Part Time Thome Kills Sox Again

[BearingPro]

Ron Gardenhire figured a way to get the most from good old #25. JT has 23 dingers and everyone seemingly critical to our chances (see Twins 1-0 win Saturday night).

 

Thats OK we got Mark Kotsay...

Edited September 12, 2010 by BearingPro

[Quin]

I'll sum up what everyone who posts in this threads thoughts will be;

 

"f*** flexible DH's and Ozzie Ball"

[Wanne]

"We watched Thome kill us for all those years, so it's nice to have him on our side killing somebody else," Gardenhire said. "He's a Hall of Famer who gives us a huge presence."

 

Simply makes me want to puke....

[greg775]

LOL

On and on about Thome.

Thome didn't cost us the division.

We could have picked up a similar DH. KW listened to Oz. It's both their faults.

It's second guessing about Thome. This board had so much Thome hate his final year here.

I hope Thome leads them to the WS title. Once and for all, Minnie, go for it.

And the Ozzie haters may get their wish of his firing. Surely Thome will bury us in that 3 game series some more and Oz just might freak out where he throws something or injures a writer and finally gets fired for good. He's sensitive about the Thome thing.

 

You guys on this Thome kick fail to accept one fact.

We were in the race w/out Thome. We did not add to the team at the AS Break. We stood pat and paid for it.

We could have responded like competitors and added a bat. We were right there with Minnie.

Sox thought they could stand pat.

Halfway through the season we were right there WOUT THOME.

Sox could have but didn't add the bat to continue competing with Minnie. But keep dreaming about Jimmy Thome who so many wanted out of town and were so happy he went to the Dodgers.

Edited September 12, 2010 by greg775

[Jordan4life_2007]

LOL

On and on about Thome.

Thome didn't cost us the division.

We could have picked up a similar DH. KW listened to Oz. It's both their faults.

It's second guessing about Thome. This board had so much Thome hate his final year here.

I hope Thome leads them to the WS title. Once and for all, Minnie, go for it.

And the Ozzie haters may get their wish of his firing. Surely Thome will bury us in that 3 game series some more and Oz just might freak out where he throws something or injures a writer and finally gets fired for good. He's sensitive about the Thome thing.

 

You guys on this Thome kick fail to accept one fact.

We were in the race w/out Thome. We did not add to the team at the AS Break. We stood pat and paid for it.

We could have responded like competitors and added a bat. We were right there with Minnie.

Sox thought they could stand pat.

Halfway through the season we were right there WOUT THOME.

Sox could have but didn't add the bat to continue competing with Minnie. But keep dreaming about Jimmy Thome who so many wanted out of town and were so happy he went to the Dodgers.

 

Face it, greg, if Thome had been part of the '05 team you'd be agreeing with every single one of us. You wanted Crede here when it was clear he was done. You were one of the guys killing the front office for not being Pods back (even though we got his black clone in Pierre). You refused to acknowledge that Jermaine Dye was the worst defensive RF in baseball for about three years. You'll cut your arm off before you say a single negative thing about Bobby Jenks. And word is you wear Timo Perez boxer shorts.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Jordan4life

[greg775]

Why not respond to my point! We were in it without Thome.

Sox decided to not tamper with chemistry and add a player or two except a pitcher when we had a good one already in Huddy.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why not respond to my point! We were in it without Thome.

Sox decided to not tamper with chemistry and add a player or two except a pitcher when we had a good one already in Huddy.

 

We have. You don't listen. If we have Thome GOING INTO THE SEASON we have a little more margin for error. Does it guarantee anything? Nope. But it can't be ignored. It's been over and done with. But that will forever be a black mark on Ozzie's and KW's resume. You'll get no argument from me about the Jackson trade. I've been made my feeling known on that and will not recant.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Jordan4life

[greg775]

Of course it will be a black mark, cause we failed and didn't win division w/out Thome.

But I'm saying we had options to COMPETE and win it w/out Thome, not sit back and misidentify the fact we needed a bat at the break or TWO BATS.

Sox not only blew it in preseason but blew it at midseason.

We were FINE w/out Thome.

We could have stuck it to them and competed with them all the way even though they had Jim Thome.

Sox were right there at the break and you guys IMO are acting like wimps saying, 'Oh we couldn't win without Thome.' Big bad Oz and Kenny.

I'm saying we had it.

We add somebody besides Thome at the break and we're fine.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Of course it will be a black mark, cause we failed and didn't win division w/out Thome.

But I'm saying we had options to COMPETE and win it w/out Thome, not sit back and misidentify the fact we needed a bat at the break or TWO BATS.

Sox not only blew it in preseason but blew it at midseason.

We were FINE w/out Thome.

We could have stuck it to them and competed with them all the way even though they had Jim Thome.

Sox were right there at the break and you guys IMO are acting like wimps saying, 'Oh we couldn't win without Thome.' Big bad Oz and Kenny.

I'm saying we had it.

We add somebody besides Thome at the break and we're fine.

 

Last I checked, it took two to make a trade. The Sox tried to get Dunn. They failed. They probably tried to get a couple other guys that we didn't hear much about and failed. That's what happens when your farm system is barren. Look at the Phillies. In the last year they've acquired two aces and an all-star caliber #3 starter (possibly a #2). Why? Because they have pieces teams want. They didn't neglect their farm for most of the last decade and are just now realizing that it's a tad bit important if you're not the Yankees. Point is you go into the season with the best possible team you can field. Not wait until August and try to fix something that could've been fixed before the season.

[greg775]

I still think there was no urgency to make a deal cause Paulie, Oz, KW all wanted to stay pat.

They were wrong.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I still think there was no urgency to make a deal cause Paulie, Oz, KW all wanted to stay pat.

They were wrong.

 

Oh my goodness. I like you overall greg. But if I were a cop I'd taze the s*** outta you like they did to those dudes from the Hangover and lock your ass up on some bogus charge.

[greg775]

The Hangover was a great movie but not an all timer.

Mike Tyson's role was awesome.

I'd give it an A-.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

$ 3 MIL. for Thome, Aubrey Huff or one month of useless Manny Ramirez ?

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Thome didn't cost us the division.

 

This

 

Minnesota just outplayed us in nearly every aspect of the game.

 

The funny thing is if our bullpen hadn't hit that rough patch we'd still be what only 1 game or 2 out with 3 still to play against Minnesota.

 

I really don't expect Minnesota to go anywhere in the playoffs either.

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

$ 3 MIL. for Thome, Aubrey Huff or one month of useless Manny Ramirez ?

Thome would have done nothing for the Sox just listen to the guys who are also saying Manny is responsible for just about every run the Sox score even though he hasn't quite driven one in yet.

 

What many fail to recognize is beyond the fact that not saying Thome would have helped the Sox win this year, Minnesota not having him would have hurt them. I know Thome is a very nice, classy gentleman, but I bet you it must feel extra nice being a huge part of killing a team that didn't think he could help them win playoff chances, while helping propel his team into the playoffs.

 

It may be old and said 1,000,000 times, but not re-signing Thome was nothing but a mistake. Obviously nothing can be done about it now, but its ridiculous some posters refuse to acknowlede that fact. Since the ASB, he has 100 official AB with 13 homers and an OPS over 1.200. If Manny did that he'd be a God. He's a God to some just being on deck when somebody does something. Thome has taken Morneau's injury as an excuse and thrown it out the window, and as a small sidenote has given himself a 100% shot at a contract for next season and 600 homers if he wishes.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Texsox]

If we signed guys just to stop Minny from getting them, well that's kind of silly. As it turned out yeah having Thome probably would have made this race closer. But the decision to not sign *Thome* AT THE TIME was not that bad of a decision. It's almost like going back to a draft after 5 years and figuring out who should have been drafted.

 

But honestly, I believe if we did sign Thome, we'd still be in this spot and people would be ripping on K-Dubya and Oz for going into the season with an aging DH who couldn't play full time.

[Dick Allen]

If we signed guys just to stop Minny from getting them, well that's kind of silly. As it turned out yeah having Thome probably would have made this race closer. But the decision to not sign *Thome* AT THE TIME was not that bad of a decision. It's almost like going back to a draft after 5 years and figuring out who should have been drafted.

 

But honestly, I believe if we did sign Thome, we'd still be in this spot and people would be ripping on K-Dubya and Oz for going into the season with an aging DH who couldn't play full time.

I believe, AT THE TIME, it was a horrible decision. The Sox needed a LH hitter. KW talked about the list in his back pocket. It was a no brainer move. Ozzie's argument was silly. The "we'll just get Adam Dunn or Adrian Gonzalez" BS if the rotating DH doesn't work, doesn't work either. Besides, check Thome's numbers. Obviously he can't play everyday anymore, but Gardenhire is using him exactly how Ozzie could have used him and still had his rotating DH,only just a partial, and Thome's production during those times is just as good, if not better than those other 2 players, and at a fraction of the cost in both talent and money.I never suggested signing Thome to keep Minnesota from getting him although teams to claim waiver players for that same purpose, and wind up paying them just as much, if not more than what Thome is paid in 2010. Signing Thome would have served the dual role of helping the Sox and keeping him off the Twins however, which in hindsight, would have been an excellent thing.

 

As for your last comment about the aging DH who can't play every day, look at all the love for Manny. He gets credit for just about every run the Sox score even though he has zero RBI and scored one run. Consistency is not a Soxtalk trait.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Dick Allen

[klaus kinski]

Why not respond to my point! We were in it without Thome.

Sox decided to not tamper with chemistry and add a player or two except a pitcher when we had a good one already in Huddy.

THEY are in it because of Thome-we had control-and our management handed him to them, just like the division.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Thome would have done nothing for the Sox just listen to the guys who are also saying Manny is responsible for just about every run the Sox score even though he hasn't quite driven one in yet.

 

What many fail to recognize is beyond the fact that not saying Thome would have helped the Sox win this year, Minnesota not having him would have hurt them. I know Thome is a very nice, classy gentleman, but I bet you it must feel extra nice being a huge part of killing a team that didn't think he could help them win playoff chances, while helping propel his team into the playoffs.

 

It may be old and said 1,000,000 times, but not re-signing Thome was nothing but a mistake. Obviously nothing can be done about it now, but its ridiculous some posters refuse to acknowlede that fact. Since the ASB, he has 100 official AB with 13 homers and an OPS over 1.200. If Manny did that he'd be a God. He's a God to some just being on deck when somebody does something. Thome has taken Morneau's injury as an excuse and thrown it out the window, and as a small sidenote has given himself a 100% shot at a contract for next season and 600 homers if he wishes.

 

Listen up people ! Kenny getting Manny Ramirez and before that trying to get Lance Berkman, Carlos Delgado and whomever else is EXACTLY Kenny saying " We need Jim Thome !"

 

I still understnd Ozzie's plan and I don't fault him for it. It was a big dilemma for this team. Either they do without Kotsay or Jones and that would hurt the team defensively. Which is why I couldn't understand not signing Aubrey Huff who plays a fair 3B, 1B and OF. Kotsay would not have been needed at all but they had already signed him. Too bad that $ 1 mil. they gave Kotsay stood in the way of their Division Championship. Instead, they threw away $ 3 mil. on Manny.

[fathom]

If only Thome was a bigger asshole, Ozzie might have liked him more.

[scenario]

Last night's win by the Twins could have been the freakin' dagger in our season.

 

It's been slipping away from us anyway, but we're at the point now that every game in the standings is huge.

 

There are 20 games left. If the Twins play .500 ball (win 10 games), we'll have to go 15-5 just to force a game 163.

 

So, we're at the stage where we have to go on a torrid winning streak and hope for an epic collapse by the Twins to give us a chance.

 

Go Bears.

 

 

[Leonard Zelig]

This is an argument that will live for years on soxtalk, but didn't I hear recently that the Sox were second in runs scored since the All-Star break? How much better would Thome have made this team? He could not have helped the bullpen, he could not have helped Floyd or Peavy in the first 2 months and I sincerely do not know if he would have helped Beckham, Ramirez, Quentin, etc. who sucked so badly at the start of the season.

 

Thome, Ozzie, and KW are the popular scapegoats because its easy point a finger at one person and a say, "That's why our season was disappointing", but we had the horses to run this race, they just didn't run their best.

[Dick Allen]

This is an argument that will live for years on soxtalk, but didn't I hear recently that the Sox were second in runs scored since the All-Star break? How much better would Thome have made this team? He could not have helped the bullpen, he could not have helped Floyd or Peavy in the first 2 months and I sincerely do not know if he would have helped Beckham, Ramirez, Quentin, etc. who sucked so badly at the start of the season.

 

Thome, Ozzie, and KW are the popular scapegoats because its easy point a finger at one person and a say, "That's why our season was disappointing", but we had the horses to run this race, they just didn't run their best.

He certainly could have helped earlier in the season. Kotsay was hitting .333 his last 20 games according to the graphic last night, but its a pretty empty .333.

This month Mr. Unclutch Jim Thome has 6 walks and 5 homers in 23 plate appearances. He has 10 homers his last 60 plate appearances. I cannot see any argument that says getting rid of him, basically kicking him out the door as he would have played for whatever you would have paid him, was anything but a horrendous move. I've seen lots of attempts, but they make zero sense.

[BigSqwert]

This is an argument that will live for years on soxtalk, but didn't I hear recently that the Sox were second in runs scored since the All-Star break? How much better would Thome have made this team? He could not have helped the bullpen, he could not have helped Floyd or Peavy in the first 2 months and I sincerely do not know if he would have helped Beckham, Ramirez, Quentin, etc. who sucked so badly at the start of the season.

 

Thome, Ozzie, and KW are the popular scapegoats because its easy point a finger at one person and a say, "That's why our season was disappointing", but we had the horses to run this race, they just didn't run their best.

 

Our team was in it primarily because of an outstanding run against NL teams, where the DH was not part of the equation. Notice how mediocre we were prior to and after the NL stretch. Just look at out record against the AL and AL Central.

[scenario]

This is an argument that will live for years on soxtalk, but didn't I hear recently that the Sox were second in runs scored since the All-Star break? How much better would Thome have made this team?

 

Replaces one of the weakest links in our lineup (Thome > Kotsay)

 

Takes away several Twins wins I can think of... including the walkoff against us in Minny.

 

The swing between those two events probably makes the difference in the standings.

 

And the Sox runs scored since the ASB is somewhat deceptive. We have been a very inconsistent offense. We had big scoring days followed by games where we couldn't buy a run against crappy pitching. It's exactly the sort of thing that happens when you have a combination of bangers and low OBP (aka high probability out-producing) players in the lineup.

Edited September 12, 2010 by scenario