Keeping Kenny or Keeping Ozzie

[LittleHurt05]

Which is opposed to most other GM's mantras of "I really hope we lose."

 

I'm pretty sure that was Dave Littlefield's mantra with the Pirates. Thats the only way to explain all the awful moves he made.

[chiguy79]

Hopefully they get beyond their issues but if I had to pick, pack your bags Ozzie...no more drama...

 

Both guys have big primadona egos so eventually that relationship is doomed.

[soxrwhite]

Keep them both and lets play ball.

[BigSqwert]

Keep them both and lets play ball.

Nothing like zero accountability.

[shago]

Teahen is underrated by so many people it's ridiculous. So what that our hot streak coincided with his injury, it was pure coincidence. The Sox have just misused Teahen this year.

You sir are out of your frickin' mind!!!

[chw42]

Does Hahn have a track record? Does he know what he's doing?

 

I'd boot Kenny. Keep Ozzie but revamp the team back to a plodding home run hitting team to go with our supposed great pitching staff.

I'd never bunt to keep Soxtalk happy and tell Ozzie no NL style ball anymore.

With all the home run hitters, I'd still put a great defensive team out there somehow as well.

 

Fire Kenny. Keep Ozzie. Pray Hahn is good GM.

 

lol, Ozzie would spit in your face and tell you to go f*** yourself.

[NorthSideSox72]

While veiled, my point was that he doesn't believe in 5 year rebuilds....he always wants to be competitive.

And so far, that general model has worked pretty well. Its also the only way to keep the fans coming to games, and directly and indirectly means more money coming in, which means more payroll. That's how this club works, so his model is a necessity.

 

KW screwed the pooch on the Jackson/Hudson deal, though I do like Jackson. KW also deserves a small part of the blame for the DH mess, though that was mostly Ozzie's call.

 

[Butter Parque]

Ozzie was rid of Teahen soon enouugh.

Peavy was not injury riddled before he came here. He's had two freak injuries. Also, the Clayton Richard overvaluing needs to stop. He was a 5th starter at best here.

Quentin's blame is solely on him.

Ozzie had two other closers in the pen available.

Not Ozzie's fault for Williams.

Scott Linebrink has not lost the Sox an unworldly amount of games this year. He's been fine, just massively overpaid.

Ozzie didn't do Gordon any favors by having him bunt into outs to start the year, but thats on Gordon.

Ozzie is responsible 99% for the rotating DH bulls***.

Thome had low averages but an OBP of .362 and .372 in those years.

 

I'd be fine with both of them back next year, but I prefer Kenny all the way to Ozzie and that's because Ozzie is the one who insisted on playing NL style slappy run baseball and run into out after out after out after out.

 

This is Peavy's third straight season spending significant time on the DL.

 

So, by your logic, then every player who has a bad year is to blame instead of his bosses who keep him here for it. I guess Mark Kotsay only has himself to blame for our second place finish.

 

Gordon bunting was his best option early on,at least he could hope for a throwing error.

 

I think I saw how Putz did in the closer's role when called upon against Detroit.

 

I didn't say Linebrink cost us a lot of games, but in July, if Ozzie would have brought Linebrink into a 1 run lead, your would have been calling for his head.

 

Thome had pretty high OBP's for us in his last two seasons, but I didn't notice him making much of a difference game in and game out. Thome has the same amount of home runs in a hundred less AB's this season. Do you really think he would have looked reborn with us? Fat Chance. He also has one more double than last season already and 36 less strikeouts. In the same way that Lew Ford, Danny Valencia, Jason Tyner and Doug Mientkiewicz probably wouldn't hit the same way for other teams as they do with Minnesota, the same can be said about Thome. I truly believe Thome would have had a similar season for us this year, that he had last year, and while that may still be much better than Kotsay, that also doesn't make him a difference maker.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Ozzie is a tactical disaster and has this offense dangerously close to underperforming even Pre-Manny projections. Kenny Williams has holes in his game theory; Ozzie takes those and digs them even further.

[DirtySox]

I'd really like to see both gone, but I don't see that happening.

 

I want to see Hahn given a shot to build a team and a farm system that could sustain success. The speculation that Kenny is going to move to VP with Hahn taking over would make me happy.

 

Supposedly Hahn is a candidate for the Mets GM job though.

[kitekrazy]

Thome had pretty high OBP's for us in his last two seasons, but I didn't notice him making much of a difference game in and game out. Thome has the same amount of home runs in a hundred less AB's this season. Do you really think he would have looked reborn with us? Fat Chance. He also has one more double than last season already and 36 less strikeouts. In the same way that Lew Ford, Danny Valencia, Jason Tyner and Doug Mientkiewicz probably wouldn't hit the same way for other teams as they do with Minnesota, the same can be said about Thome. I truly believe Thome would have had a similar season for us this year, that he had last year, and while that may still be much better than Kotsay, that also doesn't make him a difference maker.

 

Excellent. It's not like Kenny had a chance to replace those 24HR, 77 RBIs. Gardenhire probably handled Thome's playing time better than the Sox would have. He also got to see better pitches batting 7th. Thome's not going to be helping them as much help if that cold air moves in Oct for home games and you never know what will happen in NY. If the Twins face TB, I like their chances because Thome will be in the lineup in that dome.

 

This isn't the first guy we've seen go to another organization and have better success. Often it's in more consistent winning organizations. Environment has something to do with it. People forget that even in more team oriented sports like football.

 

[Balta1701]

He also got to see better pitches batting 7th.

Really? We went through this barely 2 days ago on the exact opposite argument...that Thome sees better pitches because the Twins have a better lineup. None of it makes any sense to me. You don't give a guy with a 1.000 OPS better pitches just because he's hitting 6th.

[Soxfest]

I want them BOTH gone!

[JoeBatterz]

 

I don't mind keeping them both.

 

If you want to replace, tell me who is going to replace them and how they will be an improvement.

 

[Rowand44]

I've been a huge Kenny backer through out the years but at this point I really don't care if he gets removed. Ozzie has to go though imo. That being said, we all know that they'll both be back.

[kitekrazy]

Nothing like zero accountability.

 

I guess if you want to go that route, they both stay. Team will win more game this season than last, without the production of two guys who produced a total of 51 HRs, 156 RBIs. They will come close to matching last year's production. So more stealing, bunting, giving up outs hasn't really hurt. The only thing that hurts is the team in your division is playing extremely high winning percentage since the ASB.

 

On paper it appears Danks is improving but you have to question his mental makeup.

Floyd is getting worse.

 

The biggest improvement has been the fielding.

 

Steve Rosenbloom made a good point about ignoring the health of the pen and let the pitchers play doctor.

 

I'd still like to have those 5 games back the pen blew.

 

[Balta1701]

I guess if you want to go that route, they both stay. Team will win more game this season than last, without the production of two guys who produced a total of 51 HRs, 156 RBIs. They will come close to matching last year's production. So more stealing, bunting, giving up outs hasn't really hurt. The only thing that hurts is the team in your division is playing extremely high winning percentage since the ASB.

 

On paper it appears Danks is improving but you have to question his mental makeup.

Floyd is getting worse.

 

The biggest improvement has been the fielding.

 

Steve Rosenbloom made a good point about ignoring the health of the pen and let the pitchers play doctor.

 

I'd still like to have those 5 games back the pen blew.

Your conclusion that more giving up outs hasn't really hurt doesn't follow from the data one bit. If hypothetically we had a significantly better overall team this year than last, but we lost 2-3 games because of foolishly bad baserunning mistakes and giving up too many outs, the team's record could easily still improve.

 

Furthermore...you quoted Thome and Dye's raw power and RBI numbers...while ignoring things like how much JD struggled in the 2nd half of last year...and the fact that some of that production was replaced by bringing in Andruw Jones and a better season from Alex Rios.

[kitekrazy]

I don't mind keeping them both.

 

If you want to replace, tell me who is going to replace them and how they will be an improvement.

 

 

Most people confuse different with better. It still comes down to the 25 man roster.

I wonder what a Twins board was like when the Sox took over 1st when their team held that spot for some time? I doubt they are any different than most sports fans. I'm sure there are fans who think Gardenhire can't take the team to the next level. A prophet is never favored in their own town. I've even read where Pats fans wanted to trade Tom Brady after their playoff beating.

 

I think there's a lot of over reaction. I could understand it if the Sox held 1st place most of the season. They didn't.

 

If the Twins are out in the 1st round, it would be interesting to see their reactions.

 

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Your conclusion that more giving up outs hasn't really hurt doesn't follow from the data one bit. If hypothetically we had a significantly better overall team this year than last, but we lost 2-3 games because of foolishly bad baserunning mistakes and giving up too many outs, the team's record could easily still improve.

 

Furthermore...you quoted Thome and Dye's raw power and RBI numbers...while ignoring things like how much JD struggled in the 2nd half of last year...and the fact that some of that production was replaced by bringing in Andruw Jones and a better season from Alex Rios.

 

It wasn't suppose to. I wanted to try to smash the square peg into a round hole like others around here. You did well in following up with the 2-3 games we lost. Let's cherry pick, shall we? How many games did we win with aggressive base running?

 

 

 

[Butter Parque]

Your conclusion that more giving up outs hasn't really hurt doesn't follow from the data one bit. If hypothetically we had a significantly better overall team this year than last, but we lost 2-3 games because of foolishly bad baserunning mistakes and giving up too many outs, the team's record could easily still improve.

 

Furthermore...you quoted Thome and Dye's raw power and RBI numbers...while ignoring things like how much JD struggled in the 2nd half of last year...and the fact that some of that production was replaced by bringing in Andruw Jones and a better season from Alex Rios.

 

When we lost last year, people said we needed to stop being a plodding base to base team. Now that we have more speed and less power, people want to go back to the old style. Perhaps we should strike a a balance between the two. There is a solution to this whole getting run out of innings dilemma. Perhaps we should teach guys like Alexei and Beckham to learn how to steal bases and read pitchers. With all of Alexei's speed, he rarely gets good jumps, the same goes for Beckham.

 

When your team is built the way it is built (in the case, less power, more speed) keeping your runners at a stand still would be a disaster. They have to be in motion to be effective. Is it reckless? of course, but that's how it is with the team we have. You steal a bunch and your thrown out a bunch. It's quite similar to waiting for home runs. Sometimes it works out great, other times you ground into killer double plays.

[greg775]

Teahen is underrated by so many people it's ridiculous. So what that our hot streak coincided with his injury, it was pure coincidence. The Sox have just misused Teahen this year. He should be playing 3-4 times a week in a super utility role playing 3rd (in a pinch), 2nd, 1st, LF and RF giving average D in most of the positions and solid offense of a bench player. It's just Ozzie and Kenny thought he was a starter at third (his worst defensive position), which I don't get. Didn't they watch tape or look at his fielding metrics to know how poor he plays over there? I am still a Teahen fan, and he still can have value as a utility player. If only he was paid like one.

 

Swisher is an overrated hitter and bad fielder. He has had like one really good here in his career and it's come hitting in baseball's best lineup in a ballpark designed for him.

 

Clayton is a backend AL starter and nothing special.

 

You didn't have to watch Teahen for years in KC as I did.

He is a strikeout machine who can't field no matter where you put him.

He is a nice guy though, and for that I do commend him.

I also contend he uses a ridiculously large bat making me think he thinks of himself as a home run hitter which he is not.

He's not much of a hitter period.

 

[Quin]

This is Peavy's third straight season spending significant time on the DL.

So, by your logic, then every player who has a bad year is to blame instead of his bosses who keep him here for it. I guess Mark Kotsay only has himself to blame for our second place finish.

 

Gordon bunting was his best option early on,at least he could hope for a throwing error.

 

I think I saw how Putz did in the closer's role when called upon against Detroit.

 

I didn't say Linebrink cost us a lot of games, but in July, if Ozzie would have brought Linebrink into a 1 run lead, your would have been calling for his head.

 

Thome had pretty high OBP's for us in his last two seasons, but I didn't notice him making much of a difference game in and game out. Thome has the same amount of home runs in a hundred less AB's this season. Do you really think he would have looked reborn with us? Fat Chance. He also has one more double than last season already and 36 less strikeouts. In the same way that Lew Ford, Danny Valencia, Jason Tyner and Doug Mientkiewicz probably wouldn't hit the same way for other teams as they do with Minnesota, the same can be said about Thome. I truly believe Thome would have had a similar season for us this year, that he had last year, and while that may still be much better than Kotsay, that also doesn't make him a difference maker.

 

Where did I say that? Go on, point it out. It's on players as much as it is management. Should we have dumped Paulie after 2007 or even last year? No. on the other side, did we ride out Quentin's tenure? Yes, but Kenny tried to trade him.

 

In 2008 Peavy missed a handful of starts, a lot of starters do. This and last year have been freak injuries for him.

Gordon bunting was not the best option. I remember countless posts raving about how taking the bat out of his hands could mess with his confidence and for all we know it could have.

 

I was at the game where Putz blew it. He had a knee injury at this point.

 

I never hated Linebrink and early in the year he showed he could get it done. I have not cringed once at his pitching this year, just his contract.

 

It doesn't matter if Thome would do the same with us, he would have been an improvement over Kotsay and taken away from the Twins. They would have lost a major bat. Plus, not many people made a difference in 2009. Alex Rios didn't, Paul Konerko was ok. There weren't many difference makers on the '09 team.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm lovin' this Butter Parque guy. Maybe it's because I have the munchies and I want a giant tub of butter popcorn with extra salt?

[Quin]

I'm lovin' this Butter Parque guy. Maybe it's because I have the munchies and I want a giant tub of butter popcorn with extra salt?

 

 

[Dick Allen]

There are more and more rumors Ozzie could be leaving.