Ridiculously long, good Posnanski article on KW.

[kev211]

Some of the anti-kw post in this thread are sickening. You guys act like KW has given us 0 winning seasons and left this team doomed when in reality he's brought us a world series and one of the most successful decades in the franchises history.

 

Edit: Awesome article.

Edited September 16, 2010 by kev211

[Butter Parque]

2 playoff appearances in 10 years isn't good enough.

 

A team that is skull-f****d year in and year out by it's division rival is not good enough

Edited September 17, 2010 by Butter Parque

[Jordan4life_2007]

Some of the anti-kw post in this thread are sickening. You guys act like KW has given us 0 winning seasons and left this team doomed when in reality he's brought us a world series and one of the most successful decades in the franchises history.

 

Edit: Awesome article.

 

I say this with the utmost respect...WHO THE f*** CARES? That was FIVE years ago. He doesn't get a free pass for life because of that one season. He's been average at best (straight bad the last two seasons) since then. The '05 Sox have '85 Bears written all over it. Makes me sick. Have some higher expectation, people.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Jordan4life

[kev211]

2 playoff appearances in 10 years isn't good enough.

 

A team that is skull-f****d year in and year out by it's division rival is not good enough

So you'd rather be the twins then? Make the playoffs every year but lose in the 1st round.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So you'd rather be the twins then? Make the playoffs every year but lose in the 1st round.

 

Yes, I would. Well, kinda. If you can absolutely guarantee me 1 title in 5 years then of course I'd have that. But give me the team that consistently puts itself in a position to get that title over a 1-year wonder any day of the week.

[ILMOU]

If Bill Beane had Reinsdorf as an owner with a bigger payroll, we would be a perennial threat for a pennant more often than not. Beane constantly develops and trades for good young players. He doesn't have the money at his disposal to make a splash or even re-sign his own.

 

Every GM has done some really dumb things and KW is no exception. Overall, he's still been pretty good.

 

One thing I can tell you with certainty - KW has never traded away a player half as good as Carlos Gonzalez. The prospects Beane got from the Cards for Holliday may be good, but CarGo will be a top 5-10 player in the game, if he isn't already. Billy will deservedly have nightmares for the next decade about that one.

[Butter Parque]

The Carlos Gonzalez deal looked like a bad one from day one if you kid ever seen the kid play, but Beane is good in that he produces a talent well, based around pitching that can give him flexibility. Now give him a $100 million dollar payroll and I think he would do wonders.

 

As far as making the playoffs every year compared to one world series title: The championship is great and will always be great but if we made the playoffs 8 out of every 10 years, our odds wold be greater of getting hot in the playoffs and winning a championship. As much as I love the title, I want to still be interested in baseball in September and October. That's what I want more than anything from the guy who is GM. That's what Terry Ryan and Billy Smith have built.

 

I'd also like a team to have a fresh start against Minnesota. Next year, those demons will still be in our head's, why would I have confidence that's we'd all of a sudden overcome them. I'd like to have pitchers who aren't scared of Minnesota and hitters that don;t grip the bat too tight when runners are on base.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Butter Parque

[NorthSideSox72]

I thought the piece was very well written, well thought out. The reactions around here priceless comedy.

Seriously. 2007 was worse than this? We're already not a contender in 2011?

 

[Butter Parque]

Seriously. 2007 was worse than this? We're already not a contender in 2011?

 

Give me a reason to be optimistic

[kitekrazy]

Give me a reason to be optimistic

 

 

We are going to petition to have Selig put the Sox in the NL, Cubs in the AL.

[kitekrazy]

The championship is great and will always be great but if we made the playoffs 8 out of every 10 years, our odds wold be greater of getting hot in the playoffs and winning a championship. As much as I love the title, I want to still be interested in baseball in September and October.

 

Howz that been workin for the Twins?

 

[Butter Parque]

Every year they have an opportunity to win a championship, we don't. Their odds are greater than ours right now.

[NorthSideSox72]

Give me a reason to be optimistic

 

 

We are going to petition to have Selig put the Sox in the NL, Cubs in the AL.

 

You guys are seriously priceless. This team, despite losing their ace pitcher for most of the year, the worst year their closer has had, and having nothing at DH, is going to win in the territory of 90 games... has guys like Sale and Santos developing and a truly solid 5 man rotation if not more, with only one well-performing player going to free agency... and you are already writing off 2011? In September of 2010?

 

I mean, nothing is guaranteed, but you'd think reading this that this was a Royals or Pirates board.

 

 

[Paint it Black]

I think Kenny deserves his share of the blame for our flop. Getting Peavy has not helped the team in the least and getting Jackson did not impact the race a bit either. The Manny move was a complete joke. Just make Viciedo the DH and he'd have had as good an impact as Mr. Singles/No Ribbies.

 

Just make Manny the DH and he'd have had as good an impact as Mr. no walks/small sample size

 

 

[Paint it Black]

Wait, so what the KW narrative? That he sucked because he didn't get a bat at the deadline? Or is it he sucks because he got a perennial MVP slugger who hasn't hit within a small sample size. I'm confused.

[caulfield12]

Well, one thing's absolutely for certain.

 

If/when the Twins do win the World Series, we won't have this 1 WS title and 12 playoff victories versus 6 playoff appearances in 9 years (and very nearly a 7th) and only one series win (against the A's) argument.

 

I think that Beane's approach with a $100 million payroll gives us a chance to build something for 2-3-4 years and at least a 30-50% chance to beat the Twins every year.

 

If you read the KW article, one thing that stands out is his propensity for tinkering...it's like he can never stick with a plan for more than one year without deconstructing it and throwing together another blueprint that might lead to success or disaster, but usually ends up somewhere in the middle. And that's always the elephant in the room for the Sox...to be great, we'd have to be horrible for 3-5 years and be in a "reloading" process.

 

The problem is that KW doesn't have the patience to do that (remember how many times they said they'd never want to go through another 2007 again, both Ozzie and KW?) and the revenue loss in terms of season tickets, walk up and advertising/sponsors would be tremendous. We'd be back to the late 80's or late 90's again and talking about moving the team even to one of the few gullible/naive and economically anomalous markets left in the US, Mexico and Caribbean.

 

The thing is, if you told White Sox fans they would have to suffer for four or five years with teams winning 65-75 games, then you'd be rewarded with at least one World Series appearance, most Sox fans would take that bargain. But the counterexample will always be where is that World Series for the Pirates, Orioles, Indians (they were close), Nationals, Royals, Blue Jays, Mariners, etc.

Edited September 17, 2010 by caulfield12

[Paint it Black]

Beane constantly develops and trades for good young players. He doesn't have the money at his disposal to make a splash or even re-sign his own.

 

I love Kenny for what he did in leading up to 2005, but since then, things have been a disaster.

 

P.S. describing Floyd as consistent is borderline lunacy

 

Except Beane really hasn't developed anyone, position player as least (their pitching looks pretty good, albeit a bit overstated with that pitchers park). I think they have about 76 outfielders on their 25 man roster who are all bad. Plus, the A's had a lot of money top spend last offseason and failed hard.

 

Also, to say KW has been a disaster since 2005 fails so, so much.

 

2006- 90 wins with a pitching staff that pitched an extra month the year before.

2007- ok disaster

2008- division title

2009- contended for most of the year, wouldn't call it a failure

2010- could win 90 games again

 

...speaking of borderline lunacy

[Paint it Black]

If you read the KW article, one thing that stands out is his propensity for tinkering...it's like he can never stick with a plan for more than one year without deconstructing it and throwing together another blueprint that might lead to success or disaster, but usually ends up somewhere in the middle. And that's always the elephant in the room for the Sox...to be great, we'd have to be horrible for 3-5 years and be in a "reloading" process.

 

The problem is that KW doesn't have the patience to do that (remember how many times they said they'd never want to go through another 2007 again, both Ozzie and KW?) and the revenue loss in terms of season tickets, walk up and advertising/sponsors would be tremendous. We'd be back to the late 80's or late 90's again and talking about moving the team even to one of the few gullible/naive and economically anomalous markets left in the US, Mexico and Caribbean.

 

I'm just throwing s*** at the wall here, but you might be onto something there, as far as the White Sox have not shown the ability to build any kind of farm system. I'm not saying that trading away the "prospects" that they have recently (Richard, Hudson etc) was bad, because really, name anyone you want and the White Sox have been right (and yeah I'm counting Geo and Young, I'm not a believer).

 

I think the lack of a talent pipeline is the only thing I really have not liked about KW in the 10 or so years. Admittedly, it's been better with Beckham and Sale (and I liked the Mitchell draft, the injury is just bad luck). And maybe some of this is on ownership who have been unwilling to spend money in the draft.

[Butter Parque]

Except Beane really hasn't developed anyone, position player as least (their pitching looks pretty good, albeit a bit overstated with that pitchers park). I think they have about 76 outfielders on their 25 man roster who are all bad. Plus, the A's had a lot of money top spend last offseason and failed hard.

 

Also, to say KW has been a disaster since 2005 fails so, so much.

 

2006- 90 wins with a pitching staff that pitched an extra month the year before.

2007- ok disaster

2008- division title

2009- contended for most of the year, wouldn't call it a failure

2010- could win 90 games again

 

...speaking of borderline lunacy

 

I only see one playoff season in there. Perhaps I am a lunatic for wanting to get to to the postseason. Too many people here settle for mediocrity. This whole, "at least we're not the Royals" sentiment is depressing.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Butter Parque

[fathom]

I only see one playoff season in there. Perhaps I am a lunatic for wanting to get to to the postseason. To many people here settle for mediocrity. This whole, "at least we're not the Royals" sentiment is depressing.

 

We won't be saying that in 3 years about KC.

[Butter Parque]

We won't be saying that in 3 years about KC.

 

Yeah, they at lest put runs on the board.

[greg775]

You guys are seriously priceless. This team, despite losing their ace pitcher for most of the year, the worst year their closer has had, and having nothing at DH, is going to win in the territory of 90 games... has guys like Sale and Santos developing and a truly solid 5 man rotation if not more, with only one well-performing player going to free agency... and you are already writing off 2011? In September of 2010?

 

I mean, nothing is guaranteed, but you'd think reading this that this was a Royals or Pirates board.

 

Well that's a glass half full way of lookin at it.

I applaud you for that post.

I'll try to memorize it, cause I want to believe in 2011.

[Paint it Black]

I only see one playoff season in there. Perhaps I am a lunatic for wanting to get to to the postseason. Too many people here settle for mediocrity. This whole, "at least we're not the Royals" sentiment is depressing.

 

Not to sound like a Cubs fan, but since when is 2 (in 2008 they had 89 wins, might win 90 games this year) a disaster? I mean I just think your rhetoric is a bit over the top.

[NorthSideSox72]

Not to sound like a Cubs fan, but since when is 2 (in 2008 they had 89 wins, might win 90 games this year) a disaster? I mean I just think your rhetoric is a bit over the top.

Get used to it. There will be posters with these laughable over the top posts from now until April, saying the Sox are doomed, they suck, its over before it begins, etc. I think its just some people's way of dealing with a frustrating season.

 

[wallyburger]

Williams is disturbed and bitter.