may want to check the numbers. The guy was a good hitter with the Sox and has I believe the top 3 home run season for a LH hitter in team history.

 

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards

CLE (12 yrs) 1377 5723 4640 917 1332 259 20 334 927 18 14 997 1377 .287 .414 .567 .982 152 2633 86 42 1 43 86

CHW (4 yrs) 529 2165 1770 335 469 88 0 134 369 1 1 362 544 .265 .391 .542 .933 138 959 39 16 0 17 35

PHI (3 yrs) 361 1558 1279 234 333 65 4 96 266 0 5 260 385 .260 .386 .543 .928 139 694 20 8 0 11 41

MIN (1 yr) 94 289 237 37 64 15 2 20 49 0 0 49 75 .270 .394 .603 .998 167 143 8 1 0 2 3

LAD (1 yr) 17 17 17 0 4 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 7 .235 .235 .235 .471

 

 

A .933 OPS would never fit in with the White Sox. LMAO.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

My guess is we'll be talking about Thome on here til the day Oz gets fired.

And when that happens we will finally move on.

Til then, unfortunately it's Thome-time, baby, and the worst of it may be yet to come. He could pour more dirt on our grave in that 3 game series at the Cell.

[Kalapse]

This post is perhaps the most inaccurate in Soxtalk history. You may want to check the numbers. The guy was a good hitter with the Sox and has I believe the top 3 home run season for a LH hitter in team history.

It's the #1 reason why I find myself still cheering for him even while he's sleeping with the enemy. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

So here's what I did: I just started with the first game of the 2009 season (it's the most recent so it should be pretty fresh in everyone's memory) looking at Thome's HR logs and went through the first 2 or so months of the season looking for Thome HR that finished #1 in that particular game in WPA (ie: the most important hits of the game). Well it was 9 HR in until I got to June 1st and this is what I found:

 

Bottom 8, Down 1, Runners on: 2

Bottom 6, Tied, Runners on: 1

Top 5, Down 1, Runners on: 1

Top 8, Down 2, Runners on: 1

Bottom 8, Tied, Runners on: 2

 

I don't get how a hitter goes about failing in every crucial situation but still finishes #1 or #2 on the club in WPA each year he was here: #1 in '07 and '09 and #2 in '06 and '08.

[Kalapse]

Do these links work for anybody else?

I f***ed them up, they work in the new post.

[Buehrle>Wood]

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

 

Wow.

 

[Dick Allen]

It's the #1 reason why I find myself still cheering for him even while he's sleeping with the enemy. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

So here's what I did: I just started with the first game of the 2009 season (it's the most recent so it should be pretty fresh in everyone's memory) looking at Thome's HR logs and went through the first 2 or so months of the season looking for Thome HR that finished #1 in that particular game in WPA (ie: the most important hits of the game). Well it was 9 HR in until I got to June 1st and this is what I found:

 

Bottom 8, Down 1, Runners on: 2

Bottom 6, Tied, Runners on: 1

Top 5, Down 1, Runners on: 1

Top 8, Down 2, Runners on: 1

Bottom 8, Tied, Runners on: 2

 

I don't get how a hitter goes about failing in every crucial situation but still finishes #1 or #2 on the club in WPA each year he was here: #1 in '07 and '09 and #2 in '06 and '08.

 

And in 2008 there was this, I'm still pulling my hair out and cringing. Why was he on the team?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNT6Ghm0nKE

 

[greg775]

Geez, get those 2 guys off the board.

Gross.

[Milkman delivers]

Wow.

 

My reaction, too.

[Paulie4Pres]

Not only would Thome have been an upgrade for the Sox at DH, we would have kept him AWAY from the Twins, which I think is the bigger picture that most people here are missing. If Thome isn't on the Twins, the Sox are probably in first place right now.

 

Not bringing back Thome could turn out to be the deciding factor in us not winning the central. Especially if the Twins squeek it out by a game or two. I'd say it's a big deal, but whatever.

Edited September 7, 2010 by CQMVP