Keeping Kenny or Keeping Ozzie

[greg775]

You don't agree with me Ozzie made a lot of loot? Enough to live on this life and next?

[LittleHurt05]

You don't agree with me Ozzie made a lot of loot? Enough to live on this life and next?

 

I never said that. I just said that the era of big contracts really started when he was managing. Of course he made hella loot, might have even made more as a manager than a player, I dont know.

[beautox]

Not sure who should go, but neither one will. If I had my pick I'd say Kenny Williams, it seems he just makes trades now for the sake of trading and has now shipped 3 excellent starting pitchers...all young...all cheap to other teams for overpriced players (Peavy), crappy players (Swisher) or guys who won't be around very long anyway (Jackson).

 

Having faith in the young guys, faith in your coaching would have eliminated the necessity of having to go get Jake Peavy or Edwin Jackson, which would have freed up money to address the disgusting situation at third base.

 

And speaking of third base, what drug was Williams on thinking a guy who Kansas City dumped off third base could come to Chicago and man that position? Mark Teahen plays terrible terrible defense and has absolutely no power for a corner fielder. So what is his use again? On a championship team?

 

All told the outfield wasn't halfbad even with CQ's struggles this year. Rios had a good year...Quentin could still get to 30 homers and Piere will steal 60+ bases. Although defensively the OF is still average at best.

 

It appears none of the players obtained for Vazquez will amount to much. Flowers will need to really come on next year, but overall he looks awful. Lillibridge wasn't so bad, but looks to me like a utility type. Given what we have given up for players, it seems we surely didn't max our value for Javy.

 

Kenny Williams is just like the dude in your fantasy league who just likes making trades.

 

I've been thinking alot about this since the sox traded for jackson. As much as we sox fans rag on our farm system and complain about its rankings; it has produced some very solid major leaguers. I like other posters just wish KW could the teams long term financial stability into its proper perspective as well as letting our farm system bail us out. I doubt any GM would've kept this core but its interesting to think about; the white sox could've fielded a very competitive homegrown or acquired team on the cheap with plenty of money to lock them up long term, acquire whatever was needed and invest internationally and in the draft.

 

TL;DR Sox could've fielded a good cheap homegrown team *some cherry picking moves*

 

DH - {Quentin} Re-signing Thome or PK in the offseason

C - Huge hole here, re up with AJ or make a bold trade in the offseason

1B - Brandon Allen or Vicideo

2B - Beckham

SS - Ramirez

3B - Morel

LF - Rios {Quentin}

CF - Young

RF - Sweeney {Quentin}

 

SP - Danks

SP - Floyd

SP - Gonzalez

SP - Hudson

SP - Richard

 

LR - Poreda

LO - Logan

MR - Jenks

MR - Infante

SU - Santos

SU - Thornton

CL - Sale

 

to me its kind of mind blowing how much above average talent the sox have given up, if they could've just done a better job evaluating from within in addition to the shrewd pick ups they acquired {Santos, Threets, Floyd, Quentin, Rios, Thornton & Jenks} they would be a model of efficiency.

[caulfield12]

I've been thinking alot about this since the sox traded for jackson. As much as we sox fans rag on our farm system and complain about its rankings; it has produced some very solid major leaguers. I like other posters just wish KW could the teams long term financial stability into its proper perspective as well as letting our farm system bail us out. I doubt any GM would've kept this core but its interesting to think about; the white sox could've fielded a very competitive homegrown or acquired team on the cheap with plenty of money to lock them up long term, acquire whatever was needed and invest internationally and in the draft.

 

TL;DR Sox could've fielded a good cheap homegrown team *some cherry picking moves*

 

DH - {Quentin} Re-signing Thome or PK in the offseason

C - Huge hole here, re up with AJ or make a bold trade in the offseason

1B - Brandon Allen or Vicideo

2B - Beckham

SS - Ramirez

3B - Morel

LF - Rios {Quentin}

CF - Young

RF - Sweeney {Quentin}

 

SP - Danks

SP - Floyd

SP - Gonzalez

SP - Hudson

SP - Richard

 

LR - Poreda

LO - Logan

MR - Jenks

MR - Infante

SU - Santos

SU - Thornton

CL - Sale

 

to me its kind of mind blowing how much above average talent the sox have given up, if they could've just done a better job evaluating from within in addition to the shrewd pick ups they acquired {Santos, Threets, Floyd, Quentin, Rios, Thornton & Jenks} they would be a model of efficiency.

 

 

Mind blowing?

 

You're joking right. By the way, it's interesting nobody is talking about Chris Carter anymore...maybe that 0 for 30-something stretch has something to do with it.

 

Young, Hudson and Gio Gonzalez are the only players on that list with close to All-Star ability. Hudson, Gio and Richard all pitch in the West, where there are weaker-hitting ballclubs and larger stadiums that artificially keep a pitcher's numbers down. Look at Jon Garland. Heck, even John Ely and Charles Haeger occasionally looked good pitching in the NL West.

 

Infante one of the top four relievers? Really?

 

 

[kitekrazy]

It's the same damn saga almost every year. When Ozzie's your manager, your team will suck late in the year, even if the rotating DH is in effect. We're like the anti-Rockies. Maybe Ozzie should ask Jim Tracy how he keeps his guys so fresh in September.

 

Blaming the leaders. If you want to go that route, the strength of the team is now the weakness. Pitching was disappointing in the beginning and now. Should Coop get this lifetime free pass? It seems like he can get a good year or two out of pitchers and then a steady decline. How many of the younger guys have progressed on this team? Not Danks or Floyd.

 

Another whacked out theory I have is the Sox organization overlooks mental skills. Too often I've seen enough of the younger pitchers, getting two quick outs and can't finish. They also can't pitch to cover up a fielder's mistake. I guess that's why they aquired Peavy because of his mental game. To do something for the staff that is beyond Coop's abilities.

 

The Twins know they don't have to beat the Sox, because they know the Sox will beat themselves.

 

Why is it that with changing rosters and 2 managers in this decade, they still can't beat the Twins? Maybe they aquire players who can't perform in pressure situations. Getting players from habitual losing organizations like the Royals doesn't help. Getting players from the NL takes longer for them to make adjustments since the AL seems superior in every way.

 

If the team falls to 3rd place, then get rid of Kenny, Ozzie, Coop and Walker.

 

 

 

[DirtySox]

Oney recently tweeted that the following article was "interesting." Take that as you will.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...htm?csp=usat.me

[Dick Allen]

Oney recently tweeted that the following article was "interesting." Take that as you will.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...htm?csp=usat.me

As much as JR really likes Ozzie, I'm sure if Ozzie left, he would consider not having to hear about Oney everyday a blessing. For a while I really didn't care if he left or stayed, but I really would want him to go now. If he even twists, he really doesn't want to be here, so fine, hit the road. The White Sox will live on. Ozzie, contrary to Oney's beliefs, doesn't have a patent on championships. I just think Ozzie is like a child needing people to say "don't leave, please don't leave" so he threatens to do just that occassionally. Call his bluff, see what happens.

[fathom]

Seems like Ozzie and Sox might go their separate ways in a few months if JR/KW don't extend his contract

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2031227.story

[whitesoxfan101]

Seems like Ozzie and Sox might go their separate ways in a few months if JR/KW don't extend his contract

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2031227.story

 

Don't get my hopes up like that fathom.

[VAfan]

I think people lose perspective rather quickly. It's like people wanting to vote back in the Republicans because the country hasn't rebounded from the ditch they drove us into over the 8 years of George Bush. INSANE!

 

Ozzie and Kenny brought the Sox the only World Series winning team in my lifetime. My father lived into his 80s, but he never saw the White Sox win the World Series, and he only saw them play in it once.

 

That buys them a huge amount of rope in my eyes. And it's not as if the Sox have failed to be competitive in the other years that KW and Ozzie were in charge. Only one year have we really been completely out of it.

 

So, my short answer would be that I'd rather let these guys work it out and try to fix the team before I'd jettison either one of them. All of their moves do not work. But many of them have.

 

Now, if Ozzie wants to jump ship to the Marlins, then I would say, BYE. I think Kenny's response is perfect. You were hired because you bleed for the Chicago White Sox. If Ozzie ever loses that passion, he's no longer valuable to the team. But if Ozzie realizes he was just saying that out of a momentary funk, then I'd have no problem keeping him around.

[chisoxt]

I think people lose perspective rather quickly. It's like people wanting to vote back in the Republicans because the country hasn't rebounded from the ditch they drove us into over the 8 years of George Bush. INSANE!

 

Ozzie and Kenny brought the Sox the only World Series winning team in my lifetime. My father lived into his 80s, but he never saw the White Sox win the World Series, and he only saw them play in it once.

 

That buys them a huge amount of rope in my eyes. And it's not as if the Sox have failed to be competitive in the other years that KW and Ozzie were in charge. Only one year have we really been completely out of it.

 

So, my short answer would be that I'd rather let these guys work it out and try to fix the team before I'd jettison either one of them. All of their moves do not work. But many of them have.

 

Now, if Ozzie wants to jump ship to the Marlins, then I would say, BYE. I think Kenny's response is perfect. You were hired because you bleed for the Chicago White Sox. If Ozzie ever loses that passion, he's no longer valuable to the team. But if Ozzie realizes he was just saying that out of a momentary funk, then I'd have no problem keeping him around.

One of my biggest fears as a Sox fan after 2005 was that there would be a complete lack of accountability on the part of Sox management and indifference on some fan's part because we did something that year that no one ever thopught we would do. Since 2005, we have seen a GM make several 'who cares if it doesn't work out, I won us a world championship' trades, and a manager who make coutless careless and questionable in game moves, and when his not in-game managing, can't stop alienating fans and running off his mouth.

 

Sad to say, these fears have been realized.

[greg775]

One of my biggest fears as a Sox fan after 2005 was that there would be a complete lack of accountability on the part of Sox management and indifference on some fan's part because we did something that year that no one ever thopught we would do. Since 2005, we have seen a GM make several 'who cares if it doesn't work out, I won us a world championship' trades, and a manager who make coutless careless and questionable in game moves, and when his not in-game managing, can't stop alienating fans and running off his mouth.

 

Sad to say, these fears have been realized.

 

Except for the Bulls, Chicago has had a tough time keeping it going after a wonderful moment.

Hopefully the Blackhawks can keep winning.

Are the Hawks expected to continue dominating after the offseason switches? It's kind of funny they let the goalie who won it all walk.

[LittleHurt05]

Except for the Bulls, Chicago has had a tough time keeping it going after a wonderful moment.

Hopefully the Blackhawks can keep winning.

Are the Hawks expected to continue dominating after the offseason switches? It's kind of funny they let the goalie who won it all walk.

 

Its easy to keep it going when you have Michael Jordan.

 

The Bears should have had more success but it turns out Da Coach wasn't as good as everyone in Chicago claims he is.

 

The Blackhawks have 5 of their best players signed for at least the next 5 years, I wouldn't worry about them and their rookie goalie walking away, who had the best defense in front of him. No offense to Antti, he can play, but the Hawks defense was incredible.

 

 

[greg775]

Good, as a hockey frontrunner I will remain on the bandwagon.

[NorthSideSox72]

Except for the Bulls, Chicago has had a tough time keeping it going after a wonderful moment.

Let's have some perspective here.

 

1. Chicago is the only city with championships in all four major sports in the past 25 years.

 

2. You think the Chicago sports scene is dismal now, you must not have been in Chicago very long. Before the Bulls' runs in the 90's, you had a bunch of nothing for decades before that, with the '85 Bears the one exception.

 

[southsider2k5]

Let's have some perspective here.

 

1. Chicago is the only city with championships in all four major sports in the past 25 years.

 

2. You think the Chicago sports scene is dismal now, you must not have been in Chicago very long. Before the Bulls' runs in the 90's, you had a bunch of nothing for decades before that, with the '85 Bears the one exception.

 

No joke. Check out the 70s if you really want to see bad sports in Chicago. The most exciting Sox team was the one in 1977 that ended up finishing 4th.

[Milkman delivers]

Its easy to keep it going when you have Michael Jordan.

 

The Bears should have had more success but it turns out Da Coach wasn't as good as everyone in Chicago claims he is.

 

The Blackhawks have 5 of their best players signed for at least the next 5 years, I wouldn't worry about them and their rookie goalie walking away, who had the best defense in front of him. No offense to Antti, he can play, but the Hawks defense was incredible.

 

Just about the most overrated sports figure, not just in this city, but in all of sports. And by most accounts, just a piece of s*** human being. To this day, Ditka feasts off of the accomplishments of Buddy Ryan and coasts through life as an icon. I hate him so much.