Don't tease me Trib...

[Balta1701]

Uh, wrong. Perhaps you haven't noticed that until earlier this year our offense hasn't been the least bit smart or even fundamental since mid 2006. This is not even close to being true with the pitching.

Really? What fundamentals on offense have we been so bad at, and what things have we gotten better at this year?

 

I feel like this has been flat out the worst year in terms of silly excessive bunts and CS's I've seen. They were better at hitting with 2 outs and RISP this year, but that's a pretty small bit of "Fundamentals".

[TheBigHurt]

Really? What fundamentals on offense have we been so bad at, and what things have we gotten better at this year?

 

I feel like this has been flat out the worst year in terms of silly excessive bunts and CS's I've seen. They were better at hitting with 2 outs and RISP this year, but that's a pretty small bit of "Fundamentals".

 

Oh, COME ON, Balta. You know DAMN WELL our offense has been absolutely horrid since mid-2006. Don't try and tell me otherwise.

[Balta1701]

Oh, COME ON, Balta. You know DAMN WELL our offense has been absolutely horrid since mid-2006. Don't try and tell me otherwise.

Ok...2007 I'll give you as not worth discussing.

 

2008, the Sox were the #5 offense in the AL.

2010, the Sox have been the #6 offense in the AL.

 

2009 the Sox dropped quite a bit...and that fell almost entirely out of JD and Quentin having awful years.

 

 

If that's absolutely horrid, then the only teams in the AL that haven't had absolutely horrid offenses are: the Yankees, Rangers, and Red Sox; every other team has had at least a year well outside of the top 6.

[TheBigHurt]

Ok...2007 I'll give you as not worth discussing.

 

2008, the Sox were the #5 offense in the AL.

2010, the Sox have been the #6 offense in the AL.

 

2009 the Sox dropped quite a bit...and that fell almost entirely out of JD and Quentin having awful years.

 

 

If that's absolutely horrid, then the only teams in the AL that haven't had absolutely horrid offenses are: the Yankees, Rangers, and Red Sox; every other team has had at least a year well outside of the top 6.

 

I did exclude a part of 2010 if you noticed. I DID say since mid 2006. Yet your only refute to my point is 2008. I think my point stands pretty well. And honestly, I really think about 99% of this board agrees with me. As long as you've watched, (even in 2008) this team has been terrible with RISP and has had no plate discipline. That's just the truth.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Well, it's not like we are going to move Pierre anywhere. And quite frankly, he has been a pretty decent player for us.

Pierre is a microcosm of what's wrong with Ozzie. I will agree that Pierre has been "decent" but he's not getting any younger and has a ton of caught stealings. Ozzie over relies on him to a fault. Seems to me Pierre has had less rest than any other starter. I can remember Jones in left a few times during the season .

 

As far as Larussa goes no thanks. Too old, too expensive wants too much control.

[Soxfest]

I want OG & KW gone.............LaRussa as Manager and Rick Hahn as GM! Time for a change it is not working anymore. PS KW go to the raiders PLEASE!

[Balta1701]

Pierre is a microcosm of what's wrong with Ozzie. I will agree that Pierre has been "decent" but he's not getting any younger and has a ton of caught stealings. Ozzie over relies on him to a fault. Seems to me Pierre has had less rest than any other starter. I can remember Jones in left a few times during the season .

 

As far as Larussa goes no thanks. Too old, too expensive wants too much control.

Pierre never gets rest when he's in there. That's one of his things.

 

Yes, Pierre has a lot of CS. However...Pierre isn't the problem on that. He's been reliably at 76% all year on CS's. 75%ish is the magic number where you're actually making a difference. He has a lot of CS because he's stolen a ton of bases.

 

It's actually bothered me more the times he hasn't run rather than the times he has...times when they've bunted with him. Rios, Ramirez are guys that the CS's have bothered me a lot m ore.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Pierre never gets rest when he's in there. That's one of his things.

 

Yes, Pierre has a lot of CS. However...Pierre isn't the problem on that. He's been reliably at 76% all year on CS's. 75%ish is the magic number where you're actually making a difference. He has a lot of CS because he's stolen a ton of bases.

 

It's actually bothered me more the times he hasn't run rather than the times he has...times when they've bunted with him. Rios, Ramirez are guys that the CS's have bothered me a lot m ore.

That's why an over reliance on him has its faults for the future. He would have been CS a lot more if he wasn't so good at avoiding tags when he was basically dead to rights. So right now is he barely passable. Going forward we don't have much to look forward to with him as he will be getting slower and still has a bad arm and no power. His OBP was OK due his getting HBP so many times. It's true there are too many CS by others which brings us back to Ozzie's methods which are questionable in the AL at best where Pierre is still a microcosm of the Ozzie way.

[The Ginger Kid]

Until one of our players winds up dead via DUI.

that's pretty juvenile

[SoxAce]

Pierre never gets rest when he's in there. That's one of his things.

 

Yes, Pierre has a lot of CS. However...Pierre isn't the problem on that. He's been reliably at 76% all year on CS's. 75%ish is the magic number where you're actually making a difference. He has a lot of CS because he's stolen a ton of bases.

 

If it wasn't for his craftiness on certain slides, that 76% would and should be much lower. There has been at least 7-8 times he was actually caught stealing a base, but avoided it either by slides or the SS/2B dropping the ball. His OBP as I've said many times is inflated (people will point oh, he's hitting lower in average... well then that will balance out by his career year in HBP) and don't get me started on his power. To me, he's declining.. and I hope the sox can deal him this off-season... plus I've always hated his game as a player.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If it wasn't for his craftiness on certain slides, that 76% would and should be much lower. There has been at least 7-8 times he was actually caught stealing a base, but avoided it either by slides or the SS/2B dropping the ball. His OBP as I've said many times is inflated (people will point oh, he's hitting lower in average... well then that will balance out by his career year in HBP) and don't get me started on his power. To me, he's declining.. and I hope the sox can deal him this off-season... plus I've always hated his game as a player.

Your post was a microcosm of mine 3 posts above yours.

Edited September 20, 2010 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[witesoxfan]

If it wasn't for his craftiness on certain slides, that 76% would and should be much lower. There has been at least 7-8 times he was actually caught stealing a base, but avoided it either by slides or the SS/2B dropping the ball. His OBP as I've said many times is inflated (people will point oh, he's hitting lower in average... well then that will balance out by his career year in HBP) and don't get me started on his power. To me, he's declining.. and I hope the sox can deal him this off-season... plus I've always hated his game as a player.

 

Sliding is a talent, and if it's his craftiness that has increased his stolen base percentage, than that's to his credit and shouldn't be taken away from him. And, while his OBP is higher due to a career high in his HBP, his BABIP is also 25 points lower than his career average. Some of that is correlated to USCF not being a great park to hit for average, but part of it is attributable to bad luck as well.

 

Juan Pierre isn't a great player, but really, he's been everything the Sox could have asked for and he's been a good player. He'd be better suited hitting 9th than 1st, but he's almost positively going to be worth what the Sox are paying him overall, he's almost certainly going to be worth his salary next season ($5 mill), and he fills a spot in the lineup and brings a different offensive dimension to the club, for whatever that is worth. I think it's more likely that he ends up putting up something closer what he did in his first 2 years in LA next season - .290/.330/.345/.675 with great defense - which will probably end up being worth about 1.5 WAR, give or take based on his defensive performance of course (but it should be good), and he'll be a positive contributing member to the White Sox 2011 team.

[soxrwhite]

I remember when Larussa was here the first time. I have also seen his entire managerial career. If it is time for a change then better him than some unknown or unproven. Right now I'm mad at the world and want big changes. As I said IF these types of changes are made I think Larussa, Duncan and Hahn are good choices. Are we ever going to win another game?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sliding is a talent, and if it's his craftiness that has increased his stolen base percentage, than that's to his credit and shouldn't be taken away from him. And, while his OBP is higher due to a career high in his HBP, his BABIP is also 25 points lower than his career average. Some of that is correlated to USCF not being a great park to hit for average, but part of it is attributable to bad luck as well.

 

Juan Pierre isn't a great player, but really, he's been everything the Sox could have asked for and he's been a good player. He'd be better suited hitting 9th than 1st, but he's almost positively going to be worth what the Sox are paying him overall, he's almost certainly going to be worth his salary next season ($5 mill), and he fills a spot in the lineup and brings a different offensive dimension to the club, for whatever that is worth. I think it's more likely that he ends up putting up something closer what he did in his first 2 years in LA next season - .290/.330/.345/.675 with great defense - which will probably end up being worth about 1.5 WAR, give or take based on his defensive performance of course (but it should be good), and he'll be a positive contributing member to the White Sox 2011 team.

 

I hate that I agree with everything you said here. Because Juan Pierre makes me want to hurl. Even when he's playing well he sucks. If that makes any sense.

[Milkman delivers]

Since taking the Cards job in winning seasons:

 

1996 September: 17-9

1998 September: 18-7

2000 September: 19-9

2001 September: 17-5

2002 September: 21-6

2003 September: 13-13

2004 September: 16-12

2005 September: 13-13

2006 September: 12-16 (there's one fade)

2008 September: 12-13 (there's another)

2009 September: 13-13

 

Not sure if August counts as the "stretch run" but the August numbers are even more impressive. I don't know how "usually" gets to mean "always" so I guess I'll have to add that to the dictionary, but on winning seasons, in September, he USUALLY gets his team to play .500 or better. (and I don't know how .500 ball in September is a bad thing) Doesn't seem to bother a team who has been to the WS twice in the last decade (won one), a championship series five times and a divisional series seven times.

 

 

 

I should tell you off like I did to my boy J4L (in a playful way) but you get no such love.. or respect from me.

 

Another thing to wonder is if the Cardinals had already wrapped up their division by the time September rolled around.

[Milkman delivers]

Sliding is a talent, and if it's his craftiness that has increased his stolen base percentage, than that's to his credit and shouldn't be taken away from him. And, while his OBP is higher due to a career high in his HBP, his BABIP is also 25 points lower than his career average. Some of that is correlated to USCF not being a great park to hit for average, but part of it is attributable to bad luck as well.

 

Juan Pierre isn't a great player, but really, he's been everything the Sox could have asked for and he's been a good player. He'd be better suited hitting 9th than 1st, but he's almost positively going to be worth what the Sox are paying him overall, he's almost certainly going to be worth his salary next season ($5 mill), and he fills a spot in the lineup and brings a different offensive dimension to the club, for whatever that is worth. I think it's more likely that he ends up putting up something closer what he did in his first 2 years in LA next season - .290/.330/.345/.675 with great defense - which will probably end up being worth about 1.5 WAR, give or take based on his defensive performance of course (but it should be good), and he'll be a positive contributing member to the White Sox 2011 team.

 

And I'm not sure any of us have seen enough of his career to know if that's something he's always done, and not just a way to compensate for a loss of speed.

[Jerksticks]

Is LaRussa sober? If not, then no way do I want him around any of our players. We don't need some manager sneaking flask rips around the team. You can't just brush that DUI incident aside. Anyone that feels the need to get s***faced is not a real man or any type of man I want around easily-influenced young men coming into riches and stardom for the first time.

[Balta1701]

Is LaRussa sober? If not, then no way do I want him around any of our players. We don't need some manager sneaking flask rips around the team. You can't just brush that DUI incident aside. Anyone that feels the need to get s***faced is not a real man or any type of man I want around easily-influenced young men coming into riches and stardom for the first time.

There's no reason to assume that our current manager is sober either. Ditto every other manager in the league.

 

The difference with LaRussa, as I pointed out quite early in this thread...is that his team has had issues with alcohol that few other teams in the league have had to deal with.

[Jerksticks]

There's no reason to assume that our current manager is sober either. Ditto every other manager in the league.

 

The difference with LaRussa, as I pointed out quite early in this thread...is that his team has had issues with alcohol that few other teams in the league have had to deal with.

 

There aren't reports of Ozzie abusing the legal drug. LaRussa is the only manager who was found passed out behind the wheel at a major intersection. That means he abuses alcohol; he doesn't have the stones to say no to drinks after he gets tipsy. No way is this a role model for young men.

[Wanne]

Thanks for the Temperance Lecture guys...

[caulfield12]

Where's Elliot Ness and the Untouchables when you need them?

Edited September 21, 2010 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

Thanks for the Temperance Lecture guys...

 

Everyone must have watched Boardwalk Empire Sunday night

[Kyyle23]

There's no reason to assume that our current manager is sober either. Ditto every other manager in the league.

 

The difference with LaRussa, as I pointed out quite early in this thread...is that his team has had issues with alcohol that few other teams in the league have had to deal with.

 

What did you point out? You made a backhanded comment, and then didnt say anything when I asked you about it. Hancock got blasted and decided to drive home, i still fail to see how this has anything to do with LaRussa coaching the team? Did he force Hancock to drink and drive?

[Balta1701]

What did you point out? You made a backhanded comment, and then didnt say anything when I asked you about it. Hancock got blasted and decided to drive home, i still fail to see how this has anything to do with LaRussa coaching the team? Did he force Hancock to drink and drive?

You don't think there's any connection between a player who drinks and drives and a manager who does the exact same thing?

[hogan873]

You don't think there's any connection between a player who drinks and drives and a manager who does the exact same thing?

I don't. Do you really think that LaRussa is that big on an influence on his players (who are adults) that they drink and drive just because he does?