2011

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

we should really push signing vmart, if we let konerko, jenks, and aj walk, and trade away CQ, i think we should have the cap space to do it. I think a package of CQ and Danks2 should be good enough to get Choo, if not a guy like Markakis.

 

If we do sign Vmart, talk about the flexibility we have

 

LF Pierre

2B Beckham

C Vmart

DH Manny

CF Rios

RF Choo

1B Viceido

SS Alexei

3B Morel

 

bench:

Viquel

De Aza

Jones (I heard he's willing to return for the same money)

Castro

 

Both Morel and Viceido are fairly young and inexperience, we can throw them out there 4-5 days a week and still have a pretty good secondnary lineup with Vizquel at 3rd, Vmart at 1st and Castro catching.

 

I am no expert at contracts, but I think Vmart can be had for 5 year $65 Mil or so? really gives us someone who can play the catcher and first base, and switching hitter in the middle of the lineup.

 

 

I'm sorry, I have to respectfully disagree.

[bigruss]

we should really push signing vmart, if we let konerko, jenks, and aj walk, and trade away CQ, i think we should have the cap space to do it. I think a package of CQ and Danks2 should be good enough to get Choo, if not a guy like Markakis.

The Indians GM would reject that offer before he even heard it.

[greg775]

Konerko LOVES Thome, so it wouldn't be a ridiculous idea.

 

If Konerko negotiates with the Twins, the Sox will have to overpay big time just to keep him.

The PR hit the Sox take if Paulie signs with Minnesota should be monumental.

You might as well just concede the title to the Twins if they have both Konerko and Thome sticking it to the Sox every chance they get.

[caulfield12]

First of all, there's no way that KW should trade Pierre unless we have ANOTHER option for leadoff, and Mitchell's probably 18 months away...and, at this point, we're far from certain if he can be an ideal leadoff hitter. Maybe.

 

V-Mart, Beltre, Crawford, etc., dream on.

 

The problem with letting Konerko go is that then you're relying on a LaRoche, Carlos Pena (the 1B version of Carlos Quentin, albeit a much better defender), Overbay, etc., even at their highest upsides Pena is the only one who approaches Konerko's output this season.

 

As for trading for Choo, if you offered Quentin, Danks2, Flowers and Morel, that's not even a certainty to get it done.

 

As far as Manny Ramirez goes, I'd like to see him show some XB pop before I even thought about bringing him back...there's a 95% chance baseball will never again see "classic Manny" again, because of age and being off the drugs.

 

The only place we can trade from is our position of strength, but that comes with a very questionable assumption Peavy will be the same pitcher he was before. If we don't resign Garcia, send Sale to the minors and trade any of Danks/Floyd/Jackson, it's going to be an incredibly risky move...unless Peavy can prove in ST he's ready to go. The only way you can trade Thornton is if you keep Sale in the pen, and it seems starting in AAA is his destination...so, with no Threets, you basically have to keep Matty.

 

It's scary to think what our offense is going to be like without Konerko AND Quentin, and with a new catcher (granted, AJ didn't light up the OPS numbers this year)....that would leave the core of our offense as Rios (hopefully he can repeat an 800 OPS at least), Beckham and Alexei. That's very scary. Viciedo, in particular, will have to produce in that scenario.

 

As for Konerko to the Twins, they do have other options, like Cuddyer, with Valencia seemingly ensconced at 3B, and you have to create playing time for Kubel/Young/Thome. Keep in mind, they have some talented outfielders like Hicks and Revere, so Cuddyer is likely to stick at 1B for the future if for some reason Morneau couldn't ever come back (which would be not unlike the Puckett glaucoma situation).

 

With the Twins likely to be paying Capps at least what Jenks is getting this year, plus Nathan's salary, they're unlikely to be spending $10+ million on another player not already on their roster. They're certainly not going to non-tender Capps after trading Ramos for him and without being certain of what they have in Nathan until the very end of spring training at the earliest.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2010 by caulfield12

[hogan873]

If we do sign Vmart, talk about the flexibility we have

 

LF Pierre

2B Beckham

C Vmart

DH Manny

CF Rios

RF Choo

1B Viceido

SS Alexei

3B Morel

I saw he rejected a two year deal from Boston. What kind of money would he be asking for in a longer term deal?

[Quin]

Wouldn't that be something? Thome and Konerko both go North and end up beating our brains in. Ugh.

 

For me this would be 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times worse than Maggs or Frank were.

[Balta1701]

I saw he rejected a two year deal from Boston. What kind of money would he be asking for in a longer term deal?

Fangraphs is guessing he'd wind up in the 4/$48 range.

[hogan873]

Fangraphs is guessing he'd wind up in the 4/$48 range.

Probably too much for the Sox to pay. Plus, is he still a full time catcher?

[Balta1701]

Plus, is he still a full time catcher?

The stuff I've read suggests he's actually gotten better behind the plate as the season has gone on...but let's be honest here...the Red Sox have given up 136 stolen bases this year. That is 18 more steals against the Sawx than against any other team in the AL. And the Red Sox have thrown out 22% of base stealers this year...the only team worse in the AL is the Yankees. You put him behind the plate...the opponents will have a field day on the bases.

 

You might be able to get by with having VMart be the everyday catcher for Buehrle and Danks since they can slow down the running game on their own...but with Peavy, Floyd, and probably Jackson (I haven't seen his move since he never has anyone on base in games I watch), a single by anyone faster than Jim Thome will basically be a double.

[Kyyle23]

I dont remember Konerko saying anything in ST about it being time to leave the organization. And all season he has been talking about how much he loves the Sox organization. If he wants to stay, my guess is that he stays.

[Balta1701]

I dont remember Konerko saying anything in ST about it being time to leave the organization. And all season he has been talking about how much he loves the Sox organization. If he wants to stay, my guess is that he stays.

I certainly hope so...but frankly, after some of the anti-power-hitter nonsense we keep getting...I worry.

[Kyyle23]

I certainly hope so...but frankly, after some of the anti-power-hitter nonsense we keep getting...I worry.

 

All I can hope is that KW observes that when he did things the way Ozzie wanted them done, the margin of error was just way too small. The need for some lineup thunder is there, and keeping Konerko doesnt change that, but it does make the situation better. Hopefully a bigtime power hitter(preferably lefty) makes his way to chicago this year.

[caulfield12]

Damn you, Joe Borchard!

 

If he ever became the franchise player many thought he was capable of evolving into, there never would have been a need to trade Rowand for Thome (that was actually okay) or for Nick Swisher, in which case we'd still have Gio Gonzalez.

 

It has been interesting how one particular position/issue on this team has seemed to doom us for much of the last five years....CF, leadoff hitter, this season no LH/DH power.

 

The first half of the decade, it was the lack of a fifth starter.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Damn you, Joe Borchard!

 

If he ever became the franchise player many thought he was capable of evolving into, there never would have been a need to trade Rowand for Thome (that was actually okay) or for Nick Swisher, in which case we'd still have Gio Gonzalez.

 

It has been interesting how one particular position/issue on this team has seemed to doom us for much of the last five years....CF, leadoff hitter, this season no LH/DH power.

 

The first half of the decade, it was the lack of a fifth starter.

 

I doubt that. KW loved using that guy as a trading chip

[scenario]

I've seen lots of Choo love lately...

 

Something to keep in mind...

He kills righties... career OPS > .900

But his career average against lefties is very Kotsay-like... .268/.347/.395/.742

And this year his numbers are below his average... .267/.337/.341/.678

Edited September 10, 2010 by scenario

[Kyyle23]

Until Choo gets his citizenship/army commitment issue out of the way, it really isnt worth pursuing. Is South Korea good enough to win the gold in the olympics? Because thats what has to happen(supposedly) for him to be released from his commitment, unless he decides to defect. And one would thing he would of defected already if thats what he wanted to do.

[JorgeFabregas]

I've seen lots of Choo love lately...

 

Something to keep in mind...

He kills righties... career OPS > .900

But his career average against lefties is very Kotsay-like... .268/.347/.395/.742

And this year his numbers are below his average... .267/.337/.341/.678

Oh, come on. The whole benefit of left-handed hitters is that most of the league's pitchers are right-handed. He's a 5 WAR/year player. He doesn't have huge power, but he consistently gets on base.

[JorgeFabregas]

Until Choo gets his citizenship/army commitment issue out of the way, it really isnt worth pursuing. Is South Korea good enough to win the gold in the olympics? Because thats what has to happen(supposedly) for him to be released from his commitment, unless he decides to defect. And one would thing he would of defected already if thats what he wanted to do.

I think it's at some World Championships or Asian games. There's no baseball at London 2012.

 

Edit: and they they did win the gold in 2008.

Edited September 10, 2010 by JorgeFabregas

[caulfield12]

Maybe it was at the World Baseball Classic or something....seems they always end up fighting it out with Japan in the end.

 

At any rate, there's no way the Indians are trading Choo to us, he's arguably their best player unless Sizemore ever returns to form.

[LittleHurt05]

Maybe it was at the World Baseball Classic or something....seems they always end up fighting it out with Japan in the end.

 

At any rate, there's no way the Indians are trading Choo to us, he's arguably their best player unless Sizemore ever returns to form.

 

This. And can we please stop the CQ + anybody for Choo trade ideas? The Indians are bad but they aren't that stupid.

[Harry Chappas]

I am not an AJ fan but who replaces him?

 

Also Quentin has zero value as a trade option now so it is best to hang on to him.

 

I think if AJ goes Danks is part of a deal for a catcher.

[scenario]

Oh, come on. The whole benefit of left-handed hitters is that most of the league's pitchers are right-handed. He's a 5 WAR/year player. He doesn't have huge power, but he consistently gets on base.

 

Say whatever you want. The numbers are what they are.

 

And since on average he's faced lefties in approximately 1/3 of at-bats over his career (and 37% of the time this year), I thought his struggles were noteworthy.

 

Think about it. People complained like hell when Thome faced lefties... thought he was worthless in those at-bats. Well... Choo has similar struggles against lefties. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

Great OBP. Good pop against righties. (20 homeruns his top power season so far at age 28). Very nice player. But I wouldn't drool over him like some posters are.

Edited September 10, 2010 by scenario

[JorgeFabregas]

I always thought the Thome v. lefty complaints were off-base.

[hogan873]

I am not an AJ fan but who replaces him?

 

Also Quentin has zero value as a trade option now so it is best to hang on to him.

 

I think if AJ goes Danks is part of a deal for a catcher.

I've been thinking about that, too. I mean, Castro is an option, but I don't know how well he'd do as an everyday starter. Flowers doesn't seem to be ready, and Lucy probably isn't starting catcher material. I would like VMart, but he would most likely cost too much for the Sox. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if AJ is signed again, but then we'd be having the same conversation in September, 2011.

 

I'll have to poke around and see what other catchers are out there that could be had.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not ready to write off Flowers yet. He had a mediocre year in AAA, but he raked the year before, and had some big streaks this year. Plus his defense is much improved. I still believe he has a chance to be a starter. I just wish we had AJ under contract for one more year, so that Flowers could get his feet under him.

 

I'd like to see the Sox offer AJ a one year deal. He may or may not take it though.