Frightening Discovery

[SoxAce]

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

 

 

It's the #1 reason why I find myself still cheering for him even while he's sleeping with the enemy. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

So here's what I did: I just started with the first game of the 2009 season (it's the most recent so it should be pretty fresh in everyone's memory) looking at Thome's HR logs and went through the first 2 or so months of the season looking for Thome HR that finished #1 in that particular game in WPA (ie: the most important hits of the game). Well it was 9 HR in until I got to June 1st and this is what I found:

 

Bottom 8, Down 1, Runners on: 2

Bottom 6, Tied, Runners on: 1

Top 5, Down 1, Runners on: 1

Top 8, Down 2, Runners on: 1

Bottom 8, Tied, Runners on: 2

 

I don't get how a hitter goes about failing in every crucial situation but still finishes #1 or #2 on the club in WPA each year he was here: #1 in '07 and '09 and #2 in '06 and '08.

 

I hardly ever say this (since I'm not a big fan of the word personally) but this is what you call getting PWNed ladies and gentlemen. Kalapse, still killing people..... with kindness.

[joeynach]

Not only would Thome have been an upgrade for the Sox at DH, we would have kept him AWAY from the Twins, which I think is the bigger picture that most people here are missing. If Thome isn't on the Twins, the Sox are probably in first place right now.

 

Not bringing back Thome could turn out to be the deciding factor in us not winning the central. Especially if the Twins squeek it out by a game or two. I'd say it's a big deal, but whatever.

 

If Thome isn't on the Twins and Morneau gets hurt yeah I agree, but if Moreneau doesnt get hurt Thome hardly gets playing time. Kubel is their primary DH, and deserving so, and Thome's contributions are minimal because of his reduced playing time, as was their plan from the get go when signing him.

[Paulie4Pres]

If Thome isn't on the Twins and Morneau gets hurt yeah I agree, but if Moreneau doesnt get hurt Thome hardly gets playing time. Kubel is their primary DH, and deserving so, and Thome's contributions are minimal because of his reduced playing time, as was their plan from the get go when signing him.

 

That's the thing though.... Morneau's injury hasn't hurt the Twins a whole bunch, because Thome has been pretty damn good for them... Take Thome off the Twins, stick him on the White Sox, and we're probably up three games with the Twins chasing us.

[ScottyDo]

The whole Thome thing is a gigantic buttload of hindsight being 20/20. There are so many circumstances that go into the results of this year. Of course, if we had a time machine, we'd go back sign him, but a good percentage of this well-educated board was behind dumping his behind for quite a number of very good reasons.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

There's no way to know if Thome would have helped us. All we know is that he wasn't a fit here for 4 years. He didn't fit in whatsoever. He never excited anybody, only made them cringe and pray for anything but a strikeout. If you think differently, I have to ask if you ever watched Sox baseball with a big group of Sox fans? If you weren't cringing or pulling hair out when Thome was up at crucial times, then...uh...what were ya doin??? Cheering confidently that Thome was gonna make that pitcher pay??? My ass. He came through like 1 outa 15 times; let his meaningless memory go.

I see this and automatically think football fan more than baseball fan. Like a guy is supposed to hit they way a QB passes at like a 60% success rate or something. Hitting a baseball is failure pure and simple. The sooner you realize that the easier it gets to acknowledge when the successes happen.

[Rowand44]

The whole Thome thing is a gigantic buttload of hindsight being 20/20.

Not at all, considering everyone in the f***in world minus Ozzie Guillen thought having Thome as our dh over Kotsay/Jones was the way to go.

[kitekrazy]

What'da know. Another thread turning into Kotsay/Thome on a day we won our seventh game in a row. Wow.

I will summarize the discussion.

Kotsay equal bad.

Jones is beloved.

Thome is a god.

We know. Kudos to Jimmy on a great season.

Ozzie equal the devil for not wanting Thome.

And yet we win and win and win. Seven in a row.

 

You managed to nail the symptoms of baseball retardedness that has plagued some of the members here. They'll even post stats to support their baseball retardedness.

 

[ScottyDo]

Not at all, considering everyone in the f***in world minus Ozzie Guillen thought having Thome as our dh over Kotsay/Jones was the way to go.

Most of us were on board with Damon over Thome. Heck, even the name Hank Blalock was bandied around. Thome may have been on the list of people we wanted over Kotsay but he wasn't at the top of the list.

[greg775]

Most of us were on board with Damon over Thome. Heck, even the name Hank Blalock was bandied around. Thome may have been on the list of people we wanted over Kotsay but he wasn't at the top of the list.

 

Thome got roasted on here a lot last year. Especially in game threads before we sent him to LA.

[kjshoe04]

Thome got roasted on here a lot last year. Especially in game threads before we sent him to LA.

Thome got a ton of bashing on this site last year. I was one of them. I wanted "anyone but Thome" as our dh. However I should have been saying "anyone competent but Thome." Lord knows I didn't want Kotsay. It wasn't as cut and dry as it is either Kotsay or Thome. Damon among others were out there. That's the part of the equation that people have trouble remembering is that we did look at other bats such as Damon and that the decision wasn't just Kotsay over Thome.

Edited September 7, 2010 by kjshoe04

[chetkincaid]

Good God I hope Jim Thome retires at the end of the season. Maybe then we can all let it go and move on.

 

Either that, or he'll come back here and finally break down for good.

[Milkman delivers]

You managed to nail the symptoms of baseball retardedness that has plagued some of the members here. They'll even post stats to support their baseball retardedness.

 

Wow, quite the post. Do yourself a favor, if you hate what everyone else has to say here, and continue to make posts like this. It'll get you banned quicker.

[NorthSideSox72]

You managed to nail the symptoms of baseball retardedness that has plagued some of the members here. They'll even post stats to support their baseball retardedness.

This is pushing it. Lay of with the "retarded" stuff, its pretty damn insulting.

 

[Jerksticks]

Wow.

 

Don't wow me boy; like you know something I don't. Laughable. My point is valid. I get it, you wanted Thome back. Well I didn't so deal with it, along with my explanation. Deal with it all.

Why can't you just let the man's memory rest peacefully? Must you continually look back with those hindsight goggles strapped so tightly to your face?

[hogan873]

Wow.

I had to go back and figure out what this was all about. I have to agree. Wow, what a terrible post. In his time here, Thome batted .265 with a .391 OBP and a .933 OPS. Along with that, he hit 134 HRs, 88 2Bs, and knocked in 369.

 

Sure, there were cringe-worthy moments, but that goes for almost every player at one time or another. I'm not saying Thome would have made a huge difference for us this year, but to say he was useless or meaningless to this team for his time here? Come on.

[chw42]

Don't wow me boy; like you know something I don't. Laughable. My point is valid. I get it, you wanted Thome back. Well I didn't so deal with it, along with my explanation. Deal with it all.

Why can't you just let the man's memory rest peacefully? Must you continually look back with those hindsight goggles strapped so tightly to your face?

 

No it isn't...

 

Saying a guy who had a .933 OPS that hit around 130 home runs for your team wasn't worth much is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited September 7, 2010 by chw42

[ScottyDo]

No it isn't...

 

Saying a guy who had a .933 OPS that hit around 130 home runs for your team wasn't worth much is absolutely ridiculous.

Okay but last year, in his age 38 season, he posted an .864 OPS and looked to be taking a downward slide. Not only that, but there were some really, REALLY ugly at-bats. Someone on here said we haven't seen at-bats like Manny's since Big Frank in his prime, EVEN THOUGH the results haven't matched the quality of his at-bats (no XBH yet). The converse could be said for Thome last year: he may have hit decently, but boy was it ugly at times.

 

Not only that, but in his limited opportunities with LAD to end the season, he looked awful.

 

So when you rewind to March of this year, when we were projecting his career arc, signs did not point to golden happiness and joy, particularly not in a reduced role (judging from the LAD numbers -- I know, sample size, blah blah blah). The Thome love, enjoyed by about 50% of this board during that couple-day span where we thought we might re-sign him, was largely based on residual fondness and affection from when he was playing well. It wasn't completely devoid of statistical analysis, but let's face it: it was not unreasonable to project a poor season out of the dude. The outrage right now is TOTALLY 20/20 retrospect.

 

It's like playing blackjack: a situation might call for you to hit, simply because of the odds, but there's a chance you bust. If you bust, was it the wrong choice? No.

[ScottyDo]

P.S. I wasn't even in the camp that we should ditch the guy; I was very luke-warm on him. I could see him being a boon to the DH spot, but I could equally see him having a terrible season and clogging our basepaths AND roster, since he is incredibly one-dimensional. The only reason I'm defending the decision right now so vehemently is because, now that he's produced, a handful of people are acting like letting him go was the stupidest decision on the face of the earth. They may be the same people begging for him back in March, maybe not, I don't remember, but there are an awful lot of blanket statements being issued.

[greg775]

Don't wow me boy; like you know something I don't. Laughable. My point is valid. I get it, you wanted Thome back. Well I didn't so deal with it, along with my explanation. Deal with it all.

Why can't you just let the man's memory rest peacefully? Must you continually look back with those hindsight goggles strapped so tightly to your face?

 

Good post Jerk. Lots of people brutalized Thome on here last year. They just won't admit it now.

Thome is their way of having ammo to get rid of Ozzie, which is the real issue for some. Fire the manager is always the easy way out. Wait til we're 16 below .500 some year. Wow are they gonna be wanting Ozzie out then.

 

And it ain't over yet. You better believe Thome is going to want to have another big series vs. the Sox in the Cell.

Edited September 7, 2010 by greg775

[Balta1701]

And it ain't over yet. You better believe Thome is going to want to have another big series vs. the Sox in the Cell.

Big Jim has a 1.086 OPS against righties and a .770 OPS against lefties. His HR exist against both sides when you account for the difference in at bats...but Jimbo has only 4 BB against LHP all year and 45 against RHP, and his batting average is also 40 points lower against LHP.

 

If a lefty makes a mistake to him he still hits it out (See: Matt Thornton). Otherwise though, if you throw 2 lefties with good stuff against him, he'll lose. The Sox have 2 lefties on the mound that series. They need to execute.

[hogan873]

Good post Jerk. Lots of people brutalized Thome on here last year. They just won't admit it now.

Thome is their way of having ammo to get rid of Ozzie, which is the real issue for some. Fire the manager is always the easy way out. Wait til we're 16 below .500 some year. Wow are they gonna be wanting Ozzie out then.

 

And it ain't over yet. You better believe Thome is going to want to have another big series vs. the Sox in the Cell.

Actually it wasn't a good post. I see the point that many people wanted Thome gone last season, and he did have a down year. But to say his time as a White Sox was meaningless is just not valid. A .933 OPS, 130+ HRs, and 370+ RBIs in a little less than 4 seaons is not meaningless.

 

And if this team is 16 below .500 some year, then the manager should definitely be on the hot seat.

[greg775]

Actually the Ozzie haters might hope Thome does brutalize us and we still win the three games.

Ozzie seems pretty sensitive over the Thome issue and he might have a blowup of epic proportions in the media if Thome has 3 big games and he keeps getting asked about it.

When Oz blows up, there's always the risk he'll do something that'll finally get him fired which would please oh, so many on here for some reason.

[Balta1701]

Actually the Ozzie haters might hope Thome does brutalize us and we still win the three games.

Ozzie seems pretty sensitive over the Thome issue and he might have a blowup of epic proportions in the media if Thome has 3 big games and he keeps getting asked about it.

When Oz blows up, there's always the risk he'll do something that'll finally get him fired which would please oh, so many on here for some reason.

Hell...I'd be happy with Thome hitting 12 HR in those 3 games if we won all 3 of them. Aside from the fact that it'd be pretty cool to watch...we'd win all 3 games!

[Jerksticks]

No it isn't...

Saying a guy who had a .933 OPS that hit around 130 home runs for your team wasn't worth much is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Yes it is. Since only OPS appears to matter to you, let's use that. Back to back .865 OPS seasons in 2008-2009. Whoopty-do. That's a nice OPS if you don't strikeout 400 times in a season and score a pathetic 55 runs. Sure seemed to most of us that Big Jim was trending down pretty hard after the first 2 seasons. Why on earth would you simply average his 4 seasons to determine if he should come back? The trend said he was in sharp decline.

 

Plus our team was what, 3rd to last in 2009 runs scored? I blame that on station to station baseball, a.k.a. White Sox Baseball post 2005, and I was sick of it. So was Ozzie. I'm not happy with Kotsay either but I sure didn't want that wastepit known as Jim Thome back. He just kills momentum like it's his job.

[hogan873]

Actually the Ozzie haters might hope Thome does brutalize us and we still win the three games.

Ozzie seems pretty sensitive over the Thome issue and he might have a blowup of epic proportions in the media if Thome has 3 big games and he keeps getting asked about it.

When Oz blows up, there's always the risk he'll do something that'll finally get him fired which would please oh, so many on here for some reason.

Eh, I don't think Ozzie will lose it even if Thome has a big series. I think many people are over the whole thing by now, especially since we have Manny now. Thome's having a good year, but there's no telling he would have had the same type of season with the Sox. I think Ozzie's job is secure as long as he wants it, and as long as the Sox keep winning, who could really ask for his firing? If the Sox miss out on the division and the WC and still have 92 or 93 wins, could anyone justify firing Ozzie?