Keeping Kenny or Keeping Ozzie

[winninguglyin83]

As the Sox move into the off season and a possible decision looms between keeping Ozzie or keeping Kenny, I won't dwell on the $4 million wasted on Manny Ramirez, who has contributed more bogus haircuts than RBIs or extra-base hits.

 

Instead, I'll note that Daniel Hudson, Gio Gonzalez and Clayton Richard, three pitchers making under a half-million each, three guys at least four seasons from free agency, three guys drafted by and developed by the White Sox are a combined 32-17.

 

All three have earned run averages below 3.50. All three have allowed fewer hits than innings pitched. All three are five games over. 500.

 

Not keeping any of the three was a colossal blunder by the GM and the collective decisions will contribute to financial difficulties on the roster in the next few years.

 

There. Now I feel better.

 

[Cali]

If I have to choose one, Ozzie has to go first...

 

By the way Clayton gave up 8 ER today...FYI

[justBLAZE]

So you vote keep Ozzie?

 

Rumors: Kenny is going through a divorce, Kenny will move on to VP (like Paxson with the Bulls), Hahn becomes the GM, Ozzie stays.

[greg775]

Does Hahn have a track record? Does he know what he's doing?

 

I'd boot Kenny. Keep Ozzie but revamp the team back to a plodding home run hitting team to go with our supposed great pitching staff.

I'd never bunt to keep Soxtalk happy and tell Ozzie no NL style ball anymore.

With all the home run hitters, I'd still put a great defensive team out there somehow as well.

 

Fire Kenny. Keep Ozzie. Pray Hahn is good GM.

[Vance Law]

You should put a vote thingy in your post.

 

 

The best thing in the world that could happen to the franchise would be Ozzie getting fired. Anyone, absolutely anyone, would be better than him.

[LVSoxFan]

Keep Ozzie but revamp the team back to a plodding home run hitting team to go with our supposed great pitching staff.

 

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[winninguglyin83]

I vote for a better relationship between the GM and manager -- regardless of who fills either office.

 

Don't see how the franchise can move forward with the continuous hissing contests that have existed this year.

 

Don't think they have the same vision for what kind of team they prefer.

 

And as for the young pitchers, having a starter (or two) making the minimum is a very valuable commodity. And the Sox have dealt away three of those guys.

 

With the season officially ending last night, it's time to vent.

[Balta1701]

I vote for a better relationship between the GM and manager -- regardless of who fills either office.

 

Don't see how the franchise can move forward with the continuous hissing contests that have existed this year.

 

Don't think they have the same vision for what kind of team they prefer.

 

And as for the young pitchers, having a starter (or two) making the minimum is a very valuable commodity. And the Sox have dealt away three of those guys.

 

With the season officially ending last night, it's time to vent.

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for the manager and the GM to have opposing visions for the type of player that they prefer...there's no single way to put together a winning baseball team, and as such, a mix of player types and evaluations could well be a good thing.

 

I do have to agree with you though that the "Hissing contests" as you describe them have been absolutely intolerable and they needed to stop before they started.

[SoxAce]

So you vote keep Ozzie?

 

Rumors: Kenny is going through a divorce, Kenny will move on to VP (like Paxson with the Bulls), Hahn becomes the GM, Ozzie stays.

 

Hmmm... looks like his wife finally caught him huh?

 

And Ozzie seriously needs to change some of his ways if he wants to be considered a top tier manager. Playing NL style ball to the extreme like he does only has its limits. I always wanted Ozzie gone way before Kenny. Unless it's Kenny doing it himself (not being forced to), I would not be happy about this.

[winninguglyin83]

I can't believe it's an enjoyable working environment for either guy.

 

It's aggravating to watch the Twins handle the Sox year after year with a much smaller payroll.

 

Why?

 

Better drafting. Better player-development. Better decision-making.

 

I realize they haven't won the World Series since 1991.

 

But they're usually in the hunt -- and have taken major hits like losing Santana, Hunter, Ortiz, A.J. and the others.

[greg775]

I vote for a better relationship between the GM and manager -- regardless of who fills either office.

 

Don't see how the franchise can move forward with the continuous hissing contests that have existed this year.

 

Don't think they have the same vision for what kind of team they prefer.

 

And as for the young pitchers, having a starter (or two) making the minimum is a very valuable commodity. And the Sox have dealt away three of those guys.

 

With the season officially ending last night, it's time to vent.

 

Nice vent. Good post.

[Vance Law]

As the Sox move into the off season and a possible decision looms between keeping Ozzie or keeping Kenny, I won't dwell on the $4 million wasted on Manny Ramirez, who has contributed more bogus haircuts than RBIs or extra-base hits.

 

Instead, I'll note that Daniel Hudson, Gio Gonzalez and Clayton Richard, three pitchers making under a half-million each, three guys at least four seasons from free agency, three guys drafted by and developed by the White Sox are a combined 32-17.

 

All three have earned run averages below 3.50. All three have allowed fewer hits than innings pitched. All three are five games over. 500.

 

Not keeping any of the three was a colossal blunder by the GM and the collective decisions will contribute to financial difficulties on the roster in the next few years.

 

There. Now I feel better.

 

On a case by case basis, Edwin Jackson is still kicking Hudson's butt. And we got him because we needed results now for a pennant race

With Gio, the only problem I have is that because of Guillen's nightmare ego/personality we had to give up Swisher for basically nothing.

Clayton's got a 3.70 ERA in the best pitcher's park in baseball. And it's in the NL. And it's in the NL West. That grades out probably to a notch or so above average in the AL. Looks worse only in hindsight with Peavy's injury.

 

It's the Swisher to the Yankees deal that I think is the worst during Kenny's tenure (and I blame Ozzie). He could have been playing right field all year with Quentin at DH, Kotsay on a fishing boat somewhere, and we would have clinched the division by now (joking).

[greg775]

On a case by case basis, Edwin Jackson is still kicking Hudson's butt. And we got him because we needed results now for a pennant race

With Gio, the only problem I have is that because of Guillen's nightmare ego/personality we had to give up Swisher for basically nothing.

Clayton's got a 3.70 ERA in the best pitcher's park in baseball. And it's in the NL. And it's in the NL West. That grades out probably to a notch or so above average in the AL. Looks worse only in hindsight with Peavy's injury.

 

It's the Swisher to the Yankees deal that I think is the worst during Kenny's tenure (and I blame Ozzie). He could have been playing right field all year with Quentin at DH, Kotsay on a fishing boat somewhere, and we would have clinched the division by now (joking).

 

You have the right to be mad about Swisher, but it wasn't meant to be here.

He sucked in a Sox uniform and didn't I read somewhere that not only Ozzie hated his cocky ass?

Sometimes it doesn't work out, ala Teahen. I hope they can dump Teahen on the Yankees as they did Swish.

[Balta1701]

It's aggravating to watch the Twins handle the Sox year after year with a much smaller payroll.

Worth noting...the exact numbers are hard to figure because of the large sums of money coming along with Juan Pierre and anything like insurance costs/insurance payments on guys like Morneau and Peavy...Kalapse's sheet had us around $100 million prior to adding Manroid's $4 million and the couple million Jackson had left. The Twins started the season at $97 million and have added Matt Capps and Brian Fuentes to that roster.

 

The Twins have at best a "Slightly" smaller payroll than the White Sox these days.

[Vance Law]

It's aggravating to watch the Twins handle the Sox year after year with a much smaller payroll.

 

Sox handled the Twins in 2005 and 2008.

 

In 2010 their payrolls:

 

Sox $103 million

Twins $97.7 million

 

[winninguglyin83]

duly noted.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Tough to process that the season is over. Just a vent after the sight of the final three innings last night.

[whitesoxfan99]

As the Sox move into the off season and a possible decision looms between keeping Ozzie or keeping Kenny, I won't dwell on the $4 million wasted on Manny Ramirez, who has contributed more bogus haircuts than RBIs or extra-base hits.

 

Instead, I'll note that Daniel Hudson, Gio Gonzalez and Clayton Richard, three pitchers making under a half-million each, three guys at least four seasons from free agency, three guys drafted by and developed by the White Sox are a combined 32-17.

 

All three have earned run averages below 3.50. All three have allowed fewer hits than innings pitched. All three are five games over. 500.

 

Not keeping any of the three was a colossal blunder by the GM and the collective decisions will contribute to financial difficulties on the roster in the next few years.

 

There. Now I feel better.

 

Clayton Richard is a product of pitching in San Diego. He would be nothing more than a 4th starter at best in the AL and US Cellular field.

[winninguglyin83]

There is nothing wrong with having a fourth or fifth starter who pitches for less than a million a year.

 

 

[Cali]

Clayton Richard is a product of pitching in San Diego. He would be nothing more than a 4th starter at best in the AL and US Cellular field.

 

even that might be generous....

 

i cringed every start he made for the Sox. He would dominate for 4 innings then s*** the bed....so frustrating....

 

[Vance Law]

There is nothing wrong with having a fourth or fifth starter who pitches for less than a million a year.

 

True. We had that when we brought Danks and Floyd into the rotation, but they are getting to their expensive years. We had it with Garcia this year. Potentially with Sale next year. You are right that developing our own pitching has not been a strong suit recently. Nor has developing our own position players.

[mmmmmbeeer]

There is nothing wrong with having a fourth or fifth starter who pitches for less than a million a year.

 

What about 3 fourth or fifth starters because, apparently, that's the OP's point....we should have hung onto a bunch of bottom of the rotation pitchers because they're cheap.

 

 

KW has been an absolute Godsend to this franchise. Our drafts are looking CONSIDERABLY better (see Sale, Beckham, Mitchell), we've stolen some great undervalued talent from other teams, and, other than the aforementioned 4&5 SPs, we haven't given up dick. Not to mention the fact he actually wants to win. Other than a hiccup here or there, he doesn't sign bad contracts that are anchors to this team.

 

OG is the problem with this team. For a guy who has played as much baseball as he has, watched as much baseball as he has, and coached as much as he has...the guy makes some of the most idiotic management decisions I've ever seen....and it's getting worse! You'd think he'd have learned by now what works well and what doesn't but, nope, he just continues to make the same poor choices. I hope he's gone before opening day.

 

[soxsoxsoxsox]

KW has been an absolute Godsend to this franchise.

 

They've made the playoffs two out of the last 10 years? The Twins have been there 6 times in that span. Also the cornerstone players Konerko and Buerhle were drafted by Schueler.

 

[elrockinMT]

They will both stay as long as Jerry Reinsdorf is the owner. If anyone moves on my guess it is Kenny but only to a higher position in the org. They will most likely both be in their usual spots come 2011

[kitekrazy]

They will both stay as long as Jerry Reinsdorf is the owner. If anyone moves on my guess it is Kenny but only to a higher position in the org. They will most likely both be in their usual spots come 2011

 

If people were more rational about it neither one deserves to lose their job. This current team is closer to winning 90 than losing 90.

Pitching was suppose top be the strength of this team was a failure at the beginning and in August. Last night was another example. Sure the hitting failed in the clutch at times but so did Danks when he had the lead late in the game.

 

[kitekrazy]

They've made the playoffs two out of the last 10 years? The Twins have been there 6 times in that span. Also the cornerstone players Konerko and Buerhle were drafted by Schueler.

 

They don't have a World Series to show for it. Do you think Twin fans are content with that?